"The Lost Forbidden Pit of Africa" Monster

It' been a while since i don't see a thread like this. I really liek cryptid dinosaurs, they are my favourite since ever.

Anyway native americans weren't wrong about the Okapi or the Mountain Gorillas, but their histories weren't actually true. According to them gorila rape women and ate men. But that was just a story.

My bet is that, if this creature ended up being real, it would be a small sized reptile.

originally posted by: Frocharocha
It' been a while since i don't see a thread like this. I really liek cryptid dinosaurs, they are my favourite since ever.

Anyway native americans weren't wrong about the Okapi or the Mountain Gorillas, but their histories weren't actually true. According to them gorila rape women and ate men. But that was just a story.

My bet is that, if this creature ended up being real, it would be a small sized reptile.

I believe you meant to say "Native Africans" as the Okapi and Mountain Gorillas are from Africa.

I agree though, that some of the legends are based on facts, but changed into a spooky story over time.

It is interesting to note that the mythical water spirit/serpent of the forbidden pit is similar to North American legends of an "underwater panther" or lynx that inhabits the watery underworld and is the enemy of the thunder bird air spirits.

I see your are in Brazil, I'm sure you have your share of monster stories from there. Perhaps you'll share some?

Yep, that is Lake Chilengwa on the google map, I checked it against the coordinates I found on a geological website.

Here is a screen shot of a super closeup of the forbidden pit on Google maps.



files.abovetopsecret.com...

If King Lewanika's story is to be believed, then I imagine that the Lengolengole (hippo sized marsh monster) was in the swamps between Lake Chilengwa and Lake Ishiku. However, his kingdom was more in western Zambia, with the forbidden pit at the edge of his territory, so an exact area will unlikely be found for these marshes.

Now I'm certain that the Lengolengole marsh monster was actually sighted in western Zambia near the Zambezi River, not near the forbidden pits.

I found this excellent book called "Mysterious Creatures: A Guide to Cryptozoology" at "books.google.com" by Googling "Lewanika Lengolengole zambia". It gives possible explanations for what the creature actually was (I like the rock python theory).

Here is some information that contradicts everything I've discovered so far and makes the king's story sound completely unrelated to the forbidden pit.

Isiququmadevu Dinosaur-like animal of central Afirca, similar to the Mokele-Mbembe. . . .
Variant names: Ig'ondotuya, Lengolengole, Lingongole.
Physical description: Length, 20 - 40 feet. Larger than an elephant. Head like a snake's. Long neck. Lizard like legs. Behavior: Amphibious.
Tracks: Makes wide furrows in the reeds and mud.
Habitat: Swamps, rivers.
Distribution: Zambezi River from the Barotse Floodplain to Victoria Falls, Zambia.
Significant sightings: Lewanika, king of the Barotsel in western Zambia in the early twentieth century, went to the spot where a huge, aquatic reptile had been seen. He found a large space where reeds had been flattened and a channel as large as a trek wagon where it had crawled through the mud.

In the southern summer of 1925, a river-transport manager named V. Pare saw a 30 to 40 foot, snake like animal with a slate gray head resting on a rock in the flooded Zambezi River near Victoria Falls, Zambia. It disappeared into a deep cave.

ETA: Notice how in this version of the king's story the area is different and it is a hear-say sighting of the actual monster, with the king only checking out the evidence left behind, ie. the "furrows" that seem much larger than in the first report I had.

I'm bothered by a couple of things about the king's story in relation to the European speculation populating Northern Rhodesia with relic dinosaurs.

In the description given above, "20 - 40 feet. Larger than an elephant. Head like a snake's. Long neck. Lizard like legs", not only has "larger than a hippo" turn into "larger than an elephant", but this totally describes a sauropod like a brontosaurus. Not only that, but a wide furrow created by a large animal crawling with "lizard-like limbs" sounds just like the early dinosaur skeleton reconstructions that had the legs splayed out like a lizard or crocodile has. The problem they had with that was the rib cage would have to occupy a trench in the floor to have the leg bones placed like that.

It seems likely that the original story from the king was blown way out of proportion into the dinosaur image popular at that time.

The African Rock Python (Python sebae sebae ) is, in my opinion, a good candidate for the origin of the Ichitapa pit monster myth.

Some information on the African Rock Python from wikipedia.

Africa’s largest snake species[4][10] and one of the world's largest,[8] the typical African rock python adult measures 4.8 m (16 ft). Rumors of specimens over 6 m (20 ft) are considered reliable, although larger specimens have never been confirmed.[11] Weights are reportedly in the range of 44 to 55 kg (97 to 121 lb), with a few weighing 91 kg (201 lb) or more.

