A question to all: Am I a "Christian"?

a reply to: Moresby

Thanks! You know, I have heard of, and listened to Father Spong. I agree with him - thanks for bringing that up.

I also have looked into the Unitarian Universalists as well!!!! (Or, is it Universal Unitarians? lol...I can never remember). And yes, they seem quite suitable.

Spong is great, I think....also, of all the 'denominations' of non-Eastern faiths, I do think the UUs are the closest to my thinking.
Thanks for your post.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: manna2

Part of being a Christian is the absolute reassurance through the Holy Spirit that we find refuge in Him and our eternal destiny is secure in our faith that He is our redeemer.

Ah. Thank you for clarifying.

So, you do or do not believe He is the Annointed?

Honest answer: I DON'T KNOW. I don't know if he is, or not....AND, I don't know if I believe it, or not.

That is what Christ means. It is not a last name, it is a title. He came for a purpose. He was the lamb that was of prophecy. This sacrifice of the lamb was necessary to settle the law in both heaven and the earth. The angels sing "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb, who was and is and is to come" He is thrice Holy. He recieves this praise in like manner that the Father recieves praise by the heavenly host. We have but 1 High Priest and He is in the Holy of Holies right now. He has been there since conquering death and resurection. Night and day. We are under His Grace. Our prayers and supplications are like incense to Him. Do you know Him? Does He grieve for you? Do you listen when He speaks to you through His Word and does the Holy Spirit bear witness to Truth? Or do you rely on your own understanding?
Personally, I think the word has lost all meaning. It has replaced "good person" for the most part...or maybe vice-versa? The words Christian and marriage used to mean a lot and had deep spiritual meaning. Now they mean something else entirely.

I think I like Christer because of its deroguetory usage (as was christian in the beginning) over christian now. And mabe something like "Covenant Bond Relationship between a man and woman before God" to seperate it from what it is now, a contract for commerce between two consenting parties before the state, for marriage. I dont know what word to replace it with though.

a reply to: ciscoagent

i think that being physically and socially involved in the life and practice of the church or other congregation is the most important aspect of all religions, because it keeps you and your family in contact with co-religionists for mutual friendship and support.

Hmm. Okay! Thanks for your thoughtful response. "Culturally", yes, I agree - I was raised/reared as a Christian. But I bowed out in my teens, and never felt the need or urge to go back. So, I guess - no, then. Funnily enough, my beloved Mom (my best friend) has also 'fallen away' - and she was the acolyte mother and VERY devout from childhood!

Even after I left, she hung in there. On her own, she had a 'crisis of faith', I guess you'd call it. Now she's 75, and hasn't the slightest interest in any of it, and looks back at it with bewilderment. We have a great time discussing the whole thing, though.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

There are two answers to this. Either "You are a Christian according to _____" or that "You are not a Christian according to ______".

While there are definitions placed upon the word "Christian" by many self-important people who believe they can define it as they see fit, the basic definition of any "___ian" word is whether or not you identify with the institution or concept itself.

So... do you think you are a Christian? Do you worship their god? Do you mark the box "Christian" when you fill out a survey? Since the answer to you being a Christian will be the opinion of somebody, it may as well be yours.

a reply to: manna2

Do you know Him? Does He grieve for you? Do you listen when He speaks to you through His Word and does the Holy Spirit bear witness to Truth? Or do you rely on your own understanding?

These are good questions. I asked deadeyedick to answer me about whether I 'know him' or not:
YOU TELL ME!!

Does he grieve for me? I have no idea.

When I feel touched by the Divine, and am communicating with the Divine in my personal way, then yes, I feel I am "spoken to" - (feels more like a hug and a comforting immersion in love, like a bath).

As for my own understanding - yes, I guess that's what I rely on. The messages I get, the feelings I experience when I'm communing with my 'composite image' of "God" - the Divine - are personal, and unique to me.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The last Christian died on the cross.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: deadeyedick

Do you have christ in you? have you ever had christ in you?

