London's wealthy placing "Homeless spikes" outside luxury flats

a reply to: EternalSolace

Speaking only for myself...

Only if you pose a risk by your behaviour, to me or mine. Otherwise? Probably not. I might suggest it would be safer for you elsewhere, such as a shelter? But that'd be about as far as it would go.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: EternalSolace

Speaking only for myself...

Only if you pose a risk by your behaviour, to me or mine. Otherwise? Probably not. I might suggest it would be safer for you elsewhere, such as a shelter? But that'd be about as far as it would go.

Yes, and that is just the problem. In the UK where we have a generous welfare system that provides housing benefit,it is often those with alcohol/drug/mental health issues who are homeless, as they find it impossible to maintain a tenancy due to their issues..I actually have a similar problem to the one TrueBrit posted a while back, with people using our stairwell as a public area...and believe me, once you've stepped out of your front door into a pool of urine, litter, used condoms etc, you soon want to take action.

Furthermore, you could not invite these people into your home as they would stay approx 5 mins until they had taken your telly, purse, computer etc and flogged them at the nearest pawn shop, at which point they would be back, in the stairwell, drunk, high and generally causing a nuisance.

I have been through all of this on a different thread sometime ago, and the homeless woman, who used to bunk down on our stairs and that I talked about on that thread actually got the ground floor flat in my building...we have had nothing but trouble, constant visits from the police etc, that she has phoned herself I might add, due to the people she lets into her home...No more though, she fell asleep, with a cigarette whilst out of her face, setting fire to her bed, and it was only when my smoke alarm went off, 2 floors up, that I realised there was anything wrong.

Between myself, my daughter and the neighbours above us, we managed to evacuate the entire block and I phoned the fire brigade, but by that time the building was full of smoke, and we were all very lucky to get out alive. The fire brigade and the police said it was nothing short of a miracle that we all did not die from the smoke inhalation. Sadly the woman in question was not so lucky and is currently still in the serious burns unit at Canniesburn hospital in Glasgow, as they had to pull her from the burning building.

I have to be honest and say it was my worst fear realised, sorry I can't remember what thread it was I posted in, and was in fact castigated by many people for saying that I didn't want this woman outside of my door, but that was one of the points I made...what if she sets the place on fire and we're all trapped! Thankfully I have a very good smoke alarm that saved us all, but like I say it could have been very different and even yet, I am still cleaning soot from everything in my flat and the horrible acrid smoke is still lingering throughout the entire building, and of course, her flat is wrecked, it's not livable, it's just a shell, all boarded up, so because of her chaotic lifestyle, now no one can live there, although we still have to live above it.

Has it stopped the antisocial behaviour in the building? No, it has not, in fact it has got worse, because people now see this dilapidated, boarded up building and the problem is worse than ever. I just want to move, but have had serious health issues in the last couple of years and cannot work this now, and therefore, I cannot afford to move, but now, even though she is gone, and is unlikely to ever move back in due the the damage in the flat, I can hardly sleep at night, not only because of the constant disturbance of people using the stairwell like a party pad, but my terrible fear of another fire. fire that spread through our building so quickly that night, it was terrifying and it was a miracle that no one else was hurt, but I just want to get the hell out of there, but I am stuck, and how is it fair that I should live in a state of constant fear, just so that other people, who have no care for me can use my building like it is their own personal space, to do what the want in?

There is actually a much more effective and eye pleasing way of filling in the space where those spikes are at, just use a large and heavy plant or flower pot, it would keep homeless from crawling into that space and it would look nice.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: trig_grl

I must state first, that I have slept rough for an extended period before. That is as clarification and to provide context to what I am about to say.

There is no need for a person who is sleeping rough, to do so outside dwelling places, and shopping venues. In fact, doing so places a homeless person in more danger than they would be, if they had selected a good place to bed down. When one goes to select a place in ones locality, to bed down for the night, one must consider the following things:

First, violence against the homeless, both by passers by and other homeless persons, can be a problem for someone living the hard life. Therefore, it is best to select a patch where one is out of the way of foot traffic as much as possible, reducing the number of people who will potentially stroll by, which in turn reduces the potential sources of violence that a rough sleeper might encounter. For that reason, I chose to sleep on a large roundabout, which used to dominate the top end of the High Street in our local town center.

