LGBT ... And My Personal Brick Wall

Every single person that has ever "found out" about me has said "but, you don't 'act gay.'"

I'm not in the habit of attending Pride celebrations, I don't have single thing in rainbow (although, I like rainbows well enough) and I found the gay bar scene utterly appalling, even when younger.

For those on both "sides" of this issue, I always try to point out that referring to others as "the gays" can easily divorce them from their basic humanity. On the other hand, the way we're wired to respond to others emotionally, physically, and intellectually does create more of an impact on our identities than say our eye color, or handedness.

I always try (and fail, I know) to show that we are all Humans first, Americans (or whatever nationality) second, those are the "meat and potatoes" if you will, and all the various unique characteristics that make us who we are can be seen as the seasoning ... LOL. It may be time for lunch.

It is my own experience and my firm belief based on scientific studies I've read as well as innumerable personal testimony and anecdotes that we "are who we are" from a very early age. Kids may have some questions in the future about whether they "should" like one sex or another, but, in the final analysis, any confusion will vaporize when the hormones kick in ... of course, we may have to accept that bisexuality is far more common in occurrence that was previously known.

My personal $0.02 ...

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I see in the news that Burger King is wrapping their whoppers in rainbow paper to show solidarity with the LGBT community. I'm the first one to stand up and say that I AM an ally. A very strong one. But even I found this patronizing and weird.

Well...it was in San Francisco, right?

They most likely sold out... great ad campaign.

That survey seems dumb. My whole theory on this is that everyone is bi, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone finds everyone else attractive. It just means they're open to the idea with the right person, but there's a lot in society that vehemently deny anything outside of hetero attraction. The concept of being an ally is ridiculous, I wouldn't say I'm an ally of them on that survey either.

My best friend is a lesbian, I've known many gays. I have no problem with any of them. I do however, have a big problem with the super flamboyant motif that's associated with gay pride. The whole thing exists to sexualize the issue and make bigots react (or label people who don't want to see that as bigots). It does them a disservice in the end. Hetero or homo people are people... same organs, same skin, same blood, same general life experiences, same hopes for the future and that flamboyant atmosphere takes away from just making that point.

Personally, I see that look about on par as a gang banger look in terms of social status. Maybe that makes me a bigot in some peoples eyes or maybe it means that because I'm not prejudiced against them I simply expect them to act and dress like productive members of society just the same as all those people in society they're trying to get acceptance from.

Come to think of it, the first three questions of the survey concerning disability are also quite enigmatic. It is almost as though the survey is designed as an experiment to test reality constructs and engage with a type of group "thought architecture". It is focusing in on individual's prevalent unconscious thoughts related to our society's assumptions concerning the political and cultural acceptability of specific groups of people in our population. Open discussions about such topics as persons with disabilities and/or alternative sexuality are usually quite constrained by convention and taboo.

I guess it is important to overcome such taboos...

Because words DO matter. Marriage is a religious term a religious insitution. Call it something else if it doesnt matter to you. It does mean something to us. It is in the definition and what it means in context. You cannot understand it because you only see it from a secularview and ignore what we say.
For example. If we engagein battle, even an arg online and i declareto you "i give no quarter" it is a nautical term. Ifyou decide i state i amnotgoing to give you any changein my pocket you would be attempting to redefine what i said to fit your own perception. We donot want it redefined. Its a religious term, a religious institution.a reply to: mOjOm

originally posted by: manna2
Because words DO matter. Marriage is a religious term a religious insitution. Call it something else if it doesnt matter to you. It does mean something to us. It is in the definition and what it means in context. You cannot understand it because you only see it from a secularview and ignore what we say.

But Religions don't even all agree upon the same terms to define Marriage. Some religions say it is a union between one man and one woman. Some religions say it is a union between one man and a number of women. Some religions define that union as the wife being property of the man while others don't. Some religions define marriage as being an unbreakable union once established while others allow for divorce. These are but only a few differences in how Marriage is Defined within Religion. So you can see without even getting into secular definitions there are already various definitions, concepts, terms and conditions which can apply. Yet, regardless of whether or not they all define marriage in the same way with the same properties, they are all still called marriage. So why should it be any different for other types of marriage both religious or non-religious???

Just because "it doesn't matter to me personally" because of my secular perspective of things doesn't mean "i cannot understand it". In fact just the opposite is true. I understand your perspective on it just fine just like I understand all the other various perspectives on it. Because of my secular view I'm able to view it without bias toward any one perspective allowing me to understand it better than you'll ever know or admit to. Saying I cannot understand it is just a way for you to dismiss me and my argument because it challenges yours, but I can say the same thing to you as well, but that hardly makes it true in either of our cases now does it??

a reply to: Snarl

Just the fact you struggle with this shows the quality of your character. The best people I have found in life are harder on themselves than anyone else ever could be. We would adopt you and your family into ours any day, but you probably wouldn't want anything to do with us! lol

Don't let anyone pigeonhole you, and definitely don't let anyone decide where you stand on anything based on a survey. I on the other hand I write the surveys and "Survey Says" you are just peachy.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Thanks, brother. I intended to come back and put my thoughts in order here.