Please re-read the resume/CV. I was baptized as an infant and participated fully in the church and it's sacraments for over 30 years.



As to your questions: You Tell ME! That's the point!!

(I know what I think - I'm asking what you all think.)

Well having christ in you can have two meanings. One only you can answer

a reply to: Cuervo

So... do you think you are a Christian?

No

Do you worship their god?

I don't know. I don't really "worship" anything. Part of the problem is I don't understand what 'their god' means to all of them!
I studied Wicca and spent several years in that mode - and it felt more 'real' than my previous 'mode.'

Do you mark the box "Christian" when you fill out a survey?

No

Since the answer to you being a Christian will be the opinion of somebody, it may as well be yours.

Either that, or it will be "God's".
I guess, then....no.
Very good questions.


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@ All:
Wow, you guys come up with really good, EXCELLENT questions, and it's really helping me! Honestly!
Thanks.

Interesting how laws of physics apply to spiritual truths and lessons. It is alot harder to pull a person up while standing on a table than it is for them to reach up and pull you down. If she too is episcopalian i do not believe either of you were ever discipled through the Word. You seem intent on finding a god that resembles you and your personal ideals. I dont spend alot of time bashing sects and cults but episcopalian is an easy faux to challenge.a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Okay, folks, unfortunately (for the thread, at the moment), I need to go exercise my dogs (something I enjoy), spend some time outside on this the first day of Summer (happy Beltane! is it? Hang on...no. Midsummer, that's it), and think about some things. (Something I habitually do.)

Thanks for your help and genuineness - I hope you all stay interested and keep turning over the cards for me, questioning, suggesting, etc. - and that more people respond. This is quite interesting to me, if not to anyone else.




I'll be back!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You are just like the majority of Christians. Do you believe there is some force structuring the universe, and a part of it is structuring life on earth? Could that force be conceived as what we call god?

You do not need a church to talk to god. You do not need to go through another human to talk to god. It makes us feel better to talk to god, unloading our stress on him....is that wrong or does it go against psychology? Your insurance does not have to pay a hundred fifty bucks an hour to talk to god. The link to this being is through us, it is a part of us. Not a part of the church.

Being part of a church gives you an "of a kind" relationship with other members. Being a part of any group or community can give you this same relationship. We are social beings, we share energy with others. We share a link of our subconscious when we become of a kind. Look at the social organizations we form, we do this to feel like we belong. This is one of the reasons church makes us feel good. But if you do not believe as those in the church do, it can tear you apart. We need to be social, to learn to be good people, Churches provide the medium for this.

I'd still call you a Christian, if you still believe in god. I see nothing bad in the writings of the new testament. I do not even see anything wrong with much of the writings of the Muslims or many other religions. Well there are a few sects that aren't very nice. There will always be some bad mixed with the good in things, what side of the fence we stand on determines how it effects us.

I wouldn't say I am not a Christian even though my beliefs are different than others. I like being able to evaluate what I read myself instead of taking the interpretations of others as the only way.

Although you have a great resume that would score many points among most denominational Christian Churches you seem to have not been saved .Jesus is the Savior to those that are being saved .You say works ,but it's by Grace .Salivation is a free unmerited favor that the Christian finds in the work of Christ .So it's not what we have done or can do but is what He accomplished on the cross . a reply to: BuzzyWigs

At the end you will either accept christ or not. That's all their really is too it. the rest just makes the day go bye. It is very that accepting christ will require you to bow to him. imo your general message in most of your post on here shows that you are in line with his words even though you may not agree with everyones interputation. It is the heart that matters. there are those amoung us that would never bend a knee to him or anyone.

This film I watched recently has an excellent illustration on this subject...

Below is a transcript from the 28:50 min. point.

The section starting at 27:30 min. is very relevant to the topic though, this is one of the key lines:

Man's rebellion against God is like a huge rip in the moral fabric of the Universe. With God on one side, and everybody else on the other. And there is no way you can get to the other side.

(I did a rush job on the transcript and had to edit out some so I recommend watching the video if you can instead...)