I made my bed against a tree there more often than not, and the area I had selected was surrounded on all sides by thick shrubs, which kept prying eyes from locating me, and the foliage also provided shelter from rain and wind, not to mention being slightly warmer because of the plant and insect life in the area.

When I did not sleep there, I slept under a pedestrian bridge which provided similar cover, save for the fact that the protection offered was provided by concrete rather than by vegetation.

The other thing to ensure is that one never uses private property to doss down on. Public land is generally easier to access, far less likely to be visited during the later hours of the day and the early hours of the morning, and therefore is statistically speaking, quite a bit safer for someone living rough. You have to think tactically if you are living on the street, because otherwise you expose yourself to unnecessary risk, and THAT is what gets a person shived in their sleep and robbed of what pathetic belongings one might have available to them, or worse.

So... the main things to look for are a place which allows for concealment from prying eyes as a priority, and shelter as a far secondary priority.

The example of that rebated area in the OP story, fails on the primary consideration of concealment, and only offers a little shelter anyway, and therefore even at my most desperate, I would never consider bedding down in such a place. Whether you live in a high rise, penthouse suite or on the dirtiest street in your city or town, stupidity is not acceptable, and you would have to be pretty stupid to select a bedding area which not only fails to conceal you against being seen by potential sources of threat, but also offers very poor shelter from the elements, as the featured location does.

Also, a word on the anti-social behavior prevention element of the placement of these spikes. I currently live in a flat above the place I work. To access it, one walks out through the back door of our shop, and up a flight of stairs. These stairs, during the summer months, are plauged with youths toking on illicit smokeables, drinking beer they are not legally allowed to purchase, and occasionally (and only in the circumstance that both persons are morally defunct, intellectually stunted morons) people screwing under them in amongst the filth. This practice particularly, is both upsetting for those of us with some sort of sense of propriety, and is drastically unhealthy when you consider the biomechanical requirements of penetration, and how enacting such a thing in a place which is frequented by stray cats, foxes, birds, and occasionally rats, should be quite obviously a bad idea.

Now, in the case of smoking and drinking on the stairs, this blocks the private access to the flats above, and creates tension between the residents of the flats, and the kids on the stairs, some of whom are verbally abusive to the residents when they try to ascend. For some reason (I cannot think why) I get very little of that, even when I inform them that they have approximately five minutes to leave the area, before I call the police and start throwing them off the property. For other residents up here however, they appear quite intimidating as I am sure you can appreciate, and lets face it, I am not always here to clear them out.

If the addition of spikes was not the enormous health and safety risk that it would be to legitimate users, then I would consider them a welcome addition to the stairs, since they would be far less likely to be used as a place to sit and partake of illegal drugs, and illicitly obtained beverages. The importance of a stair being flat and not having protrusions to trip on make use of these spikes in that place an impossibility.

The under stairs area however, would be a PERFECT candidate for the addition of such things, since no one goes there, aside from to engage in the most ill advised sexual pursuits ever enacted since Katie Price lost her virginity.

In short, the homeless have a raw deal, but having been there myself in various states of mental disrepair, I can tell you that it is NOT necessary, and is infact counter productive, for a homeless person to use areas like those being fitted with these spikes, as a bedding place.

First off: Sorry you had to live "rough' for a while, but maybe that was a choice...obviously you had enough smarts to keep yourself safe, but nobody should have to live without shelter. Glad you came out on top.

Second: A variation has been around in the New Orlean's French Quarter for about 300 years, except they are called "Romeo Spikes" and were (and still are) used to prevent would be suitors and trespassers from courtyards and balconies.

("... one must get past the locked gate dangerously armored with protruding shards of cement-stuck glass or spear-like ironwork that is aesthetically appealing yet able to rip flesh from a trespasser leaping the gate.")

The spikes are actually quite beautiful and do the job, but no one in NOLA would be so bourgeois as to put the Romeo Spikes on the ground...hey we love our homeless and drunks!

a reply to: trig_grl

London's homeless should try impaling the culprits responsible for the installation of such devices! LoL

Another thing, if a kid or elderly person falls on those it will make a hell of a mess maybe even kill them!

originally posted by: bloodreviara
You folks saying this is OK do realize there is literally a bed of spikes
on the side walk right? where any unlucky individual, anyone not paying
attention say maybe looking down at a phone or at their buddy talking
could fall onto it right? Is it just me or are people really OK with random
spike beds on sidewalks.

