Birmingham shooting: Man killed in Sparkbrook, two seriously injured

I couldn't imagine living over there where only criminals can have the real weapons.
You folks across the pond do have nerves of steel.

originally posted by: g146541
I couldn't imagine living over there where only criminals can have the real weapons.
You folks across the pond do have nerves of steel.

The thing is gun crime is extremely rare. thats why its made ATS and the main news.

Very very very few criminals have guns here and normally are only used in extreme circumstances.

Thats not saying the the USA is wrong to have lax gun laws, just its very different here.

Yes I agree this is big news over here...murder is.

We can have guns Iam sick to death of telling folk this and have gunsmiths.

www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk...

I know many whom have one for sport or farming etc.

But as a society we just don't want them, after tragedies like Dunblane the public overwhelmingly wanted more gun control and it was passed.

en.wikipedia.org...

We get you guys in the states love your guns but we don't and we don't have many wild critters around which can harm us.
But remember this we Brits have overthrown Governments and kings here and If push came to shove we would do it again so don't start saying we have not the means to do so.

Heck gun crime? better gun crime in Moss side in the early 90's...now not so much.
Anyhow 3 down 9 to go chin chin.

I'd just like to say to blupblup that I fully appreciated your posts and I thought that they were well reasoned, I disagree that you were hostile in any way.

I am happy that gun crime in our country is so low, and I'm also proud that our Police aren't routinely armed. I don't understand why some Americans don't believe that the relaxed gun laws aren't the reason for high murder rates, it clearly is. I just wouldn't feel comfortable if every man and his dog on my estate owned a gun.

I respect America and her amendment's and all that, I like the tradition and pride it must bring, gun's just aren't for me, if I catch someone breaking into my house or car, I'll bang them clean out and hand them over to the Police, I wouldn't kill them.

I see that the victim has been named, and by the look of it he's a Muslim. It'll be something to do with drugs or gangs, I live in Bradford, it's become a cesspit because of Muslim gangs dealing smack and carrying some heinous crimes. If the chap is innocent then I will apologise, but you just don't get shot and killed in this country for nothing, well very rarely anyway.

originally posted by: blupblup

We had 551 homicides last year.... of which Knifes and other sharp instruments, such as broken bottles, made up the largest proportion of weapons involved in offences currently recorded as homicides at 35% of the total, down slightly on the previous year's 39%.

There were 9.7 Homicide offences per million in the population. Children under one had the highest victimisation rate at 30 offences per million in the population.

However, homicide still remains at a very low rate in comparison to other causes of death.
Violent crime has decreased by 13% over the past five years.


The US by contrast had 14,827 homicides with 4.7 per 100,000... which is staggeringly larger than the UK figures.
With 67% being by gun and 13% by Knives or cutting instruments.
The difference is just phenomenal though... the US is roughly 5 times the size UK and yet your homicide rate is stupidly higher, about 26 times higher.

There is no comparison, yes more people gets stabbed as a percentage in the UK and more get shot in the US.
But 26 times more people die in the US.

It's utterly insane.

You guys kill each other... A LOT more than we do.
And you know why that is? It's really easy...

GUNS.

You have the right victim totals, but the math you used to reach the '46x more likely' comment in regards to homicide rate is incorrect.

Oh, and do you have 13.6% of your population committing over half of the homicides? FBI Data

originally posted by: yorkshireman
I'd just like to say to blupblup that I fully appreciated your posts and I thought that they were well reasoned, I disagree that you were hostile in any way.

I think the poster replied to crazyewok, not me... but still - May have been meant for me.
I'm always very sarcastic and dry, but very rarely hostile.

originally posted by: Lipton

You have the right victim totals, but the math you used to reach the '46x more likely' comment in regards to homicide rate is incorrect.

I said 26 times not 46, maybe it's not my math but your reading skills that aren't up to the job?

originally posted by: blupblup
I said 26 times not 46, maybe it's not my math but your reading skills that aren't up to the job?

What's worse, me misquoting you, or you posting incorrect data?

We had 551 homicides last year / 9.7 per 1,000,000

US by contrast had 14,827 homicides / 4.7 per 100,000...(or 47 per 1,000,000)

UK and yet your homicide rate is stupidly higher, about 26 times higher.

a reply to: blupblup

Did you mean totals and not per capita?

Your 4.8 times more likely to be killed, not 26

And again, you ignore the fact that wee have a small segment of the population that commits over half of those homicides.

a reply to: Lipton


Well what do I know eh? I was rushing around, trying to post.
My bad.