(Transcript is here BTW)

Jesus: That's exactly, how it is with God. He isn't interested in people performing well enough for Him. They can't possibly do that anyway. God created people to have a relationship with Him, so they can enjoy His love.

Nikki: So why don't they?

Jesus: Because man has rejected God, and severed the relationship. God's whole "program" (if you wanna call it that)is all that putting it back together.

Jesus: Who would you say is the best person in the world?

Nikki: Excuse me?

Jesus: Morally speaking: Who is the best person you can think of?

Nikki: Somebody like... Mother Teresa, I guess.

Jesus: Alright. We'll say, this is Mother Teresa, Now, who is the worst?

Nikki: Gosh... Osama Bin Laden, Jeffrey Dahmer... Hitler...

Nikki: Are you saying, that to God Mother Teresa and Hitler are essentially the same?

Jesus: Oh, no, no. Hitler was horribly evil, Mother Teresa did many good things! What I am saying, is: Mother Teresa for all her goodness was no closer to bridging the gap to God than Hitler was. Both of them - based on their own merits - were still a long away from being with God.

Nikki: So that's why you said, that keeping the Ten commandments won't get us into the Heaven?

Jesus: Right. Because no one could ever keep them well enough. Because God's standard is perfection.

Nikki: Boy, that's reassuring...

Jesus: And you wouldn't want it any other way.

Nikki: What that's supposed to mean?

Jesus: Would you really want the Universe to be run by someone who wasn't all about a perfect system of justice? A perfect brand of holiness?

Nikki: Why not? Perfect holiness is the last thing I need to deal with!

Jesus: So you would want a Universe where crime goes unpunished? Where someone who harms Sarah gets off scot free? Where somebody like Bin Laden isn't held accountable for 9/11?

Jesus: Not everyone is as bad as Bin Laden! No, but everyone is a rebel against God in their own way.

Nikki: It just doesn't seem fair, that God sees everyone in the same way, I mean... Some people are just worse than others!

Jesus: And God will handle them all accordingly!

Jesus: But that's just the whole point, Nikki: On what basis would you stand before a perfect God and say, that you've been good enough?

Nikki: But I thought, God is forgiving... With this perfect justice thing you are saying that God can't forgive anyone.

Jesus: God is forgiving more than anything else and God wants to forgive people, so they can return to Him. But... God's desire to forgive can't override His perfect justice! People have to pay a penalty for breaking God's laws. And the penalty is: death.

"The Perfect Stranger" is based on the novel, 'Dinner With a Perfect Stranger' by David Gregory, 'THE PERFECT STRANGER' tells the story of Nikki, a troubled attorney who one day receives a mysterious dinner invitation from a man claiming to be Jesus of Nazareth. Throughout their evening of conversation, arguments and spirited debate, Nikki learns things she never knew about life, the universe, and most importantly, herself. (Sequel to this film is here BTW)

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You feel a bit convicted. You know in spirit you seek Jesus, but, as many, you feel lost, confused, perplexed.

You're looking for answers that your flesh will agree with, yet your spirit is being "pulled" by The Holy Spirit, and is telling you there is something way bigger; Jesus.

You wanna be told by us, "it is okay, you are saved". You have the answer inside you.

You are seeking (that is great). You need to start trusting (that voice in your heart. Not the muscle, the heart in the pit of your stomach). Obey that Word inside your heart, the Word you know that is telling you the truth, the Word which your flesh tries to ignore, and hate.

Fact is, BuzzyWigs, you want to be saved. That, IMO, tells me that you are trying. Choose to believe in Jesus as your Savior. Let your heart tell your mind what to do. Open the eyes of your heart.

a reply to: KaelemJames

This is quite the interesting response....
because, I thought you were Muslim!

Thanks for your input.

To be honest, I really and truly am confused, feeling adrift - when it comes to organized religion choices.

On my own? Well - it's a different story. I feel connected to something quite larger than me, and totally incomprehensible...
(which, I think, is what the so-called holy texts and philosophers say): We just don't 'get it.' We can't, as humans, "get it."

