The Coming Caliphate who will it Love?

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: BobAthome

because its the same God who says, its ok to kill non muslims,,according to Muslim Spiritual Law.which comes from God,,
then in the breath God,,says "thou shalt not kill"

I think there is 2 Gods at play here, and there can be only ONE God.
seems everyone is agreed on the One part.

geez, not everybody....why?...because these god(s) are MYTHICAL....made up in peoples minds for a multitude of reasons. remember that when these religions came into being, the world was flat, earth was the center of the universe, and man was ignorant and barbaric to the point that gods had to be created just to explain natural occurrences. these were ignorant people.

a reply to: OpinionatedB the problem i see with all that killing you mention is that there is always a killer left alive. I agree with your post though i do see it as a conundrum.

a reply to: jimmyx You assume everything in your post because someone told you that. Much of what you say is just opinion and likely not a true picture of times past.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere It is on topic enough to discuss and for you to give a yes or no answer. The fact that you dodge tells me that you don't want to face the fact that you are in love with a religion that is doing the things i mentioned. Ignoring those things will not change what is happening but only serve to keep you on the path of indirectly supporting those actions.

I am not dogeing any of your questions.

1 . do you have spasfic queations? Ill be happy to answer.

2. I really wish to stay on topic , because this thread is not about me andb what "I" believe.

3. Reguardless of howmany times i prove to you your understanding of Islam is inncorect , you will continue to try and negate anything I say. ...so what's the point ?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: jimmyx You assume everything in your post because someone told you that. Much of what you say is just opinion and likely not a true picture of times past.

Oh the irony !!

Likewise with your assumption about Islam..

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: Wrabbit2000
the ISIS are a threat to both shia and sunni . watch the video I posted.
I haven't ever been "condition or traind " to hate shia ?
This of your opinion.
I don't know anything about them really, and I surely have not heard any of my imams talking bad about them?

yes I commend this. This is the truth. They are enemies of Islam. Western media and governments are trying to focus on sectarian issues. They want to pretend that this is a sectarian war. But this is nothing but neocolonialism. They want to split Iraq, this is a map to the idea of "great middle east" which Susan rice mentioned.
If you remember Israel attacked Gaza and they killed Sunnis in 22 day war then they attacked Lebanon and they killed Shias in 33 day war. Amazingly the Saud tribe just sat and watched even when Sunnis were killed in Gaza. This is the international Zhionism. They understood that they could not fight with muslims face in face So now they are using their extremism soldiers to ruin muslims from within. Their aim is just to make a safe area for Israel. They want to split Iraq.
And of course Sunnis are fighting against this terrorists in Iraq too.
These are all the old aim of "great middle east". They want to change middle east for the sake of their own benefits.
However I believe the ultimate solution to get rid of Khawarijes for ever and unity of muslims is nothing but son of Ali, Mahdi.

originally posted by: maes2

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: Wrabbit2000
the ISIS are a threat to both shia and sunni . watch the video I posted.
I haven't ever been "condition or traind " to hate shia ?
This of your opinion.
I don't know anything about them really, and I surely have not heard any of my imams talking bad about them?

yes I commend this. This is the truth. They are enemies of Islam. Western media and governments are trying to focus on sectarian issues. They want to pretend that this is a sectarian war. But this is nothing but neocolonialism. They want to split Iraq, this is a map to the idea of "great middle east" which Susan rice mentioned.
If you remember Israel attacked Gaza and they killed Sunnis in 22 day war then they attacked Lebanon and they killed Shias in 33 day war. Amazingly the Saud tribe just sat and watched even when Sunnis were killed in Gaza. This is the international Zhionism. They understood that they could not fight with muslims face in face So now they are using their extremism soldiers to ruin muslims from within. Their aim is just to make a safe area for Israel. They want to split Iraq.
And of course Sunnis are fighting against this terrorists in Iraq too.
These are all the old aim of "great middle east". They want to change middle east for the sake of their own benefits.
However I believe the ultimate solution to get rid of Khawarijes for ever and unity of muslims is nothing but son of Ali, Mahdi.

