Homosexual Conversion Therapy

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
This study is quite fitting.

Homophobs might be hidden homosexuals

I mean it makes complete sense. How can someone hate something if they don't first hate it in themselves?

Did you know Fred Phelps had a homosexual incident?

Anyway, yes, while some extreme homophobics are latent homosexuals, I personally don't think it's that vast.

IMO it's directly linked to extreme bible followers. I say extreme because divorce, adultery, slavery are far more prominent in the bible then the few vague references to man with man.

It's the current "pick something we can all gang up on" --- that we can separate from us and our own indiscretions.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Xcalibur254

How effective would it be to use therapy to turn a straight person gay?

Beezzeer: That is a question that is all too easily answered (at least in one direction). Look at it from the 'Nature v Nurture' point of view. For example if you are raised in a household where the role models are smokers you are exponentially more likely to become a smoker. The same holds true for obese parents raising obese children and single-parent households raising single-parent children. There is little argument from either side of the fence on this.

From the earliest age you emulate what you see.

So logic would dictate that if you were to take 100 young children and raise them in an atmosphere of ubiquitous homosexuality the percentage of them that grew up to be homosexual would be greater than the control group (the American population) which is ~3%.

There are also those statistical outliers, like kids that are raised in a non-smoking households that grow up to be chain-smokers and healthy parents who wind up raising fatties you'll have straight parents that raise gay kids.

There is no 'Smokers Gene', or 'Fatty Gene'. These are cop-outs used by lazy people that have no willpower. I also don't believe that there is a 'Gay Gene'. Clinically speaking, being gay is likely nothing more than a whole lot of crossed wires in the brain mixed with some hormone imbalances for good measure.


IMO you'd have better luck making a 'straight pill' to correct the hormone imbalances than praying the gay away.

a reply to: Lipton

The only problem with your theory is that smoking and overeating (which causes obesity) are both habits. Sure it's true if you are raised around people with any manner of habits, be it smoking, drinking, taking drugs etc etc you are far more likely to pick up the same habit.

That much of your logic is correct. However

Sexuality is most definitely NOT a habit. Studies of children raised by homosexual parents show they are no more likely to grow up gay than those raised under a straight roof.

a reply to: markosity1973

I've yet to see any unbiased study that tracks a significantly large enough population of youth to be published that one could use as definitive proof that sexuality cannot be influenced by adult figures.

Besides that what is you opinion on the casual factor of homosexuality in the first place? I am in agreement with the the majority here that it isn't a choice (as who would willingly join a group that has been called every name in the book?) I would liken the idea of choosing to be gay like choosing to become an 18-24 black male.

I am of the opinion that it is a combination between incorrect chemical/hormone releases during the formative years and a series of incorrect 'switches' being turned on in the brain when one becomes aroused due to this.

Brain response to visual sexual stimuli in homosexual pedophiles

And FFS no I'm not calling homosexuals pedophiles. But one cannot discount the fact that the test group showed areas of the brain showed while the control group did not. IMO it is something worth discussing and worthy of research.

a reply to: Lipton

Interesting study. Although some may argue otherwise, I am of the opinion that pedophilia is not a type of sexuality. To my knowledge, all pedophiles were sexually abused themselves, gay people like me were not however. Some gay folk have been abused yes, but not all of us.

This visual stimulus experiment shows that different parts of the brain are active in pedophiles to non pedophiles. What needs to be studied now is whether the same area of the brain fires in non pedophile straight people as it did in the non pedophile gay ones.

As for my theory on why I turned out gay, I'd say it was hormones in the womb. My mum did have a stressful pregnancy from the stories I've heard about the early days of tgeir marriage. It was certainly not a nurture thing because we were raised in a catholic and extremely anti-gay environment. And no, there weren't any kiddy fiddling priests in our parish when I was young.

How many of you understand that either

A. There js no god there is only random life that ends at death. We will eventually be able to alter that life. This will allow 3 things
1.being able to put your mind and/or using a body sculpting program for our nanobots/body sculpting nanobot to become the opposite sex to give yourself that "man in a woman's body" type thing
2 being able to do #1 with hormones for the "man with slight to sever mood changes" type thing
3 total gender overhaul rewiring of the brain and body to make u another gender

If a is correct then

B we will have reached the point here A is possible chances are your parents
1 chose your sexual orientation or
2 chanced it
In either case A would be a personal choice

C there is a god (also see my earlier quote ,like page 3)

God is all knowing and omnipotent , beginning and end

Then hes knows what we will do because he created us to do it. There is no free will for sure.

And whatever we do , it is because we were ment to do it

The issue can't be solved so easy. It's not like someone can be told "love leads to sex and sex leads to making babies". That is the number one rule of all species, to procreate, to expand.