Here is a gruesome tale of the first recorded incident of a large man-eating python in Africa. There is another recent article (not included here) about two young boys in Canada that were killed by an escaped pet rock python that was around 20 foot long.

"Hunt for giant snake that ate 10-year-old Durban boy whole"

A 20ft-long African rock python is being hunted by the police and snake catchers after it swallowed a 10-year-old boy near Durban, the first recorded "man-eating" incident for its species. For three hours other children hid up mango trees near the township of Lamontville, too terrified to flee, as the snake first trapped the young boy and squeezed the life out of him before consuming him whole. The hunt found no trace of the child, or his clothing, except for a trail of flattened grass leading down to a nearby stream.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Although the rock python lives in a variety of habitats, it prefers rocky areas near a water source, and so the forbidden pit sounds like the perfect area for it to live and grow to enormous size. Also, when the rivers and swamps flood, they are known to come out of hiding, contributing to the idea that this snake monster causes floods.

Imagine too, what a 30 plus foot rock python is capable of eating, if a 20 footer can swallow a 10 year old boy whole. I can see why the natives would fear the pit if they thought a monster python lived there.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I remember reading about this one, I think. A lot of people killed, I believe? Hole closed with explosives or something? If not, heck, there have to be two of them!

Always was an interesting read. Pinning down the location would be cool. At least a ballpark location could show if any other odd animal reports have come from that area.

Fascinating story, in any case, with so many that claimed to see it!

Alright, after a lot of reading, that is NOT the same story I read before. The one I read talked about a lot of people being killed by the thing, when it came out of the hole, or pit, or whatever, and I remember explosives being used. I can't for the life of me locate that story now, however! So, either it's another version of this one, or there is more than one tale of monsters from below out of Africa! if I can find the one I read before, will share the link. It's driving me a bit nuts now.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Thanks for bumping my thread Lady Green Eyes. I would be very interested in your story, it's sounds like they are connected.

At this point of my research, I think I have most of the facts straight now and have the right location.

I'm quite disappointed with the article by Mysterious Universe though for all the misinformation and hype. It did, however, open my eyes to the distortions and misinformation I've been finding in much of my research on any topic and it makes me more determined to dig down to the bottom and deny ignorance. For that I am grateful as well as for the imaginary African safari I went on when I looked into this.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Well, it was an interesting read! I can't for the life of me locate the other article. No idea where I read it. Probably bookmarked on the old HD, but that's no help. So many sites with stories, it's hard to locate sometimes. I am leaning towards thinking this was a crevasse of some sort, perhaps, instead of a "pit'. Not 100% sure, though. Still, they seem like they almost have to be related. The articles, though.......I don't remember seeing those before, which is odd, because I would swear there was an article copy attached to what I read way back whenever.

Gotta locate that one!

Hype is nothing new for such things. Some sites seem to thrive on it, and they end up making the whole subject frowned on as a result. Nothing new there, either, though, because some old publications would do the same thing, just for sales. *sigh* Still hunting when I have time. Will post if located. I just hope it wasn't on one of the sites I already looked at, and rewritten to be all hyped up pr something.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I found some good online resources during this one, I'll start digging based on your description. One of us will recover that story I feel certain.

Thanks for your interest and responses.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I hope so! I have always loved stories of "monsters", and it's making me nuts that I can't find this one. My older son recalls reading it as well. Have tried several crypto sites with no luck, and starting to think it was on some "general weirdness" sort of site instead. Even hunting for cryptids from Africa didn't help, though it can nake for interesting reading! Could have done without th giant spider reminders, of course.....*twitch*

I did some more digging for African monsters/dinosaurs and didn't find your story yet. I did find some more information on the Lengolengole swamp monster report by King Lewanika, and this one is different than the others. That indicates to me how much that story was distorted in the retelling.

chief Lewanika reported years ago to the British Resident in Zululand that a huge lizard, "ten times as big as a crocodile, which has made a trail in the reeds like that of a large trek-wagon from which the wheels had been removed " (he meant, made by something large dragged along, and the size of what to him was the familiar Boer veld wagon), and that he had given strict orders to his warriors to keep watch for the beast that he might see it for himself; but it was never seen again.

No less a personage than Lewanika, King of the Barotse, saw the beast in the marshes of his land, and set a special warrior watch to capture it. 'A monster,' says he in his official report to the British Government, 'with a head like a snake, making a huge track in the reeds as large as a full-sized wagon would make were its wheels removed.' He speaks of course, of the old Boer trek-wagon, a big, lumbering concern pulled by twenty or more oxen.

www.strangeark.com...

Hi,
I grew up in Ndola in 1956-58 and we went to the sinkhole for a family picnic. I don't remember any stories about monsters, but it was rumoured to be bottomless and connected to the river. In an attempt to find out how deep it was, railway tracks were supposed to have been lowered into the water (presumably on a cable), when they were pulled up there were all twisted.

