PROOF (for me) of ET visitation on earth.

I came across some information maybe a month or two ago about some "warp drive" NASA has been working on with renewed optimism about it's feasibility.

www.extremetech.com...

It's probably nothing new to those of you who follow these things, but it really sparked my interest and got me into a few hours of reading about the Alcubierre drive and what it could really do. Apparently the recent renewed interest (it was originally proposed by Mr. Alcubierre in 1994) is based on the possibility of generating enough energy on-board to make the damn thing work. (originally it was thought the amount of energy to power an Alcubierre drive would be simply impossible to generate on-board a spacecraft).

From various articles and papers I've read, it seems these craft could only be 50-100years away from reality.

Now here's where it gets interesting. Alpha Centauri (nearest star system) is 4.3 light years away, so obviously traveling through space at light speed (a known impossibility) would get us there in 4.3 years. Apparently an Alcubierre drive could put humans into the Alpha Centauri system in TWO WEEKS!!

So I got thinking.... Imagine the places we could go, the things we could see.... dinosaurs!! 6ft dragon flies, neanderthals...and then it dawned on me. Lets say Alpha Centauri Bb does indeed have life, intelligent sentient life. Now lets pretend we can go there tomorrow, two weeks trip and we get to see what these people look like. Where are they in their development? Advanced apes? Primitive cavemen? Building Pyramids? Industrialized?

And here is where it hit me. If they are 100 years ahead of us, ONE HUNDRED tiny years, a blink of an eye really.... Then they already have the technology to reach Earth in TWO WEEKS........

That's just ONE planet, one civilization. Maybe Alpha Centauri Bb only has amoebas right now... maybe... But there are only a few MILLION other potential life harboring planets within a years reach with a warp-drive craft.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The only way we HAVEN'T been visited already is IF... out of those millions of civilizations out there on other planets, we are the absolute most advanced one. Considering the very good chance that life's building blocks got here on a flying rock from somewhere else anyway, I think I'm more likely to win the Lotto twice in a row, than for Humans to be the singular most advanced creatures in all the galaxy...

You're on the right track of course.

I believe that if they exist and if they do space travel, they're not only 100s of years advanced, maybe 1000s if not even a who lot more. They are so advanced that concepts like "distance" etc. don't play whatever role for them, their warp drive may instantly transport them from one side of the galaxy to another. IF they are not so extremely advanced that they, as a life form, are not even dependent on our physical reality any more. So in other words: Whether they're from Alpha Centauri about 5LYs away or from a system that is 50LY years away, it won't matter.

We're still limiting ourselves thinking in terms of our own idea of space/distance and possible technology of course. Nothing wrong with it tho since obviously that's all we can do at that point, but I just don't think "they" wherever they come from need 6 weeks to travel.

Look at the typical "UFO" as reported by many. Does this look like an interstellar space ship to you that's suitable for many weeks if not months of space travel? For me, it doesn't. Some "UFOs" (assuming they are real, of course) are not larger than a car, they sit a couple of beings more like a space capsule, not like an interstellar ship crusing for weeks and weeks. They are either "landers" to visit a planet from a larger ship in orbit..or space travel is so effortless and quick for them that they're really the "VW beetle" of space travel which "every alien has in their garage" and where they can travel everywhere in a second or two. If they can manipulate space/time..it's theoretical possible.

a reply to: 8675309jenny
How I think of it.... Its more luck to find another planet with life. Im sure some one will tell me if Im wrong but if an intelegent race similar to ours where to look out into space and see earth and they are aporx 100light years aware for example... that could mean they are looking at a planet as if it were a 100 years ago? So before our rock was a yellow disco at night.

Same with us now what we see in the outreaches of space is not how it is today. We could be looking at planets that already went full circle... Life began - Intelligent life developed - all got destroyed and the planet is now barren.

And with this type of warp drive tech..... You need to know your destination first. So without knowing which planet to go to because of the distance of light meaning we can only guess if it has life in the first place.

