Tempering Steel while using sound vibrations?

Tempering Steel while using sound vibrations? I have no knowledge of this subject but I had a dream that I was involved in creating a stinger steel by using sound waves during tempering process. Not only did it make the steel much, much stronger but in the dream we were able to use sound waves to create waves and bubbles inside steel that expanded it making it lighter while being stronger. I have no idea why I dreamed such a thing though I did used to work on aircraft and admired our technology and how we made stuff stronger. In the dream we also used sound waves on other metals to get similar results.

Is this done currently and is it plausible idea or invention ?

Its an intriguing idea.

Using sound as the steel cool from red hot might have some effect but the bubbles, i think any air in a steel bar or blade would be bad news not good news.

Can you in some way give more information about the the sound and preferably what frequency/frequencies we are talking about?

When you are talking about waves and bubbles in the tempering are the bubbles vacuum or filled with air or something else?

I am guessing you are after a solid steel object that is only steel and not some half solid with half fluent material or are we talking about a half steel half something else that you use vibrational sound to shape with resonance?

PS. Do not take my questions to seriously since I am just playing hunches and really do not know anything about tempering but I can see that you might use resonance/sound to create shapes and composite material when the material is in a liquid state.

Since "I am playing around with Binaural Beats/Isochronic Tones that makes induces changes in my body that is noticeable" my thinking kinda goes towards this when you say sound vibrations since the sound creates vibrations in the body.

Trying to work out what Hz and Db to use with which alloys, shapes and stages of production will take a bit of work. Get it wrong and it could also weaken the metal. The idea that sonics can improve metals strength sounds reasonable, as for how much improvement looks to be a lot of work.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to try .When looking at the sands response to sound vibes it might make sense to imagine a network like a honey comb structure inside the metal giving some desired properties . Neet dream though . Best of luck in researching this ...peace

a reply to: Xeven

Tempering Steel while using sound vibrations = Adamantium?

Not sure ff tempering while using sound would be as effective as using it in the initial making of the steel process. I don't see how sound could change anything once the steel blank has been hardened.

I would look more into using the sound through the quenching process in whatever medium is being used to quench. If you used the quench as a sonic quench it could possibly change the martensite structure, though it would have to be tried with various frequencies over time to see which achieved the best results. It would be similar to how a jewelry sonic cleaner works to clean precious metals.....

Very cool thread and great dream.

Interestingly enough I just started to look up anything I could find on this process and it seems they already use it while creating the metals and alloys from the start in order to obtain a more even mixture and stable metal. I will link some of the articles I am finding, but seems they go back to the 1950's when they started looking at the properties of vibrational cooling methods when making the metals.

Here is one...

Source

The investigation of ultrasonic melt degassing allowed us to establish a relationship between
hydrogen removal and effect of ultrasonic field, namely acoustical cavitation. The cleaning of the melt to
remove gaseous and solid impurities during ultrasonic treatment improves the quality of as-cast and
deformed metal (the density and plasticity). It should be noted that the bubble-aided hydrogen removal is
accompanied by oxide flotation.
The irradiation of metallic melts by ultrasonic waves favorably influences degassing, grain refinement,
dispersive effect and mixing. Obviously, the experimental findings reported here do not exhaust this very
promising subject, and more thorough investigations are currently underway. This work mainly investigates
the optimal conditions for the irradiation of solidifying alloys by ultrasonic waves vibrating at the
fundamental resonance frequency.

Apparently it is used quite often in the solidification processing of metals now.

I still think there is something to be checked into with the temper/quench process though....quenching especially....

I dont know about sound, it may be something to experiment with. the way we temper glass, is by heating it and then cooling it fast. we are really creating stress in the glass that is locked inside of the piece. its becomes very strong, but the minute that bond is broken all the stress is released, and thats why the glass breaks into thousands of pieces.

a reply to: Xeven
The strength/weakness of steel is largely determine by grain size. This is
basically the crystaline structure. Cracks arise between the grains. Anything
that reduces the size of the grains makes the steel stronger and tougherl Quick cooling
help accomplish this. So does alloying.

One of the factors in in Damascus steel swords was that they were forged repeately, reducing
the grain size.

Could sound be used effectively to accomplish this? Interesting thought...

a reply to: Xeven

I like this idea, for a while I was tinkering around with the idea of smithing as a hobby. I bet you may find a few who would be willing to give this a whirl if you asked around the proper web sites.

originally posted by: UMayBRite!
a reply to: Xeven
The strength/weakness of steel is largely determine by grain size. This is
basically the crystaline structure. Cracks arise between the grains. Anything
that reduces the size of the grains makes the steel stronger and tougherl Quick cooling
help accomplish this. So does alloying.

One of the factors in in Damascus steel swords was that they were forged repeately, reducing
the grain size.

Could sound be used effectively to accomplish this? Interesting thought...

For car engine blocks and aircraft jet turbine blades, the metal is much stronger if it grown from a single crystal, so they forge those components from a single crystal by letting the liquid metal cool slowly over days.
But if the metal were in a semi-liquid state, the ultrasonic sound would help the crystal grains of metal line up.

a reply to: Xeven

my husband is building a forge currently, and we've been looking into both vibration during tempering and quenching with crystal-infused water. Anybody else have thoughts?

a reply to: kismetpair927

What are you making in this forge? Because it sounds like Excalibur.

Was going to say something about standing wave patterns from ultrasound affecting recrystalization during annealing, but Vasa Croe and UMayBRite beat me to it. The goal would be smaller crystals, thus a stronger more ductile material. So there's some science to it. (But probably a lot of trial and error if you do it in some low-tech personal process.)