Am I the only survivor from the monster?

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

this reminds me of the stories about Mokele-mbembe or as some call them dinosaurs.
i heard about this on a am radio talk show years ago. the story best to my recollection, was a team had heard about the sightings and went to check them out. first they stopped at a village to speak with the locals. they showed the pictures of different animals, and when the came to a picture of a Brontosaurus they all pointed at it saying that was it.
there is some speculation that it is a foklore and that they are really relating a rhino to it, although rhino haven't lived in the congo for a very long time.

i can't remember the name of the show or who the host was, but here are a few links starting with a wiki, cuase like i always say it's fast.

Mokele-mbembe
Mokele-Mbembe: The Search for a Living Dinosaur
Last Dinosaur of the CONGO

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
Here's a story I just found today about a dinosaur type monster that lived near a swamp in Africa. An explorer in the early 20th century claimed the natives believed that it lived in a giant sinkhole and they were forbidden to visit it. It lived in a pit but would come out to the swampland near by as well. With all the clues offered in a story that I can actually believe, I think I know just about where this "lost" pit actually was.

Here is a quote form the website . . .

In the early 1920s, several news publications of the time shed light on a curious location in Africa, . . . It was reported that in what was referred to as North Rhodesia, there was a mysterious pit in the ground measuring at least a hundred feet wide that the native Mashona and Matabele people of the area shunned, a place only known as The Forbidden Pit.

Yeah. Just leave it alone. Drop it completely. Whatever is there, IS there. They are the only reason why no diamond mining has happened there. Despite the potential "gold mine". Just leave it alone. Thanks.

It was said that the pit was home to some horrific, reptilian beast that would emerge to terrify the local tribes. Apparently somewhat like a dinosaur in appearance, the creature’s appetite was said to be ravenous, and that it would ferociously hunt and kill whatever it could catch, including human beings.

mysteriousuniverse.org...

The story was covered by a newspaper called the "New Zealand Guardian" in their October 17, 1925, issue. You can find the original source article called, "Mystery of Big Hole" "Pit in Darkest Africa" at this link.

paperspast.natlib.govt.nz...


Now where is this mysterious place in Africa with the forbidden pit? Here are all the clues I have found.

Firstly, the country said to have this pit was referred to as North Rhodesia, now present day Zambia.

The tribes in the area stated in the article were, The Mashona or Shona of Zimbabwe and Matabele of Rhodesia, and the Ila, who seemed to live the closest to this pit and the monster that lived there.

One tribe, the Ila, had allegedly become so distressed by the horror from the pit that a group of tribesmen were tied together and flung into the craggy black hole as a sacrifice in an attempt to appease the monster that lurked within.

The Ba-Ila tribe, inhabited the Kafue river valley in Zambia during the 1920s. The Kafue river is feed by the huge Lukanga Swamp, a primordial area indeed.

The following quote is from wikipedia . . .

The Lukanga Swamp . . . It then again develops intricate meanders and a maze of channels in a swampy floodplain, with oxbow lakes and lagoons. It flows 20 km west of the permanent part of the Lukanga Swamp which fills a circular depression, and which drains through a channel into the Kafue.

Also, the upper reaches of the Kafure river is a limestone karst area with numerous caves, under ground rivers and sinkholes. So many sinkholes that to this day they have a big problem with them.

So if some cave divers in Zambia, diving a sinkhole near the Kafue, fed by an underground river, find the bound bodies of human sacrifice victims, then they had better keep an eye out for the monster they were meant to feed.

This all leaves one to wonder, just what in the world was the Forbidden Pit of Africa? If these reports are to be believed, then is it still out there hidden away from the world in some remote place in Africa? We may never know. It seems that whatever these reports were describing, this monster infested pit is a place that has faded into a mere forgotten historical news curiosity.

I think it is still there, I know where the area is, and this sinkhole is probably known by both tourists and guides who may have even heard the story. IMO, if the author of this article would have dug just a little harder he never would have made that final statement at the end.

Hi. I'm new to ATS, but have a keen interest in the unknown. I recall reading an interesting theory about the Mkolo Mbembe. Theorized that the monster was an ancestral memory passed down from generation to generation regarding what we now call dinosaurs. There might possibly have been an overlap between the dinosaurs dying out and the emergence of human civilisation. Iirc, sightings were confirmed and verified by Western researchers up until the 1900s, after which they petered out to mere rumours and fearmongering. The current view is that the species, if it did survive until then, wasn't able to sustain itself into the new century. An interesting theory, but you couldn't pay me enough to set foot in those murky waters. a reply to: hounddoghowlie