Finally!! Someone who is on my page !

Your 100% correct!

I should have explained this many pages ago.....

Indeed the khuawarij need to be re educated ...

But that's a jihad in its self.

Thanks for posting!

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere Honestly the point is that thousands are being killed,kidnapped,mutulated and oppressed in the name of your god while you cling to the thought that everyone that reads the same words you do and find the push for this violence within is just getting it wrong. It seems that you cling to the parts that serve your heart and not seeing the total intent found within the religion. perhaps on some level we do not understand all the violence is justified by the spirit but i just don't want to believe that.

a reply to: Willtell

OpinionatedB posted a link to one of the works of al-Bana, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. The words are his, not OB's. as such, I fail to see how that poster could have it "all wrong", having nether written the tract, translate it, nor embraced that philosophy.

If you feel someone has it "all wrong", that should probably be directed at Hassan al-Bana, and by extension his followers.

You are correct, however, when you say "These modern day Jihadists are just cultists used by political tricksters manipulating the Arab countries for their own cause."

That is PRECISELY the situation with the Muslim Brotherhood, a political organization manipulating ignorant cultists in order to gain political power for themselves.

I must take issue with your following statement, however, which was:

"They are useful idiots for Israel and neocon plots. "

Neither Israelis nor neocons twisted the arms of al-Bana or al-Wahhab. That's all on them, and their faulty interpretation of Islam. Trying to lay the blame at the doorstep of another is merely trying to excuse them, obfuscate the issue, and blow smoke up the world's collective ass.

a reply to: maes2

It will take everyone participating to get rid of them. And it wont be through polemics, as that has been tried.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere Honestly the point is that thousands are being killed,kidnapped,mutulated and oppressed in the name of your god while you cling to the thought that everyone that reads the same words you do and find the push for this violence within is just getting it wrong. It seems that you cling to the parts that serve your heart and not seeing the total intent found within the religion. perhaps on some level we do not understand all the violence is justified by the spirit but i just don't want to believe that.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

Everything your saying is contradictory to what I have been saying.

Please review

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: dawnstar

But if the majority of the people we bring it to want to use it to bring in another form of gov't- call it caliphate or whatever doesn't democracy determine that the majority rules as long as the basic rights of the minority are preserved?

No.

"Democracy" is flat out majority rule, and cares not a fig for the rights of minorities.

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and flung a star at you for it.

a reply to: nenothtu

You are correct, however, when you say "These modern day Jihadists are just cultists used by political tricksters manipulating the Arab countries for their own cause."

That is PRECISELY the situation with the Muslim Brotherhood, a political organization manipulating ignorant cultists in order to gain political power for themselves.

I must take issue with your following statement, however, which was:

"They are useful idiots for Israel and neocon plots. "

Neither Israelis nor neocons twisted the arms of al-Bana or al-Wahhab. That's all on them, and their faulty interpretation of Islam. Trying to lay the blame at the doorstep of another is merely trying to excuse them, obfuscate the issue, and blow smoke up the world's collective ass.

I agree with this . it is all about their interpretation of Islam. This is a big problem within this religion.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere No that is the problem with islam. No other religions are being misinterputed on the level that islam is. It is no lie that terrorist are mainly muslim. One can deduct from that that something is wrong with the source or everyone is just wrong that violence is a bad thing.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere No that is the problem with islam. No other religions are being misinterputed on the level that islam is. It is no lie that terrorist are mainly muslim. One can deduct from that that something is wrong with the source or everyone is just wrong that violence is a bad thing.

OK so what's your point ? What are you trying to convey to me?

Here is my quote from another thread .

Maybe this will help you understand my stance on Islam .

You know OP your doing exactly what "Terriorist " do , miss interpret scripture..

I am an American Muslim convert.

And I recall prior to becoming disgusted by Islam after 9/11 , but i was sick of hearing from other people (not Muslims) about Islam.

So i did exactly what you said in your OP ..i started reading the quran... So long story short i was amazed to find out 99.9% of all the stuff i heard about Islam was ......FALSE!