Heck imagine how many other Advanced Species prob just flew right by us and never knew.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

We could very well be the most advanced species in the galaxy. The galaxy is actually a tiny tiny place in comparison to the rest of the universe. It's like a pebble in an ocean. And I don't really consider humans to be that advanced. I mean we cant even stop fighting each other or damaging the planet. Our priorities are way out of whack!

But I would expect there to be more advanced life out there in the universe somewhere. I am personally certain that there is some form of life out there be it bacterial or evolved!

Not sure if they visit us. I'm open to the idea, I mean there is evidence to suggest they have been here. But nothing absolutely solid and because of that I cant be absolutely certain. But if someone tells me they are certain I wouldn't say they are crazy.

And the difference between me being certain of life out there in the universe and not of it visiting us is the sheer overwhelming numbers suggesting its existence.

We've had the technology for a long while to send a probe to Alpha Centuri, and it seriously irks me that we haven't done that. Even without the warp drive, I believe nuclear propulsion systems were able to narrow the trip down to 30-80 years. (I know a large gap but there was various ships on the drawing board.)

Really, really, really, really, really... bugs me. We are talking about another solar system. The closest galactic neighbour we have, and closest place we have for exploring our galaxy.

Just getting the data sent back (albeit with a 5 year lag or so), whether it takes high resolution photos, or simply thousands of lines of data, telling us what's there... that would be, Earth shattering.

One vital problem the warp engine enthusiasts seem to forget is the acceleration. Human body can't withstand high g's for very long. Astronauts experience up to 3g for a few minutes on their way to low-earth orbit, and that's quite a challenge by itself. Accelerating to near-light-speed cannot be done fast, or it will simply smash the human body and squeeze all the juices from it. ... unless I missed something, and the astronaut in such a spacecraft would not experience any acceleration at all.

There are many other dangers and problems: en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: wildespace

Well, if you are in your own bubble of space time, you would not be moving. Correct? It would be the space time in front of, and behind that were doing the moving while you sit stationary In your own little bubble of existance. Therefore inertia is not an issue.

As far as other problems, yes there are other problems. Humans have a tendency to be pretty good at solving them though, so I wouldn't discount the theory just yet.

originally posted by: wildespace
One vital problem the warp engine enthusiasts seem to forget is the acceleration.

And even more squidgy mess when you hit the brakes.

a reply to: nerbot

And not just for the occupants it seems.

The particles picked up on the flight get flung out like a faster than light shock wave.

originally posted by: boncho
We've had the technology for a long while to send a probe to Alpha Centuri, and it seriously irks me that we haven't done that. Even without the warp drive, I believe nuclear propulsion systems were able to narrow the trip down to 30-80 years. (I know a large gap but there was various ships on the drawing board.)

We have never had the tech to do as you believe.
No electronics have ever been designed to last 80 years.
No booster has even been designed to schieve the speeds you would need.
No computer have been designed to calculate the needed numbers to put itself into orbit.

I'm not saying we couldn't if we put the effort like we did with the ISS. As far as I know the electronics longevity is still a deal breaker.
But the bottom line is AlphaCentari is nothing special.

a reply to: 8675309jenny


The Mars jump gate is a time machine. Don't know if you could get to Alpha Centauri.
Even still, Mars instantly is major progress.

originally posted by: wildespace
One vital problem the warp engine enthusiasts seem to forget is the acceleration. Human body can't withstand high g's for very long. Astronauts experience up to 3g for a few minutes on their way to low-earth orbit, and that's quite a challenge by itself. Accelerating to near-light-speed cannot be done fast, or it will simply smash the human body and squeeze all the juices from it. ... unless I missed something, and the astronaut in such a spacecraft would not experience any acceleration at all.

There are many other dangers and problems: en.wikipedia.org...

