Help cash is dying

a reply to: American-philosopher

I hope that when cash does die some hackers get busy and pull off some Fight Club like caper.

Cashless society would be very easy to reset the economy and give everyone the same amount.

a reply to: catt3

well I didnt want to go to abussiness and them tell me sorry we cant do that I just thought that was a banks role to break change. hahah old school I know haha.

originally posted by: American-philosopher
a reply to: Snarl

is that because your put in a situation where you have to use plastic? I mean to me it is about making a lifestyle choice. to those of us who want to defy the "oligarchy" we should live a live that is in defiance of 1984 tactics.

Oh ... I don't know ... I've already accepted my fate, so I'll mostly just stop whining.

I try to carry $100 in US and Korean currencies (thank God for 50,000 Won notes). This has me covered if I wind up in a pub somewhere. Anything else I do is gonna cost more than what one currency will cover. I'm not addicted to ATS, I'm just a Cheap Charlie.

I would love for someone to explain to me how electronic payments are safer. If someone wishes to take my cash they will have to physically take it from me. Someone could take my E-money without me even knowing it. I probably use about half and half, electronic and cash I mean. And maybe it would not even be that money would be stolen from my account, but personal information is still valuable as well. Which is a downside to electronic dealings in my opinion.

cashless society would not be good, you ever get the speech from the guy at the gas station "sorry you have to buy at least $10 worth of stuff to use your card" lol that way they make profit and have made enough to pay the rental on their rented debit credit machine because they do rent those machines from whoever so they can reach a wider array of customers only thing is, is that they want to manipulate it. Ever hear of Wells Fargo they have some sneaky tactics too for example say you use an ATM machine that isn't owned by WF, then that atm WILL charge you a fee say $2.75 well that fee is paid to them and then WF charges you $5.00 for use of a machine that isn't theirs, lol say you only wanted $10.00 for a soda and bag of chips (and 10 bucks today barely covers that) this means you spent $7.75 of your money to get $10.00 of your money, kind of bs because the banks already make money on you having money in them, greed people down right disgusting. Then their will be all the micro schisms as well think about people in jail working on work release do you think they will get anything fair? You have a fine but can't pay it all in one shot, oops pay check to pay check my ass give me all your dough NOW. Think of how it will effect your children in school, taxes, etc they can't get it right with the infrastructure as it is, they cannot simply responsibly handle that type of management and control over you at this point, will they keep striving for it, I think the banks will, the government will just kind of help them along. Cashless society= Not good Idea

It isn't just cash they're doing it with, everything is going digital, electronic or into the cloud.
Think about it.

Music
Books/literature
Movies/tv shows
All of our data
Physical money
Even digitizing galaries & museums online


Everything is being taken away from the people and we're left with copies, facsimile's of things.
One massive solar flare or huge power outage or EOTW/SHTF scenario and we lose all of our knowledge, all our media.
And like Everything else, it's being sold to us as convenience or for our benefit.

I would be very wary of this trend and weigh up the risks..

a reply to: American-philosopher
Banks are evil, their cards are evil.
Lemme splain why, when you use a card, not only are your purchases tracked....every single one.
Also the bank gets like 8 to 10 percent of the merchants money.
So, if the bank gives you 5 percent back, it does not matter as they are still making 3 to 5 percent just for doing nothing other than doling out money that is not theirs for additional interest.
If I need to buy anything online I use a disposable card, sure I pay 5 bucks but the money I have saved in fees and overdrafts and penalties has saved me thousands.
Banks are the oldest form of theft.
They can't live without us, but we can thrive without them!
Dump your bank!

a reply to: American-philosopher

You do not want this society to become a cashless society.

A person's movements, habits, and purchasing preferences are far easier to track if that person uses a card, rather than cash. One should not assume that all of the people with access to a person's card information will always be 100% moral and ethical people. It'd be great if we lived in a world where everyone had good morals, but we do not live in that world.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
I would love for someone to explain to me how electronic payments are safer.

Okay. If someone wishes to take your cash, they will have to physically take it from you. That usually involves the threat, and quite often the actuality, of severe bodily harm. Regardless of whether or not you suffer physical harm, you will in all likelihood not get your cash back. Unless they actually catch the guy and force him to pay restitution, your cash is gone. Likewise, if you lose your wallet, your cash is gone. If your house burns down, all the currency in it is gone (coins might be salvageable). And so on.

If someone wishes to take your deposited money from you, they have to take it from your bank. That does not involve the threat or actuality of physical harm to you. And you will get your money back, provided you notify the bank within the appropriate timeframe. There's a Federal regulation to that effect, and your bank may have even more generous policies (e.g. thirty days to report instead of five, etc.).

There are other ways in which electronic transactions are safer than cash. There are various scams that can be run with cash, which cannot be run with electronic. Electronic transactions can be fraudulent, but they are easier to reverse. Electronic transactions are obviously superior for purchases made over long distances, or for large purchases. They make travel easier, because you do not need to carry large amounts of cash into foreign countries, which can attract unwanted attention. The impact of counterfeiting is reduced.

