Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: ArtemisE

That doesn't really justify why they needed to continue expanding until they had Palestinians in 2 tiny prisons.

The 67 borders should have been fine. They should have made Jerusalem an independently controlled but integrated part of the country and kept those borders. Instead the kicked all of the Palestinians out of their homes. The first few years Jewish people and Palestinian lived peacefully side by side, but the government kicked them out after the war with Egypt and gave their homes to Jewish Israelis.

They DEFINITELY don not have as much claim as the people who can go and show you where they lived just 60 years ago. I think the Palestinians have more right to return to homes they were removed from in contemporary times than the Israelis who claim a right to return because they lived their 3000 years ago (and that is what they claim, not what you believe about the Ottoman empire). I sincerely doubt this is what anyone that allowed them to move there had in mind.

I too thought the Jews were just plopped there after WW2, but after some research you find out the ottamans sanctioned the Jewish community that still lives there today.... Now of course they didn't give them a country, but they did give them a couple villages. So IMHO they do have a right to be there just not the right to rule palistine.


I think we just had a perfect chance for peace. If palistine had publicly hung the people who kidnapped the 3 Jewish teens at the same time as Israel publicly hung the 3 Jews who burned the Arab kid alive. Then I think you could have used that as a platform to denounce civilian casualties on both sides.

Ps. I should add that I don't think the 3 murdered teens were sanctioned by Hamas leadrership. IMHO it screams low level knucklehead and an attack of oppertunity. No political figure wants dead teenagers on the news.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
If you really look back, it was the British who fired the first shot by declaring Palestine to be the new home of the Jewish.

It was the British imperialists who destroyed the middle east and broke it up into an un-natural group of states and provinces like happened everywhere else in the world, even north America.

The Palestinians occupy the same marginal area the Native Americans did, the indigenous population is being weeded out and assimilated.

The assimilation will not go well because, in truth, both groups are zealots and will fight for what they believe to be true even if it can be proven untrue.

It's a perfect plan to keep the chaos raging as there ain't no money to be made, no loans that need to be written (at least not really huge one's like for weapons) for either side...

It has nothing to do with God or religion or anything else but money, money, money money....

The banks are the problem, and just happen to operate on the British banking model and method....

a reply to: jheated5

It was the ottomans who gave the first Jews permission to settle there. The ottomans were very tolerant of other cultures..... Then the British doubled down and gave them a state.

a reply to: ArtemisE

They were plopped there after WW2. The Jewish population before 47 was a trickle and a tiny minority. They lived side by side at peace with the Palestinians.

It wasn't until after WW2 that they moved in en masse and formed an army and began kicking the peaceful Palestinians out of their homes (after they attacked Egypt and used that as an excuse to remove Palestinians).

I'm sorry but the fact is that the level of hatred on each side of this conflict is disgusting and people keep on denying it. Sure these people might be fine on thier own and as normal people without thier governments they might be friends even, but the way that both sides draw up such hatred and support thier perpetual conflict is the reason why it can continue.

If both sides woke up and properly looked at what has happened then and now, maybe the fighting would stop and people would realise how terrible the conflict is and that it should have drawn to.a close long ago.

This hatred I mean, you can't deny - how you see Facebook posts calling for genocide with thousands of likes how you see people sat on hills clapping and cheering as they watch people bombed to sh*** and the people on the streets calling for the whole of the other side to be stored to death under god's judgement.

If the hatred, indoctrination and propaganda could end then peace might have a chance.

A damn good chance at that.

The true explanation.
The people of the world are waking up to israeli terrorists lies, so the terrorists are going into overdrive with their propaganda campaign.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.
But I'm guessing the OP already knew this.
Soon.
My last thread explained why terrorists do what they do.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Israel was helped into Palestine (in 47 or so) where they quickly forced the Palestinians out of their homes, attacked anyone they thought might be a future threat without provocation, kept taking land, kept taking land, Arafat finally agreed to just keeping a tiny 20 percent of the country. Israel didn't respect that and started taking more while creating laws that only apply to Palestinians while Israeli Jews enjoy way more freedom and respect. Israel now continuously oppresses the Palestinians and tries to usurp their land.

The Palestinians shoot off little unguided rockets into the desert so they can try to get the worlds attention so they aren't forgotten to be oppressed in silence and have their land taken and people abused. It's not religious fanaticism or any attempt to win, it's just to bring attention to their plight.