It's not only homosexuals that need to undergo a conversion, it's also heterosexuals. Before there was a choice, or when love was only about male/female and there was no other definition, there was none and everybody did it the same way and all lived in harmony. This was probably more than 200000 years ago since even in ancient Egypt there was the phenomenon and just by it's existence it affected other people knowingly or unknowingly. Many people think "they are wrong and I am right" and in sexual matters this intensifies the sexual experience but it's just as off regarding the above as homosexuality, except ofcourse it might lead to making babies. Meanwhile those of the same gender sex might feel like they have overcome nature's laws and might feel some kind of power from that. It's mutually dependent is the point I'm trying to make.

When the natural rules can be bypassed, this leads to mind over matter thinking. Lies and truths can be equally convincing since the natural system can be bypassed so something might sound just as right as something true while it may be false but since no one can tell for sure there is no one to notice this.

Love can be viewed a curse on our planet. Once exposed one has to say no to it right away but often or maybe always it is something unknown and only much later might one find out about the curse. It's centuries old and affects everyone, where the original definition of love, only there to motivate procreation and make babies is replaced by another definition which states it's something for pleasure and bonding, instead of connecting more on a mental level, people connect on a physical level.

To end the curse involves an eternal marriage (between different genders) where both show the original definition of truth each day to eachother, without it every attempt at conversion is futile. It also involves the cooperation of the entire world, all countries of the planet would have to participate and even when all people have been gotten rid of the curse, a period of séances would have to commence to find and converse all the restless spirits of the past especially those restless souls looking for love forever but never finding it. People would have to be educated, antihomosexual laws should be created and everybody should be told how to deal with the subject, which granted in this day and age of computers and communication is easier than before but still even undiscovered tribes should be getting a computer to get with the program. Whoever begins will be heralded the Messiah who have shown everyone love and set everybody free.

It's all easier said than done and everybody should find out themselves.

a reply to: markosity1973


Thank you for not thinking that I was trying to attack. It seems that the overwhelming majorities on both sides are only screaming 'We're right' and any significant dialogue gets lost in the din.

I really was intrigued by the visual stimulus testing too, mainly because it shows a clear chemical reaction that is telling the test subject to be aroused, that the control groups did not react to. I'd really like to see this study expanded because it shows some pretty significant promise to further understand the differences between our brains and could help answer the big 'why' question?

Something else that I have noticed it the concerted effort that the homosexual community has done it seek to distance themselves from the various sexual subcategories. Are you at all concerned of them attempting to coat-tail with your movement as it continues to gain momentum?


markosity1973: On a personal side-note, after reading numerous threads here and countless other places and living in the real world I totally understand why you all would be pissed. My personal opinion is that of indifference. I just don't care. I don't care who is screwing who, so long as it's consensual and the partner isn't 7 or something along those lines. The way I look at it we as a whole have OODLES of other # on our collective plate to be quibbling over something like gay marriage. Seeing as how 50% of hetero marriages fail within the first year I think the whole 'sanctity of marriage' claim had been worn thin even before you all came up to bat.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, as I know how much the issue impacts you (I empathize with you), but every time I see a Pride Parade, or an episode of Glee or American Family I just sort of shake my head. From my side of the fence, with no skin in the game, all I see is the homosexual community being reduced to a caricature.

You guys need a better PR manager.

originally posted by: Lipton
a reply to: markosity1973


Thank you for not thinking that I was trying to attack. It seems that the overwhelming majorities on both sides are only screaming 'We're right' and any significant dialogue gets lost in the din.

I really was intrigued by the visual stimulus testing too, mainly because it shows a clear chemical reaction that is telling the test subject to be aroused, that the control groups did not react to. I'd really like to see this study expanded because it shows some pretty significant promise to further understand the differences between our brains and could help answer the big 'why' question?

Something else that I have noticed it the concerted effort that the homosexual community has done it seek to distance themselves from the various sexual subcategories. Are you at all concerned of them attempting to coat-tail with your movement as it continues to gain momentum?

Yes, it is fascinating to read studies like that one. When impartial information like that is passed on I for ne am always keen to read and learn, because there appears to be no political motivation in its findings.

As for sexual sub categories trying to ride on the coat tails of homosexuality, I have said this many times, but I'll repeat it for your benefit;

I do not support any form of sexual activity that does not involve two consenting and human adults. Only human adults are able to give full knowledgeable consent and therefore able understand the gravity of what sexual activity entails.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: Christian Voice
The summation of my thoughts on the subject is this :
Forced therapy on anybody is not right. I do believe homosexuals can change but they have to want to change or it will never happen. Jesus can make it happen.

yes, i do not stand by forcing someone to do anything, without a legal conviction.

and i have not seen this conversion being forced on anyone.

I know you are coming from a place of love, but the truth is ugly. People are forced into reparative therapy. My own family tried to force me into it. It was only because I was a minor and the doctors looking after me after my suicide attempt (for being gay) threatened to make me a ward of the state they backed down.

Too often, young people are forced to undergo Conversion Therapy by parents and ministers who refuse to accept that they are gay. Parents need to understand that being gay is ok and that their child was created this way in God’s eyes. While some religions wrongfully condemn homosexuality, many embrace it and believe it is part of God’s natural order.