Really, it is hard to come up with any ways in which cash is safer. More anonymous, yes. But safer, in the sense that it secures your property from loss or theft, no. I guess I am more concerned about practical safety than whether or not Wal-Mart knows what brand of soap I buy.

a reply to: American-philosopher

I think I may be able to clear up some of this for you. I have worked for a multi-billion dollar financial institution for seven years now. The reason that any financial institution will urge you to use a debit card or credit card for purchases is as follows:

The bank is paid by the card servicer (MasterCard, Visa, AMEX, etc) every time you swipe your card. In fact, usually $0.50 a swipe.

Now, in order to get you to use this convenient cash maker, they use marketing tools to persuade you, such as "security" or "convenience". Which is true, if you care about that sort of thing. But what the bank does not tell you is that they make so much money off those card holders, billions in fact, every year.

Also, I would have to agree with you on the idea of cashless banking. In fact, it is coming, I promise you. China saw this coming and that is why they bought up most of the worlds gold over the past decade. Currently in the USA, we clear electronic funds based off an Automated Clearing House (ACH) system. Have you ever walked into your bank, and asked if you could electronically transfer funds to another bank? They will tell you it typically takes 2-3 days if you are doing an ACH transfer or 7 days if you are doing an electronic funds transfer (EFT). Why do you think it takes so long for these funds to transfer? It's electronic, shouldn't that be instantaneously?? Banks would love to have you believe that the reason it takes so long is because it has to go through several electronic channels, blah blah. But this is BS. The reason the banks purposely take so long to transfer these funds is because during that waiting period of the transfer, the save money on not paying interest on that money!! They are looking at over hauling this system to make it an instant electronic funds transfer. To where you can transfer from any bank account, in the world, instantly.

There are also some new cards about to be introduced to the US Baking system in the coming years, they are already in the UK, and supposedly cause faster clearing and safer protection for the user. But the US Banks declined it this year because of the cost associated with it.

The FED is globalizing the monetary system, there is now an international accouting standard organization over seeing world wide accounting. It is coming, and very very soon, I would predict in the next 25 years, we will be looking at one world banking system, along with an ever closer one world government.

Cheers!

originally posted by: schuyler


First of all I would question the sanity of your friend. Why would he want to pay a $50 bill with something worth at least exponentially more? What is gold per ounce today? $1250 per ounce or so? And what's the premium because it was old, a 'piece of 8'? Who is the crazy one here? What if they had said yes?

But I also don't blame the waitress and manager. He was asking them to take something of unknown value to them and ALSO laying the entire burden of exchanging whatever it was that they were being given into something useful, i.e.: cash or even debit-credit they could use to run the business. That "piece of 8" was a lot worse than cash to them. They were starting at ground zero not even knowing where to start to get that piece of whatever-it-was translated into something they could actually use. A 'piece of 8' is not 'legal tender'

You can sit here now with a smirk on your face because you and your friend knew what the piece was really worth, but that depends on your esoteric knowledge few people have. He wasn't being smart; he was being a s***head. He was gambling and happened to win.

In my limited experience of traveling and sailing, I have run across an interesting person or two. A stamped out piece of gold in the form of the legendary 'piece of 8' is essentially worthless to some even though a pawn shop would fork over some fun coupons($100 bills) for that tiny piece of gold. Who is crazy, the man who offered a $1000 piece of gold for a $50 meal or the waitress who refused to accept the bargain.

This person did this because he was confident the restaurant staff would not accept the gold. Had the waitress not complained about how stupid everyone else was perhaps that man would not have been so tempted to have a little fun.

I have been lucky with a lot of past experiences. Very few realize how worthless cash and especially plastic currency truly is. I've rode out a hurricane on a barrier island once, we were lucky and only lost power for a week while some people inland lost power for over 2 weeks. With no electricity obviously debit and credit transactions were useless. Cash has some value because there is faith that order will be restored, however most stocked up on cash before hand anyway. Things like cigarettes, alcohol, ice, generators, fuel all had a lot of value and trade and bartering amongst neighbors who rode out the storm was king, NOT cash.

I used to only use cash from when I was about 16 to about a few years ago till I was about 26, so about tens years I'd only use a credit card or cash, the credit for large purchases and the cash for everything else. Thing was, while I was using the credit card all that time to make purchases over 150 - 200 dollars I didn't realize it would benefit me more if I got a rewards type card, I was only using it to build up good credit. I was sort of, blinded by the whole "cash is king" saying.

Now, and as someone else said, I only use credit card with rewards rebate, sure it has an annual fee, but, I earn more in the end, and they just get that small amount at the end of the year, which is how they want it to be. I only use crash when I travel, because it lets me budget, and it makes me not use plastic to splurge. Other than that, it's swipe all the way for me.