I apologise.

Just ignore me I had lost of tabs open and had all kinds of figures.

Just found one I bookmarked but didn't use.

Murders with firearms:

UK - 14 - Ranked 39th.
US - 9,369 - Ranked 4th
669 times more than United Kingdom



Murders:

UK - 722 - Ranked 34th.
US - 12,996 - Ranked 9th.
18 times more than United Kingdom

www.nationmaster.com...


So my figures may not have been accurate originally (or my maths) because I was using several sources, but those figure are a lot closer to what I was saying originally.

originally posted by: blupblup
Well what do I know eh? I was rushing around, trying to post.
My bad.

I apologise.

No worries.

a reply to: Skorpy

Or what, you'll shoot him?

Sorry, left yourself wide open there and, to be honest, you deserved what crazy said as you clearly don't understand what the figures mean.

As for the OP - not sure this qualifies as "civil unrest" although as pointed out earlier, a gathering this large with the intention of causing violence could be classified as a riot, be it against the Government or a rival gang.

Personally, I don't think this is anything new - gangs of lads have been meeting and fighting each other for centuries. It just seems lately(over the past decade or so) the "rules" have changed. Now you can use weapons, kick a man when he's down and gang up against one guy with dozens, rather than go 1 v 1.

originally posted by: g146541
I couldn't imagine living over there where only criminals can have the real weapons.
You folks across the pond do have nerves of steel.

Again, as pointed out in this thread an every other thread where guns and the UK are concerned, we can legally own firearms in the UK! There was never a massive gun culture when regulation was lax and even when our Police were routinely armed (up until the 60's?) they rarely took them out with them.

This could be the start of something not very nice !
Last time we had large scale civil unrest in this Country, was because a known drug dealer who was believed to be armed, was shot and killed by police, and his community wanted answers and it all kicked off.

This is what looks like two rival muslim gangs, now it could be drug turf or whatever, or it could be something else that muslims fall out with each other about, but what concerns me the most, is that we have just tightened up security at the airports.

I will be keeping a close eye on this .

I don't think any of you have been listening to the news reports over this incident. They stated that the authorities have got together the leaders of the different FAITHS. That in my opinion smacks of a religious overtone. Also they are asking those said religious leaders to appeal to the families to control the situation. Now you don't have to be Clarke Kent to read under the radar to what is happening in that area.

a reply to: crayzeed

It's been happening for years... Nothing new, really.

In 2001, there was so much tension between different races/religions, it spilt over into actually rioting. I think that was all kicked off over a rape allegation between a group of Asian and Black youths. Before long, white groups got sucked in and, in the end, I believe it was primarily the white/black/Sikh communities facing off against the Muslim community.

a reply to: stumason
Go back further to the Handsworth riots. Supposedly over a black youth stopped and searched coming out of a cafe. It wasn't of course reported that nearly all the commercial premises that got burnt out were owned by Indians and the West Indian premises were hardly touched. Also the final bill ran into the multi million pounds yet only a few people got slapped on the wrist.

The dead man has been named as Ikram Elahi.

www.bbc.co.uk...

It seems violent confrontations between different groups is something of a regular occurrence in this area, just not usually anything quite as violent as this.

Violent confrontations between rival groups / youths etc has been part of British life for literally hundreds of years but I've got to say this does have a somewhat different feel to it - could easily be wrong though.

a reply to: stumason

..... I believe it was primarily the white/black/Sikh communities facing off against the Muslim community.

Something that is becoming increasingly common throughout the UK.

I've even heard of there being violent clashes in parts of London between the established Afro-Caribbean communities and those from the relatively recent influx of immigrants from Sudan etc.

People can make of that what they will - one things for certain, it doesn't get reported in MSM and when it does its certainly not discussed in an open and frank manner.

As for the UK / US gun death thing - think blup pretty much nailed it.....but how many times do we have to go over the same old stuff?

Only just got time to sit and reply to this.
More guns in the UK is something I really dont like, little scum bags thinking they are big men because they have a gun.

When I was a child growing up in England the last Friday before schools broke up for summer would involve a similar number of kids meeting at a field or park and having a big fight. A gun just would not of been considered if someone brought a knife or bat they would of received abuse from his own group as this would of been seen as a weakness.

Few blacks eyes and broken noses, truth be told there were more broken fingers caused by excited punching rather than effective proper punches.
Point being everyone went home after I was and still am friends with people form what were rival schools, nothing to it but some bragging rights till the next year.
Kids fight that is natural guns are not.