If that sounds one sided it's because it is, it's the truth. One of the most militarily technologically advanced countries in the world oppressing poor people in a ghetto prison where Israel controls their supplies.

There now it's explained.

Not a bad response. So now my question to everyone else here.

Is this FACT or OPINION? I was under the impression Israel only "took land" as a bounty of a war started by the other side. Was I incorrect and is what he said true that they continued to invade Palestine territory that wasn't initially provided for them?

Yep.. its fact .. he has it correct ..

originally posted by: DodgyDawg
I'm sorry but the fact is that the level of hatred on each side of this conflict is disgusting and people keep on denying it. Sure these people might be fine on thier own and as normal people without thier governments they might be friends even, but the way that both sides draw up such hatred and support thier perpetual conflict is the reason why it can continue.

If both sides woke up and properly looked at what has happened then and now, maybe the fighting would stop and people would realise how terrible the conflict is and that it should have drawn to.a close long ago.

Here is a pretty fair understanding of the ongoing conflict.

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

originally posted by: Expat888

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Israel was helped into Palestine (in 47 or so) where they quickly forced the Palestinians out of their homes, attacked anyone they thought might be a future threat without provocation, kept taking land, kept taking land, Arafat finally agreed to just keeping a tiny 20 percent of the country. Israel didn't respect that and started taking more while creating laws that only apply to Palestinians while Israeli Jews enjoy way more freedom and respect. Israel now continuously oppresses the Palestinians and tries to usurp their land.

The Palestinians shoot off little unguided rockets into the desert so they can try to get the worlds attention so they aren't forgotten to be oppressed in silence and have their land taken and people abused. It's not religious fanaticism or any attempt to win, it's just to bring attention to their plight.

If that sounds one sided it's because it is, it's the truth. One of the most militarily technologically advanced countries in the world oppressing poor people in a ghetto prison where Israel controls their supplies.

There now it's explained.

Not a bad response. So now my question to everyone else here.

Is this FACT or OPINION? I was under the impression Israel only "took land" as a bounty of a war started by the other side. Was I incorrect and is what he said true that they continued to invade Palestine territory that wasn't initially provided for them?

Yep.. its fact .. he has it correct ..

This all started when the Israelis in the area decided to govern themselves, put an end to the total diaspora as a condition of their people and have a recognized state in their homeland.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

Are you saying that none of this happened before hamas?
Because I was under the impression it did.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
OK, I'm gonna fire away.

I believe that you are either a shill, or you need to do your own research before throwing a question like that out there.

Israel is obviously the agressor, and has followed the same style ever since they invaded the land of the Palestinians to which they had no right.

soulwaxer

a reply to: soulwaxer


Judah, father of the Jews, was born there. So how do you figure he has less right than the others in the area?

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

Are you saying that none of this happened before hamas?
Because I was under the impression it did.

Well you are certainly not saying the Hamas and Hezbollah are justified righteous warriors and really care about the land are you?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE



I'm sorry but if you are really implementing logic you would not have made this statement ''I personally believe that if there is a good and a bad side...Israel is the good and Palestine the bad. ''

The least you could have done would be to remain neutral and so you already reveal your underlying motives for your thread. I sure hope you are genuinely open to facts, because believe it or not the MSM are actually turning around and reporting the real facts of the terrible acts Israel is inflicting on Palestine, please view recent BBC news reports on the topic if you have the time for facts and logic.

Why are the MSM (specifically in the UK) now being more objective on this topic? We've just signed a 45k petition for the BBC news to conduct unbiased reporting on the topic where they deliberately conceal inconvenient truths on the whole fiasco.




www.youtube.com...

Now I do not condone the acts of Hamas, but let us be clear there is cause and effect, and Israel is the cause. Please educate yourself on what started this in the first place and Israel's conduct thus far (Google is your friend).

United Nations body are in full agreement that Israel are placing illegal settlements throughout Palestine, they are basically stealing Palestinian land.

So call surgical strikes made by Israel actually end up causing 80% civilian deaths, 4 children were bombed on the beach recently by an Israeli naval vessel.

Now Israel have the most advanced tech in the middle east I'M sure they can see clearly who is a target and who is not, there is no excuse for killing these four. The only conclusion is that it was deliberate, as the posed no threat and were in a wide open space devoid of any possible terrorist targets.

