Emergency Plan by UK Government spy on us.

Morning All,

The British government are going to rush through an emergency law so that Phone/Internet companies hold all peoples data, phone calls and internet usage for at least 12 months by individual. All parties already agree to the law being passed which is unusual in itself.

'The emergency legislation will oblige telecom firms to retain data for 12 months. Under the European law which it replaces companies could be asked to retain data for 24 months.'

www.bbc.co.uk...

What are all your thoughts on this, surely something as important as this should not be rushed and people should be given a choice on there own privacy?

a reply to: ksarge1

It's just ridiculous. I certainly dont want this. I just dont understand why people let the government do half the things they do. Everyone just turns a bling eye and bends over

As for choice. You know by now we dont get a choice in life. We get to choose our dictators but ultimately we do as we are told or go to prison.

Isnt life wonderful

What is interesting is that the so called "Snoopers Charter" was allegedly dropped due to the inability of service providers to properly fulfil their obligations as storing and "managing in a way that retains data integrity" on 12 mths of user data is not as easy as it sounds

If you are a medium sized ISP you are suddenly going to be hit with an additional 20-30 % cost of operation as there will need to be:

Adequate physical storage platform
The storage environment needs to be managed- probably by a DBA and his associated RDBMS software costs
The storage environment needs to be properly secured and the business will need to meet the regulatory requirements of storing the additional private data
Process will need to be developed for the overseeing and retrieval of stored data.

If you are BT this is probably do-able/you probably already do some of it....if you are any of the hundred or so other smaller ISP's in the UK; this might just put you out of business.

Soooo... we have a situation where an emergency piece of legislation is about to reduce the number of ISP's to one state controlled ISP within 5 years.

If this happens in the UK it is the end of any notion of electronic privacy.

You also have to wonder why it is suddenly so urgent that the UK government would want to completely monitor the main tool of citizen based dissent in the country!

If only you could write to your MP and expect anything to happen..instead he's too busy loosing files/ taking bribes/faking expenses/covering up for colleagues who are criminals themselves.

I think it is fair to say that if less than 1% of the population is involved in terrorism yet all need to be monitored; we have a very serious case for the tagging of all politicians and the installation of 24/7 video and audio monitoring on all institutions that accept taxpayer funding...how can that not be on the table if the monitoring of innocent citizens is??

a reply to: Jukiodone

I am in total agreement, in reality BT already provide the backbone of the UK communications network in regards to peering/exchanges/physical line (except for Virgin/Blueyonder lines). I also agree that the costs for this kind of monitoring would be astronomical as an addition, unless they already in essence have this readily available, some ISP/Comms companies actually know what they are doing and have likely predicted that the government would do something of this ilk. I personally think this absolutely smells of desperation by the UK government, and they are sending out a message to specific communication companies that released details of spying already in place, see below:

vodafone reveals secret wires allowing state surveillance

Just watching the BBC news, Cameron just said "I know as prime minister instances where it has stopped terrorism" Oh really? Well that's convenient, what were these incidents? Surely if the plot has been foiled thanks to mass surveillance then it's okay to disclose it to us now? It's not that I don't believe him... It's just I don't believe him and think there's ulterior motives at play.

I'll be surprised if it does only last 'til 2016.
But, I digress; It's an entirely predictable scenario we are entering and looking more and more like 1984 with each passing year.

a reply to: ksarge1

Well, they can keep this for as long as they like...

@ The Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

This new policy regarding internet usage monitoring and storage, is the most vile intrusion and misuse of the power vested in you by the people of these isles, that this modern age can allow for. Every Member of Parliament who voted for it is a traitor to the people of the United Kingdom, and is part of the problem, not its solution. The government must obey the people at all times, else we will be living in a dictatorship in a posh frock, and I for one cannot tolerate that.

I hope you are all very proud of yourselves, because you have done what two World Wars, and all the jihadists in the world could never have accomplished. You have installed a dictatorship by the back door, gone beyond the mandate given you to administrate on behalf of the people, by making choices that we do not agree with, and by refusing to accept the will of the people in matters pertaining to their liberty.

You are no longer valid leaders of this nation, and for all I know, may not have been since well before this issue came to the fore. In any case, you are enemies of the citizenry, and that places you in an unfortunate position, because you see, there are more of us, than there are of you. Invite our ire at your peril.

^ It's an arms race.

I'd guess that within 5 years there will be some sort of point to point real time encryption protocol that ensures there is no "unencrypted public data" for anyone to store.

The commercial desire (bearing in mind the spookier part of the UK govt doesnt always have domestic commercial interests at heart) would be massive with joe public following suit once pricing became accessible through mass adoption.

If Governments are not careful, pretty soon, MOST people will be living with dissident style mentalities; shunning government currency for alt currency and Government comms (i.e the old internet) for their own "darknets".

What's next in the line of dissident self sufficiency ...not paying taxes, civil disobedience etc etc

So let me get this straight....

The EU when it makes pedantic rules we the people have to follow that 100% cool and we have to follow the EU.