Source

Despite the fact I get cranky with the fundie type christians, I acknowledge that there are many wonderful loving and grounded ones out there too. In fact I was helped out of my misery by non judgemental christians who showed me the true face of Christ.

truly sorry for what you went through, markosity,

no one should be forced and least of all have gov forcing people.

i doubt if anything would work anyway, besides a total reset and that is way beyond our abilities.

originally posted by: tsingtao

truly sorry for what you went through, markosity,

no one should be forced and least of all have gov forcing people.

i doubt if anything would work anyway, besides a total reset and that is way beyond our abilities.

Thankyou for your kind words I am at peace with all of that now.

The message I want to send Christians is that I was rescued by the loving grace of God. Through the good people who were able to see me as a human and not a homosexual leper and a few little miracles from he himself I made it through, retaining my faith and all the while remaining gay.

I actually asked (begged) God to take my sexuality away, but he did not. I refrained from sexual activity until I was 19, but hey I am human and I have normal carnal desires and I just try to live by the template christianity gives for relationships

Until I meet a person who can truthfully me that they have complied 100% with everything the bible teaches every day of their life I will take their anti gay sentiment as a grain of salt.

a reply to: Lipton

I disagree with your theory based on the fact that if what you said were true then all the homosexuals being raised by straight parents would "Nurture" them into being straight too. It doesn't although it may make them want to try to be that way because that is what they are told to be.

The idea that you can just turn someone homo or hetero is almost criminal IMO. You're basically talking about "brainwashing" or possibly a form of Eugenics. Why is it so important for some people to want to change everyone else that they don't agree with??? What makes them think they have any business doing that to someone based upon assumptions that those other people are better off being something other than what they naturally are???

Even if someone's sexuality was 100% their own choice, what business is it of anyone else not involved???

How gracefully would all the "Changers" handle it if the same was pushed on them??? Take away their husbands and wives and try and replace them with their opposite sex and I'd like to see just how quietly they'd accept it. My guess they'd never go for it. But since it's not them that has to deal with it, they're all for it. Some people are so completely F**ked Up it seems like humanity isn't even the same species sometimes.

My last words

Start with

Brainsex

Then read

E.s.o.

Then read anne rices

Claiming of beauty and its sequels

Then come back here

But being bisexual im used to being ignored a n d loathed by both sides lol

a reply to: mOjOm

sigh...your perfunctory, canned response is precisely what I expected and it is painfully obvious that you failed to read the few posts I made in their entirety.

Would you like a congratulatory high-five for ensuring that no meaningful discourse takes place here?

a reply to: Lipton

Oh yes please enlighten me oh great one with your superior knowledge.

How exactly was my comment canned or not within the scope of this topic???

Because I don't agree with your theory that the parents or upbringing has the power to change someone's sexuality I'm somehow not worthy to comment here???

The concept is barbaric on the face of it and nothing more than another case of religious zealots trying to hide their prejudice behind what they think is science in an effort to gain some level of legitimacy.

Why someone would care about someone else's sexuality is beyond me.

originally posted by: thebtheb
Okay, sorry but THAT is pseudo-science. There is no proof - NO PROOF WHATSOEVER - that sexual orientation has anything to do with genes or hormones. It's all talked about; some people even talk about it as if it were true, but there is nothing, no study, no behaviour, no observation that proves any of that to be true. Give a straight man all the estrogen you want, he will grow boobs but still be attracted to women. Sexuality, and orientation are far too complex to come down to hormones and genes.

That's not true at all.

www.sciencedaily.com...

“Our research implies that genes account for some of the differences between male and female brains,” Vilain said. “We believe that one’s genes, hormones and environment exert a combined influence on sexual brain development.” - Dr. Eric Vilain, assistant professor of human genetics and urology at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA and a pediatrician at UCLA’s Mattel Children’s Hospital.

Is there a term for heterosexual men who are oriented toward lesbians or women with physical flaws?
Perfect women, by contemporary standards, don't really do much for me.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Since now another might be getting the point I may re enter the thread

Not many will listen

But I will continue to post

Eta. ..maybe

originally posted by: Lipton

From the earliest age you emulate what you see.

So logic would dictate that if you were to take 100 young children and raise them in an atmosphere of ubiquitous homosexuality the percentage of them that grew up to be homosexual would be greater than the control group (the American population) which is ~3%.

Since you choose to insult me, cry foul and run away without making clear what your problem is with me simply not agreeing with your theory above, I've decided to double down on why I think your theory is wrong with evidence to support my reasoning. Hopefully this will allow us to continue to discuss this topic without all the hostility.

This is from The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP)

Children with Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Parents

What effect does having LGBT parents have on children?

Sometimes people are concerned that children being raised by a gay parent will need extra emotional support or face unique social stressors.Current research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults. It is important for parents to understand that it is the the quality of the parent/child relationship and not the parent’s sexual orientation that has an effect on a child’s development. Research has shown that in contrast to common beliefs, children of lesbian, gay, or transgender parents:

Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior).

If you don't agree fine. If you do, also fine. No need to be so damn hostile toward me in responding now I hope.