Now I can go on and on stating various fact's and figures, but we have all exhausted ourselves doing so and the information is out there in black and white, I know for sure that if you really wanted the truth you would have found it by now.

Most of the world is waking up now and supporting Gaza, from MSM media outlets to some of the biggest celebrity names on the planet.

The vast majority are now opposing Israel's occupation and genocide.

What many never take into consideration is that many of the folks living close to Israle are actually ancestry related.

They come from a nephew of Abraham and other relatives of Abraham beside Ismael, a brother of Jacob ect. What Iran's interest is in these folks fighting isn't really clear but certainly some sort of pathological race hate.

a reply to: Nikola014

Just because people don't want to accept that because they simply hate Jews, sorry, I meant Zionists, it doesn't change the fact that Israel have the full right to fight back

Doesn't the Palestinians have that right as well? Israel went into the West Bank and arrested hundreds of people for no reason what nation would stand by while hundreds of their people were being kidnapped?

Because, it's war, and in Gaza, what were people expecting when Hamas hides behind civilians.

These kids were playing on the beach there were no Hamas hiding behind them. Israel has always targeted civilians and has admitted it on occasion.

a reply to: Logarock

There is no hate, you want to make it look like it is a race hate that started this whole thing.

Quite the opposite, the hatred has understandably brewed over the several years of conflict SINCE Israel turned up in the middle east.

The middle east was getting along fine before then and there where jews and christians spread throughout, there were no problems between Jews and Arabs. Until Zionism came into play.

Please explain why there are several Jewish supporters who stand and protest in favour of Gaza and Palestine throughout the world, I'n the great demonstrations held throughout London.

They understand what their people are doing is wrong. Their leaders and the senior member who push this whole agenda are openly Atheist, they have no Jewish affiliation (religiously) what do they care for the land then?

It's absurd that you are quoting history from several centuries ago when it has no bearing on today's world whatsoever, it's meaningless... the main problems started when Israel decided to kick Palestine out of their land.

So don't tell ATS that the land is rightfully belonging to Israel because before the treaty was made to put them there they were open to accept any location in the world to set up their state. But Palestine agreed to lend open arms, before being pillaged and murdered for their generosity.

originally posted by: Logarock
What many never take into consideration is that many of the folks living close to Israle are actually ancestry related.

They come from a nephew of Abraham and other relatives of Abraham beside Ismael, a brother of Jacob ect. What Iran's interest is in these folks fighting isn't really clear but certainly some sort of pathological race hate.

The Palestinians living there are closer related to those people than the Europeans that have moved into Israel posing as Jews.
Also don't try to drag Iran into this because if they hated Jews so badly they show it very poorly seeing how Iran has one of the largest group of Jews outside of Israel. Not to mention they told Israel they would rather live in Iran than Israel because their faith isn't for sale. That should tell you something about the government running Israel.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

You say history has no bearing here and yet radicals have been desecration the centuries old landmarks around the area that show historical relevance to the Israelites.

As far a Zionism, I basically said that above. The locals don't want a self governing, self determining Jew but are fine with the diaspora. They will tolerate a Jew as long as he is second class, scattered, no nation ect and certainly don't come around here wanting to self govern in your old homeland.

The locals and the local powers remind me of american southern culture toward the blacks. Black mans fine as long as he's stepping and fetch 'in and the Jews are fine as long as they are acting in a similar cultural positron.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: skunkape23
I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

Nice try.

Fact is the Palestinians could live in peace just where they are but Hamas wont let them. They go starting fights that bring down the heat on their own people. All that has to happen for peace is for Hamas to stop with the rockets. Hamas however sees peace only in the destruction and deportation of Israle.

Are you saying that none of this happened before hamas?
Because I was under the impression it did.

Well you are certainly not saying the Hamas and Hezbollah are justified righteous warriors and really care about the land are you?

If one fights on their home soil, they are a freedom fighter.
If one invades another's land, they are a terrorist.
Is it really that hard to understand?
Currently just how many israeli citizens have been kidnapped from their homeland and are serving time in a Palestinian prison?
Now let's ask the same question the other way around.
Apologists and outright supporters of terrorism make me sick.
This will change though.
Soon.