Nope. I usually have less than $20 on me at any given time. I have not written a check in years. And I like it!

a reply to: American-philosopher

It's near impossible to go 100% cashless - It's much better though if you do Not use Any type of Bank in America.

Banks are not your friend. They are in business to make money. They only offer you services they will make money on - for them - not you. so thats a dip into your cash right there. Forget Interest unless you have a chunk you plan to leave in a bank for 40 years in a savings account and don't withdraw it until 40 years later. It's not worth it for a normal checking account. What they charge you in 40 years worth of fees will eat up any interest you may have gotten.

Banks work because YOU loan THEM money. That's the Truth ! Banks will take Your money you deposit and use it to lend to other people or to build more banks and that's how they make money and it's why they even want your business in the first place. All banks are money making scams. Period.

I mention this because many folks today have no clue why they use a bank - they are conditioned to do so at a young are and never question why they are doing it. Most folks do not know banks operate this way to make money, rather they only believe banks offer a service to "keep your money safe".. nothing could be further from the truth.

Now the Push for Electronic Money is because they can easier manipulate electronic money in their favor, more so than they could with cash. It's just another way to steal more of your money.

Credit cards DO NOT WORK. The banks KNOW this and that's why they want you to use them. Most people default at some point overbuying outside of their means and run out of credit - which gives the bank the right to go after folks with stronger legal means and in the end, if you pay it off, you wind up paying more than you should have more than just a fine. They make more money on you this way. Because they know most people reach this point, they can be assured to make even more money from you.

I'm 46 with a wife, kid, house paid off, cars paid off, computers, nice things and we haven't ever used a bank. Never.

Because one has to use some type of debit card for many services today, (should be illegal IMO) we will load up a 3 dollar pre paid walmart type money card and use it when we have to. This allows me the ability to purchase these goods and services while staying in control of my money.

We use cash only when we have to - otherwise we barter and or barter with money to get a more fair price. Ever thought of bartering or haggling with your local Walmart grocer? I do it all the time. Even better.. I go to Save a Lot which is cheaper than walmart and haggle with them. I also trade goods and services for my services in return like cutting grass or painting etc.

There is no reason in this age to supplant cash money with a more corruptible electronic facsimile. I believe that is also against the US Constitution, so I don't think it can ever happen.

originally posted by: jrod

In my limited experience of traveling and sailing, I have run across an interesting person or two. A stamped out piece of gold in the form of the legendary 'piece of 8' is essentially worthless to some even though a pawn shop would fork over some fun coupons($100 bills) for that tiny piece of gold. Who is crazy, the man who offered a $1000 piece of gold for a $50 meal or the waitress who refused to accept the bargain.

This person did this because he was confident the restaurant staff would not accept the gold. Had the waitress not complained about how stupid everyone else was perhaps that man would not have been so tempted to have a little fun.

The point remains the same. The man with the piece of gold was gambling that the waitress and manager would not recognize its value. In essence, both parties were "crazy" but only the original guy actually had full knowledge and knew that. That doesn't erase the fact that paying $1250 for a $50 meal is crazy. When you are using something as a "medium of exchange," both parties have to recognize and agree to the value. That waitress did not know whether that piece of gold was real gold, fool's gold, or a metal painted to look like gold. Without the specialized training necessary to know the difference, and if she turned out to be wrong, she might even lose her job or, at best, be required to pay for the meal herself. At a waitress salary, the gamble was not worth it to her.

You could do the same thing with anything at all. I could offer to pay for the $50 meal with a baggy full of saffron. Visualize me dangling it before your eyes. It's a bunch of yellow fronds of something, but you're not sure what it is, really. I SAY it is saffron, but how do you know? And even if you recognize it as probably saffron, you can't tell if it is Iranian saffron or Turkish saffron, or maybe it's from Crete. So you really can't tell the value, plus, if you take it, you will be faced with having the saffron and convincing someone ELSE of its value so you can turn that saffron into a "medium of exchange" that is actually useful to you and will be accepted by customers, vendors, and everyone else you do business with.

I know that saffron runs $15 per gram and that the baggie is worth several hundred dollars--but only to someone who either wants it BECAUSE it is saffron, or knows he can find a ready market for it. If he can't, it's worthless to him. This is all embodied in the principles of barter. The whole idea can be summarized in the "worth" statements made by the guy who had the gold piece or the guy who had the saffron. What is it WORTH? "SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS." Dollars, not baggies of saffron, not pieces of gold or silver: Dollars. THAT'S the medium of exchange that everything is valued in.

Your friend is like a stock broker with insider knowledge. He makes fun of the waitress who does not have that insider knowledge, but who is the stupid one if the waitress picks up the piece of gold? He is. If he were really the smart guy, he would wait until he could get the full value of $1250 for that coin, not gamble it hoping the waitress did not have the insider knowledge he did. That was a reckless and unnecessary thing to do.

In fact, it is so reckless and so stupid that I doubt the story is real.