It's bigger than our imaginations, senses, and thoughts allow, let alone our languages.
It defies description.

That's kinda where I am - and why I don't take any "holy text" scribed or stated by men (whether they claim divine inspiration or not!) as 'Truth'. Simply because they said so does NOT cut it with me.

a reply to: KaelemJames

Fact is, BuzzyWigs, you want to be saved. That, IMO, tells me that you are trying. Choose to believe in Jesus as your Savior. Let your heart tell your mind what to do. Open the eyes of your heart.

Well, see....that's the thing. I think the eyes of my heart ARE open! I think I DO let my heart guide me....

Am I trying? You bet I am!

Sorry for the broken response....sometimes I have to absorb things one sentence at a time, and try to make sense of my responses/reactions.

I appreciate your time and thoughts in responding.

(As well as everyone else's).

Btw, Jesus was quoting scripture, from dead guys, long before He lived.a reply to: BuzzyWigs

My dear - I get the feeling you want to counted as saved. The term Christian refers to those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour. We don't have to and simply cannot strive to rack up points, to work our way into Heaven, to gain favour with God. It's humanly impossible. Jesus came to earth to live as man and to die in our place. And so therefore we are already forgiven, already saved. As long as we accept him as our saviour.

It's that easy. From there it's about building a personal relationship with him. That simply means to get to know him. Read the Bible. Read the 4 gospels out of any of the books. Sure, it's great to go to church so that we can fellowship with other believers but this does not guarantee you a spot in heaven or accumulate points. Church is a place to learn about the Bible, to help us find peace, listen to stories that occurred in the past and how we can resolve similar issues in our own life. Church can be a gathering of two people, or a blog online. If you are confused read the Bible, but read it for yourself. There are modern day translations that can help understand the Bible. There are free online Bibles. I think this is the only way you can ever now within yourself. Pray to God before you read the Bible and ask Him to help you understand it.

Too often people spend years in church, take their children there and raise them with a church mindset but they aren''t getting anything out of it, there's no life activating their experiences. Jesus is alive, He is stirring in your heart. He is calling to you. You can feel the tug and it just gets better and better. Too many Christians today just listen to their preacher, go home and live their day to day lives and then focus on themselves the rest of the time. Jesus is the supernatural, he isn't some old history story. He is stirring about you and he is holding you close to himself, calling you. He's your best friend and that's all he wants - to be with you every day.

No one can judge what will happen if you aren't saved. But if "hell" is as simple as being separated from God (as some have suggested) I wouldn't want to be in that boat, i.e.: as a Christian we believe we go back to be with God, it's our natural state, and so if separation from God is what will happen then that would be agony. It would be like ripping the heart from within our chest.

Many of us have had supernatural occurrences that have strengthened or decided our faith and others have only mere faith to go by. Some will never have a sign. To think of a future existence of being with a supreme being that offers me utmost peace and unconditional love, that came to earth to die for me, who says that he has prepared a home for me, has so many wonders waiting for me that I can't possibly conceive of ... what a wonderful state of being that will be - forever. I don't care about all the materialistic thoughts of heaven - I just want to be with him.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I think only Anglicans (Episcopalians) really have questions of this kind.

Other churches are very strict about what you have to do and believe in order to qualify for membership in the Body of the Faithful. Ours (I was raised Anglican too) gives believers a lot of latitude (some of us were once called Latitudinarians) because it originated as a national church, intended to unite England behind its king at a time of grave religious controversy. So, for political reasons, it evolved to be inclusive of many different strains of belief, from Anglo-Catholicism to Evangelicalism. It wasn't an easy process and many people suffered or died helping bring the Anglican Church to maturity.

In other churches you have to believe what you're told or get out. We Anglicans have it a little easier.

But if you don't accept the articles of the Nicene Creed (on which you've based your statement of unfaith), I'd say you weren't a Christian. And by the same token, neither am I. Still proud to call myself an Anglican, though.