You got it ENTIRELY wrong and actually miss the point of how a warp drive works : )

The ship will not "move" per se, it is "bending" or "folding" space around it. The ship is really not traversing a distance from A --> B in the conventional sense, therefore all the limitations (acceleration, G forces etc.) don't apply for the inhabitants. The ship only appears to "move" but only for an outside observer. It's really "short-cutting space", so to speak.

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: wildespace

well beat me to it : )

There are about 1.3 million species here on earth, just one is able to reach space (barely)
Sure there is life out there IMO, but intelligent life (capable of space travel) in the neighbourhood, don't think so

originally posted by: samkent

originally posted by: boncho
We've had the technology for a long while to send a probe to Alpha Centuri, and it seriously irks me that we haven't done that. Even without the warp drive, I believe nuclear propulsion systems were able to narrow the trip down to 30-80 years. (I know a large gap but there was various ships on the drawing board.)

We have never had the tech to do as you believe.
No electronics have ever been designed to last 80 years.
No booster has even been designed to schieve the speeds you would need.
No computer have been designed to calculate the needed numbers to put itself into orbit.

I'm not saying we couldn't if we put the effort like we did with the ISS. As far as I know the electronics longevity is still a deal breaker.
But the bottom line is AlphaCentari is nothing special.

Yes we have:

Project Orion

The Voyager probes are going on 4 decades and still going strong. They were built with electronics that are over 40 years old.

Boosters are not used for main space flight, and you would not use a rocket of any kind to get close to the speed of light using solid or liquid propellant. Take a look instead at my link above for Project Orion.

Your last statement about computers?

How in the world do you think we put probes in orbit around Jupiter? Saturn? Communications lag becomes much to great to control the space craft in real time.

Getting a craft in orbit around a planet would be child's play for a computer (my desk top here at home certainly would be able to do it), as long as certain data points are known: Object's mass, object's position, object's path, space craft's mass, fuel, etc).

originally posted by: samkent

originally posted by: boncho
We've had the technology for a long while to send a probe to Alpha Centuri, and it seriously irks me that we haven't done that. Even without the warp drive, I believe nuclear propulsion systems were able to narrow the trip down to 30-80 years. (I know a large gap but there was various ships on the drawing board.)

We have never had the tech to do as you believe.

Yes we do, did. If it had been priority number one, it could have happened.

Project Longshot

Project Longshot was a conceptual design for an interstellar spacecraft, an unmanned probe intended to fly to and enter orbit around Alpha Centauri B, and that would be powered by nuclear pulse propulsion.

Developed by the US Naval Academy and NASA from 1987 to 1988, Longshot was designed to be built at Space Station Freedom, the precursor to the existing International Space Station. Unlike the somewhat similar Project Daedalus, Longshot was designed solely using existing technology, although some development would have been required.

Project Daedalus

Project Daedalus was a study conducted between 1973 and 1978 by the British Interplanetary Society to design a plausible unmanned interstellar spacecraft.[1] Intended mainly as a scientific probe, the design criteria specified that the spacecraft had to use current or near-future technology and had to be able to reach its destination within a human lifetime. Alan Bond led a team of scientists and engineers who proposed using a fusion rocket to reach Barnard's Star, only 5.9 light years away. The trip was estimated to take 50 years, but the design was required to be flexible enough that it could be sent to any of a number of other target stars.

Project Orion

Project Orion was a study of a spacecraft intended to be directly propelled by a series of explosions of atomic bombs behind the craft (nuclear pulse propulsion). Early versions of this vehicle were proposed to take off from the ground with significant associated nuclear fallout; later versions were presented for use only in space.

A 1955 Los Alamos Laboratory document states (without offering references) that general proposals were first made by Stanislaw Ulam in 1946, and that preliminary calculations were made by F. Reines and Ulam in a Los Alamos memorandum dated 1947.[1] The actual project, initiated in 1958, was led by Ted Taylor at General Atomics and physicist Freeman Dyson, who at Taylor's request took a year away from the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton to work on the project.