I should first say I appreciate all the input on this thread and for the PMs. The honesty and diversity really helped.

People are people. Their differences can be far more subtle than the obvious contrast you find in comparing a male to a female. No one pointed out the obvious: Men and women can manage to get along ... so why can't everyone in-between. It makes no sense to me.

So I'm going to refuse the survey. When it comes, I will resign/retire in protest. That's not an option everyone has. Rather than being a PC stooge, I'll take one for the team ... because I can. I faded away once. Let's see what happens this time.

a reply to: Snarl

I'll attempt to go there! Of course, I can only speak from my own perspective and experiences and many may disagree with my point of view on homosexuality and other variations of human sexuality.

I think Sigmund Freud was largely correct when he latched on to his theory of the libido and repression to explain neuroses and a wide range of sexual deviations. The mainstream LGBT take on homosexuality is that people are just born that way. I disagree. I think there are some genetic quirks that pop up involving the X and Y chromosomes in boys and girls that can have an effect on their sexuality, but largely I think psychological factors, particularly in the first four years of one's life, have the strongest effect on how one develops sexually. Other social factors play a vital role in determining how an individual "ends up", regardless of how they are "supposed to be" as dictated by certain cultural traditions. There can be many ridiculous contradictions.

Religion is hands-down the strongest influence on the development of the individual, and in the west Christianity has been the predominant one - especially in America. Misinterpretations from a re-translation of a re-translation of a collection of stories put together for a group of people way over on another part of the Earth a couple thousand years ago, stories taught from the bible have all kinds of morals and ethics applied to people in the 21st Century which just no longer work. Not only does Christianity cast women in a negative light as being the ones who screwed everything up in the beginning, but there are also teachings such as "no sex before marriage" and "man shall not lieth with other men" that are wreaking absolute havoc on the psychosexual dynamics of modern humanity. I should also point out that the divorce rate for male and female married couples in the United States is 50%. I am not sure about the statistics on gay marriages ending in divorce, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same (or even higher).

Not only are there hundreds of different Christian denominations, but the world itself is a melting pot for thousands of different competing ideologies that are also wreaking holy havoc. A really good word to describe this overall situation is "balkanization":

Balkanization, or Balkanisation, is a geopolitical term, originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or non-cooperative with one another.

So an easier way of putting it is that it's increasingly more difficult for humans to see eye to eye on a variety of different political issues. Overpopulation is largely responsible for the general chaos in the world, from the destruction of the environment to just generally getting on each other's nerves. There are bound to be more and more maladjusted people as a result with a wide variety of mental health problems, sexual quirks and outright perversions.

In my personal opinion, homosexuality could be seen as a response to overpopulation, since gay people are not biologically able to reproduce. I see that as a very good thing!

Double post

originally posted by: Snarl
So I'm going to refuse the survey. When it comes, I will resign/retire in protest. That's not an option everyone has. Rather than being a PC stooge, I'll take one for the team ... because I can. I faded away once. Let's see what happens this time.

I consider myself to be a pro gay rights kinda guy, but not devoted enough to memorise the latest iteration of the 'queer' alphabet-identification. That being said, I would refuse to take the poll on the basis of privacy issues. Not their business. Up here, that would work...mind you, there are very few circumstances when your employer can demand a urine test, either. Which all goes to say that freedoms are relative.

a reply to: corsair00

... I can only speak from my own perspective and experiences and many may disagree with my point of view ...

It's hard to disagree with personal perspective and experience. Someone may have experienced something different and developed an anecdotal perspective. No 'one size' is going to define this mould ... or it probably would be defined by now.

My take on why someone is the way they are is simply that they've found their place in the mould ... all squished in with everyone else. That place they wind up in is where they're most comfortable. The place where they meet the least amount of resistance. Like you, I believe there are a variety of ways one eventually winds up one way or the other, but active choice seems to have little to do with what winds up to the right of the = sign.

As for religion, we're pretty much on the same sheet of music. I don't disparage religious studies, but one must understand pen was put to paper by the hand of man ... and I can pretty much assure you there was no divine influence in the way ink spilled onto parchment. I'll leave it at that in this thread.

I should also point out that the divorce rate for male and female married couples in the United States is 50%.

I've seen that stat too. What I don't see ... are half the people I meet who have been married anywhere near as long as my wife and I have been. I honestly don't believe that number is that low, but it all depends on how you look at the numbers.

-Cheers