The world really has gone insane..... Next thing you know they will booby
trap trash bins to fire tranquilizer darts at anyone littering..... lol

Take another look, the spikes are not on the side walk at all, they are in an alcove.

a reply to: destination now

Those are all valid points. Ones that I've had to deal with at one time or another... I quite understand.

My reaction is usually case by case. It depends upon the individual. I live in a smaller town, so the homeless situation isn't near as prevalent as it is in a large metro area such as London, or New York.

I've no problem if someone wants to use an alcove to get out of the rain and have a dry, or sort of dry, place to sleep. I'm probably in the minority with that opinion...and it would probably not be the case if I weren't 6'5", and over 250 lbs., and not exactly a warm and cuddly looking person. I generally don't get pan handled, or harassed. It's certain that if I had children, my attitude would definitely be different.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: destination now

Those are all valid points. Ones that I've had to deal with at one time or another... I quite understand.

My reaction is usually case by case. It depends upon the individual. I live in a smaller town, so the homeless situation isn't near as prevalent as it is in a large metro area such as London, or New York.

I've no problem if someone wants to use an alcove to get out of the rain and have a dry, or sort of dry, place to sleep. I'm probably in the minority with that opinion...and it would probably not be the case if I weren't 6'5", and over 250 lbs., and not exactly a warm and cuddly looking person. I generally don't get pan handled, or harassed. It's certain that if I had children, my attitude would definitely be different.

That's the difference. In London, especially Southwark from my experience, you have aggressive beggars who call you names, demand money, and then call you more names if you don't hand over money. Usually they are druggies.

It's not just London that puts up spikes on walls though, they do it across Scotland as well. The old fashioned method is to smash up old glass bottles and cement the pieces on top of garden walls to stop burglars from climbing over and also have thorn bushes on the other side. The modern method is to take acrylic strips of spikes and nail them to the top of the wall, and put up a suitable notice:

a reply to: trig_grl

This is really sad. While I don't necessarily agree with the lifestyle a lot of homeless people lead to get them in those situations, many of them were just dealt a shi+ hand in life and have no other options.

I wonder how long it will take before they just start killing homeless people instead.

a reply to: LarryLove

So what should they do? Just allow bums to sleep by their front door? Are you kidding me? There is an entire social support network--A VERY GENEROUS ONE--that waits for the homeless to utilize it. I for one would not want homeless people sleeping by my front door, it's just that simple.

a reply to: jaffo

This entire social support network that waits for the homeless to utilize it, where is it exactly? Considering you cannot apply for benefits without a fixed address or at least a care of address , never mind the fact that there is a shortage of social accommodations nationwide and especially so in London.

a reply to: jaffo

Why not help them find that social support network to utilize instead of putting spikes down? Maybe they just don't know where to go or are to ashamed to ask for help.

originally posted by: LarryLove
Like building owners would for pigeons. Do we now consider the homeless vermin?

No people dont consider homeless vermin, but the spikes ( more sort of blunt knobs ) are a simple and safe way of keeping people from sleeping next to doors. Homelessness is a deep and complicated problem that needs to be addressed by everyone, ranting on about "spikes " that are really just blunt knobs helps noone.

originally posted by: imod02

originally posted by: LarryLove
Like building owners would for pigeons. Do we now consider the homeless vermin?

No people dont consider homeless vermin, but the spikes ( more sort of blunt knobs ) are a simple and safe way of keeping people from sleeping next to doors. Homelessness is a deep and complicated problem that needs to be addressed by everyone, ranting on about "spikes " that are really just blunt knobs helps noone.

I was planning a long and complicated post, but to be honest I do not think I could put it any better than this.

In fact I was approached for a voxpop by a radio station about this very issue. I rather wish I'd given this answer!

VICTORY! London activists poured concrete over anti-homeless spikes outside a supermarket early Thursday morning and now the company says they will remove the metal spikes entirely. #homesnotspikes

www.vice.com...