But when it makes rules the British government have to follow that they dont like then it ok to ignore them?

They've already been doing it for years....all they're doing now is 'legalising' it.

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: crazyewok

Its amazing how they can rush through legislation like this yet they point blank refuse to do anything about key matters that are of grave concern to many British people - continued membership of the EU and the ongoing open door immigration policy.

Makes you wonder if one of the deliberate aims of the recent revelations of a paedophile ring in Westminster in the 80's and the alarmism over home grown terrorists etc is to deflect away from current issues and to pave the way for increasingly draconian measures and intrusions on our civil liberties?

originally posted by: angelchemuel
They've already been doing it for years....all they're doing now is 'legalising' it.

Rainbows
Jane

I'm not sure if people are reading the news article, or the editorial posted in the OP. They aren't introducing this, they are actually continuing it. So.... it was already 'legal', just will remain so.

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: uncommitted

They are brining in an emergency law to continue snooping on the UK people, the EU had deemed this illegal and last time I looked UK was 'part' of the EU.
Its a disgrace whichever way you look at it really, and the government have about as much sense as a possible 'terrorist' that wouldn't use encryption and know that the internet & phone calls are monitored.

The British are growing very cold towards the government and the implications of the pedophile scandal are only just beginning to be felt. The economy is still crumbling and you have more and more open contempt and talk of dissent.

The path we are on is not sustainable eventually people will start to more than talk about dissent. However long it takes whether its 2, 5 or even 10 years mass unrest if not a full blown revolution/civil war seems inevitable and the politicians realize this, which is why they’re becoming so bold in their actions. The more they can do now the more likely they are to survive later.

As already mentioned, this is not something they can just switch on, it will need investment and a large increase in infrastructure to retain all the data. If the ISP's don't already have that in place, then how will this be achieved?

Maybe they'll contract out to somebody else, the NSA or GCHQ for instance, until the ISP's have the necessary infrastructure in place. Maybe BT has been building this in as part of their government contract to roll out broadband across the nation and into rural areas?

I just get the impression this was already planned long ago and they were just waiting for the right time to roll out the BS reasoning (which they can't go into detail about - National Security and all that!).

originally posted by: ksarge1
a reply to: uncommitted

They are brining in an emergency law to continue snooping on the UK people, the EU had deemed this illegal and last time I looked UK was 'part' of the EU.
Its a disgrace whichever way you look at it really, and the government have about as much sense as a possible 'terrorist' that wouldn't use encryption and know that the internet & phone calls are monitored.

No, read the article before responding. The law is in place, the EU wanted it removed. All three main political parties opposed following the EU line.

a reply to: uncommitted

So the European Court of Justice rules against the law 'European Court of Justice struck down existing powers', the UK come under the EU ruling. This means the UK have to pass a new law in an emergency meeting to keep on snooping. So what I was saying was right as it is a new law, anyhow the point of the matter is not whether the law has been re-applied, its about the deterioration of our civil liberties through the continued use of this law and the re-application of it. Something stinks I know that much.

originally posted by: ksarge1
a reply to: uncommitted

So the European Court of Justice rules against the law 'European Court of Justice struck down existing powers', the UK come under the EU ruling. This means the UK have to pass a new law in an emergency meeting to keep on snooping. So what I was saying was right as it is a new law, anyhow the point of the matter is not whether the law has been re-applied, its about the deterioration of our civil liberties through the continued use of this law and the re-application of it. Something stinks I know that much.

Ok, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I wish I was sometimes. 'The EU CoJ struck down existing powers' means by virtue of that, the powers already existed. The new law is not to add additional powers, it's to maintain ones already in place - that means nothing new has been added. Is that better?

I'm not sure about how your civil liberties are affected, what did you think they were in the first place?

a reply to: uncommitted

That's better, now we have that cleared up.

A right to privacy by any chance? No Chance and no option by the looks of it.

a reply to: ksarge1

Its all bs.

If they know who the people are that they need to monitor, why does it need to be rolled out to the entire population?

originally posted by: ksarge1
a reply to: uncommitted

That's better, now we have that cleared up.

A right to privacy by any chance? No Chance and no option by the looks of it.

Depends. If you want to be cynical it means they can read all of your email and listen in to any of your calls.

In reality they can see who you exchanged mails with and the number you called on your phone (assuming your phone is associated with you by contract). Anything additional to that requires what's called a 'legal intercept'.

If you truly believe that this is any different to what has been available for a long, long time then I'm afraid that's naive. For email, your ISP has this data, your email provider has this data. If you are using a landline then the number you called (but not the content of the call and I think that is still the case) has been around all along. If you are using a mobile phone then the number you called/received and how long you were on the phone with them is again, nothing new - check your mobile bill against calls made/received. The content of the call/email is where it comes to the 'legal intercept' piece, and for email that is nothing that couldn't have been done by your ISP/email provider before, and would have likewise been the subject of a court request for it to be made available to the authorities.