People use innovation in place of things they don't understand... This is a big problem in Islam ..even Muslims do this..

This causes sects, and terroir cells.. Its disgusting .


I am not here to debate with anyone about Islam , frankly I am sick of trying to explain to Ignorant people who refuse to pick up the book or research for them self's.


Islam is strict, yes , its ment to keep you on a straight path and focused on GOD EVERYDAY.

Its almost like living the life of a monk or priest ..

The reward is a life of positivity and free from negitve temptation. And most of all an understanding of love and compassion.

Some people view this as oppression...

to be Muslim means to Summit your will to god I ask you how can you force anyone to submit their will to god?

Unfortunately we have extremist in this religion. But they are small in number , the number of Muslims who are not extreme is far greater.

Any Muslim trying to establish Sharia law in non Muslim lands is completely WRONG. It is of the understanding that if Muslims want to live by sharia then they need to move to a country that has sharia law.

:side note: Christians &Jews are protected under sharia law :


Well I don't know what els to say really, I am sure I'll get lots of non Muslim scholars replying to this trying to refute anything I say.

My advice would be to simply be open minded and research for your self.

Oh and here is a good understanding of the verse you posted.


Some non-Muslims either through ignorance or Islam-bashing continue taking the verses of the Holy Quran out of context and its history to justify their false propaganda. In order to gain a proper understanding of many  verses in the Holy Quran, it is important to understand and know the historic context of the revelations. So many revelations in the Holy Quran came down to provide guidance to Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and the fellow Muslims based on what they were confronting at that time. The verse 8:12 is one such verse which is misinterpreted. The verse and its brief explanation follows:

008.012  Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you:
give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers:
smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."


This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

And when you fight, you strive to kill the enemy during the fight.
However, even during the war, Islam has the highest moral law of war. You don't kill children, women or any one who is not fighting with you.

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

You say my "words and feeling aid the enemy" who's the enemy?
And don't make an accusation unless you can prove it with fact.

ISIS.

ISIS is the Enemy.

The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy.

Wahabbis and Salafis are the enemy.

They are MY enemy, my wife's enemy, my son's enemy, my daughter's enemy, my mother's enemy, my Father's enemy. They are YOUR enemy as well, whether you care to see that or not. They are, indeed, the enemies of the entire human race, collectively and individually.

What sort of "fact" do you require for "proof" of my assertion?

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

You say my "words and feeling aid the enemy" who's the enemy?
And don't make an accusation unless you can prove it with fact.

ISIS.

ISIS is the Enemy.

The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy.

Wahabbis and Salafis are the enemy.

They are MY enemy, my wife's enemy, my son's enemy, my daughter's enemy, my mother's enemy, my Father's enemy. They are YOUR enemy as well, whether you care to see that or not. They are, indeed, the enemies of the entire human race, collectively and individually.

What sort of "fact" do you require for "proof" of my assertion?

you don't say????


Herp derp !!!


That's been my stance all along .. If you would have read my posts you would have realized that...

Thanks for reaffirming it though


:ETA "jihad salafi" are the enmmy theirs a big difference between them and "salaf"
I happen to be salafi ..

Groups out their "claim" to be salafi but they are not , no true salafi is fighting jihad right now.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere So you feel that sharia law is ok in muslim land? Who will be the one to say what land is muslim or the one to stop muslim land from extending itself. Am i wrong by saying that sharia law is used in muslim lands to justify cutting of genitles and abuse of women along with beheadings and you are ok with that?

lol christians and jews are protected by sharia law.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Well, that explains a lot. I'm debating with myself whether to send you a U2U on the matter, and will continue to debate it while I catch up on the thread, at which point I will likely have made a decision.

We may not be as far apart as one would first assume, other than our opinions being colored by having seen different things out of life... but I stand by my "enemies" listing.

I have reason for that, and that reason is nigh onto unbelievable, hence my quandary with sending the U2U or not.

ETA: All caught up on the thread now. The decision on the U2U was in the negative. Too much potential for misunderstanding, malice, ill will, and generally bad things.