Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

a reply to: dragonridr

But it also makes it easy to make people believe in things that might not be true.

originally posted by: WeZet
a reply to: DaFunk

I know... It's too late to act.

There never was a time to act, what are they gonna do, send in the KCT and have them conquer the crash site that is being held by Kossaks, in a Ukrainian warzone.

I think not. They have been powerless from the start and everything they say is bla bla as usual.

a reply to: roadgravel

Because they're undisciplined.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rigel4
Al Jazeera reporting that the flight data recorders have been found..
We're edging towards the truth here.

And why would the flight data recorders tell us anything other than what we know already. plane stopped working at a certain point on it's journey.
It's not going to tell us what hit the plane or who fired what at it. And i doubt very much that the pilots even had time to talk about what was going on.

Well for starters it could tell us if they were intentionally diverted off course.
It can tell us if other fighter aircraft were in the area.
It can tell us if the plane was under fighter escort.

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

originally posted by: ozwest
a reply to: bigfoot007

This thread is propaganda.

For who?

a reply to: Xcathdra

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

That´s funny cause I would think these are just angles any person seeking the thruth would entertain, not only "Pro Russians".

At least it is clear where you stand exactly.....

a reply to: DaFunk

They would never do it alone. It would have been a joint operation. I suspected this would be the perfect time for the US to intervene. If it was an American plane, we'd see boots on the ground by now anyway.

originally posted by: WeZet
a reply to: DaFunk

They would never do it alone. It would have been a joint operation. I suspected this would be the perfect time for the US to intervene. If it was an American plane, we'd see boots on the ground by now anyway.

I think, if that were the case we would be seeing a lot more things on the ground.

originally posted by: DaFunk
a reply to: dragonridr

The vehicle that is being obscured by the cover, is not the same vehicle as in those pics of the BUK.

This looks like an amfibious vehicle, look at the large section that is potruding from the front wheels, the BUK doesn't have that.

Correct if wrong.

there is two of them the first 3 pics look right since size and shape matches the forth picture however appears to be the second truck and looks to be a different vehicle. here this is in the article.

A second truck is also evident in some frames.
It was filmed at around 8.45pm on Saturday.
Reports from Ukraine suggested the BUK had been smuggled in the dead of night into Russia soon after the plane was blasted out of the sky on Thursday last week.
It came after images were released of a launcher rumbling through Torez, held by pro-Russian separatists, just two hours before the Malaysia Airlines flight was shot down.
In a tense phone call with Vladimir Putin, David Cameron said Russia would have to 'present compelling and credible evidence' that the Kremlin-backed separatists were not to blame for 298 people - including 10 Britons - being killed despite the images and footage.


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a reply to: bigfoot007

For weapons of mass destruction...

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: DaFunk
a reply to: dragonridr

I gurantee these things have been put through voice analysis background noise checks in fact Russia is as well we know this. And Russia would be the first to point out its fake so im sure the conversations happened at this point.

I didn't say the conversations didn't happen, I said they may have been distorted.

I am not sure what Russia would or should do about that right now, if true.

This is all speculation though.

What im saying is every intelligence agency on the globe is going through them if edited they could tell so it wasnt an edit. So then the only distortion possible is context and assuming the translations are right context seems pretty clear.

What on earth makes you think that an intelligence agency is going to give you the results of their analysis at all? Especially during an emergent situation, and this situation is still very much classed as emergent. They will give their analysis to their respective governments, who will analyze it in depth, before even considering handing the results out to the general public. That's not going to happen in the few short days its been so far.

originally posted by: DaFunk

originally posted by: WeZet
a reply to: DaFunk

They would never do it alone. It would have been a joint operation. I suspected this would be the perfect time for the US to intervene. If it was an American plane, we'd see boots on the ground by now anyway.

I think, if that were the case we would be seeing a lot more things on the ground.

I would be more concerned about the Dutch, who lost the largest bulk of citizens in the shoot down. Compound that with incompetent pro russian rebels who are more interested in destroying evidence and looting the bodies.

originally posted by: DaFunk
a reply to: Xcathdra

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

That´s funny cause I would think these are just angles any person seeking the thruth would entertain, not only "Pro Russians".

At least it is clear where you stand exactly.....

There is a difference between investigative theories and people desperately grasping for anything to shift focus away from the rebels / russians.