No electronics have ever been designed to last 80 years.

Voyager still going after 4 decades in space. And it wasn't designed to last nearly that long.

But the bottom line is AlphaCentari is nothing special.

Neither is Mars, Venus, Saturn, Jupiter and all its moons. The romanticism before we actually saw them up close and personal though, is what made it so intriguing and drove interest. And once you realize each new discovery is just another dead rock, you look forward to the next one, which might not be.

Eventually we will send a probe or a manned mission to Alpha Centuri, since it's our closest neighbour. It is the next logical step in space exploration. So the sooner we get that out of the way, the sooner we can move on to even bigger, better projects.

Here's a thought. Think of Kepler and then the years it takes to search through all of it's data and how many planets we've found.

Now take that thought and multiply it. What if we had a dozen keplers but each 1000 years more advanced and computer algorithms so good and so fast that it took days to sift through the data to find habitable planets. Then imagine that we did that for a solid century. We would have a really good map of where all the habitable planets are within a pretty sizable yet searchable area.

None of this requires fantastic leaps of faith. We'll probably be there in a century ourselves. So then, any intelligent life in this part of the Milky way, and there is a good possibility that there could be intelligent life in our part of the milky way. Although, what an "our part" is I'm not sure. It would be pretty easy to pinpoint which planets you'd want to investigate first. It wouldn't be a random search at all but very precise and planned.

I hope this is NOT true. We are everything but intelligent or advance. The ancients in my humble opinion were way more advanced than what we see today. Technology DOES NOT MAKE US ADVANCED. It would be like giving your 5 year old kid your gun and claiming hes a great warrior. This current era of human history is lead by the child of the human family and it is apparent. The only great thing that could come from ET contact would be how disgusted and angry they would be become after realizing what the "child" has done to our earth history, our ancient records, and undoing the time it took to perfect our intrinsic harmonious nature with the universe.

Space is the last place we need to be.
No disrespect to your thread or ATS but, look at where were at. We are still trying to convince people that their are others. Wouldn't this be identical to believing that the sun revolves around us or the idea that the earth is the center of the universe. We have centralized life or the illusion of advance intelligence to this solar system. Same **** different toilet.
ET has always been here, will always be.....

a reply to: 8675309jenny

They are already here....have been for eons...and so far advanced anything we're even discussing regarding them isnt even CLOSE to what their truth is...or their agendas that we cant even imagine because we're off by a few hundred thousand years!

The Alcubierre drive is misdirection - not intended of course. Nuclear propulsion is all we need to get to the stars within a human lifetime. Even with solar sail propulsion, we could reach the nearest stars in ~1000 years (*). That seems a long time, but I think it's doable, given enough know how. Once we create self-replicating space probes, we could populate the galaxy with them in >10 million years. Granted, it's a stretch to believe WE will survive >10 million years, BUT the self-replicating spacecraft might. Either way, if intelligent life is out there in our galaxy then we can expect to find dead alien probes drifting aimlessly in interstellar space, even if intelligent life never bridges the gaps between the stars.

Anyway, my own personal opinion is by the time we can readily reach the stars we'll be able to live on the moon or any planet in our solar system with nearly as much ease as we currently live on Earth. Our bodies will probably change too, in response to our changing living environments. We'll go from being at the mercy of our genetics to engineering them and creating synthetic body parts. We might even be mining He3 in the gas giants. So our principle energy source will be off-planet rather than on. The value of Earth-like planets will plummet, as our ability to survive in hostile environments increases. BUT if we fail to find a better method than using He3 to fuse elements, we'll eventually need to harvest it elsewhere.

I think all of this will take much more time than people are predicting too. Why say this? Because past predictions are usually too bold. For all I know or anyone knows, WE won't be traveling to the stars for 10,000 years. Maybe never. Whether we do or don't, things take longer than expected.

(*) - link shown below:
news.discovery.com - Are Solar Sails the Future of Space Travel?...