Since the pro russian rebels and russia are destroying the crime scene...............

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rigel4
Al Jazeera reporting that the flight data recorders have been found..
We're edging towards the truth here.

And why would the flight data recorders tell us anything other than what we know already. plane stopped working at a certain point on it's journey.
It's not going to tell us what hit the plane or who fired what at it. And i doubt very much that the pilots even had time to talk about what was going on.

Well for starters it could tell us if they were intentionally diverted off course.
It can tell us if other fighter aircraft were in the area.
It can tell us if the plane was under fighter escort.

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

Ukranian ATC logs, recordings and radar tapes can show us that also, I don't see them being asked for and published.

Are they any way LESS important than the black boxes?

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rigel4
Al Jazeera reporting that the flight data recorders have been found..
We're edging towards the truth here.

And why would the flight data recorders tell us anything other than what we know already. plane stopped working at a certain point on it's journey.
It's not going to tell us what hit the plane or who fired what at it. And i doubt very much that the pilots even had time to talk about what was going on.

Well for starters it could tell us if they were intentionally diverted off course.
It can tell us if other fighter aircraft were in the area.
It can tell us if the plane was under fighter escort.

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

Ukranian ATC logs and and radar tapes can show us that also, I don't see them being asked for and published.

I dont see anything where the items were requested and refused either.

Yes they are more important than the black box. The black box gives us the airplane stats in addition to cockpit communications. The radar intercepts give us direction, altitude, anything intercepting the aircraft, other unidentified aircraft in the vicinity and could show if more than one plane was present.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I get your overall message. The pro Russians are not being nice. I agree.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rigel4
Al Jazeera reporting that the flight data recorders have been found..
We're edging towards the truth here.

And why would the flight data recorders tell us anything other than what we know already. plane stopped working at a certain point on it's journey.
It's not going to tell us what hit the plane or who fired what at it. And i doubt very much that the pilots even had time to talk about what was going on.

Well for starters it could tell us if they were intentionally diverted off course.
It can tell us if other fighter aircraft were in the area.
It can tell us if the plane was under fighter escort.

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

Ukranian ATC logs and and radar tapes can show us that also, I don't see them being asked for and published.

I dont see anything where the items were requested and refused either.

What's wrong with simply handing them over without asking.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rigel4
Al Jazeera reporting that the flight data recorders have been found..
We're edging towards the truth here.

And why would the flight data recorders tell us anything other than what we know already. plane stopped working at a certain point on it's journey.
It's not going to tell us what hit the plane or who fired what at it. And i doubt very much that the pilots even had time to talk about what was going on.

Well for starters it could tell us if they were intentionally diverted off course.
It can tell us if other fighter aircraft were in the area.
It can tell us if the plane was under fighter escort.

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

Ukranian ATC logs and and radar tapes can show us that also, I don't see them being asked for and published.

I dont see anything where the items were requested and refused either.

What's wrong with simply handing them over without asking.

Because that is not the way criminal investigations work. Even more so when you have foreign nationals involved. If Ukraine ATC follows the same international standards in place, and depending on how their law enforcement system operates, the info is most likely locked down.

On the flip side how do we know they havent?

They probably have been handed over, to the relevant authorities. General public isn't normally classed as a relevant authority.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: rigel4
Al Jazeera reporting that the flight data recorders have been found..
We're edging towards the truth here.

And why would the flight data recorders tell us anything other than what we know already. plane stopped working at a certain point on it's journey.
It's not going to tell us what hit the plane or who fired what at it. And i doubt very much that the pilots even had time to talk about what was going on.

Well for starters it could tell us if they were intentionally diverted off course.
It can tell us if other fighter aircraft were in the area.
It can tell us if the plane was under fighter escort.

You know, all those things pro russians keep claiming yet can never support.

Ukranian ATC logs and and radar tapes can show us that also, I don't see them being asked for and published.

I dont see anything where the items were requested and refused either.

What's wrong with simply handing them over without asking.

Two who the separatists ? what could they do with it nothing. Unless you mean Russia even though there not supposed to be involved. But im pretty sure Russia would have to ask for them. And of course they dont want to because it doesnt look good to do so. So your throwing out a hypothetical argument as some kind of counter to facts being presented. And it has no basis in reality at all see countries share flight data all the time how do you think the tracking sites work when you can track aircraft in the first place.