For God so loveth the world...

originally posted by: iosolomon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim



Are you sure? And Christians don't see how this whole Church-Christian-Jesus-Cult is exactly what the Apocalypse describes about the Satan charade-- the Beast-- and it's followers, which makes up most of the world. Jesus warns about the European kingdoms and the Church in Revelation and the false teachings and diabolic religion attributed to him that has enslaved billions of people in false bliss. So to the Christians out there, it is allowed to think, not just read and memorise.

Amen brother! (or sister but most likely you are male.) I have been preaching the same thing, but I have been shunned and chastised for it. (I mean, to real-life people.) America, Europe, and Israel are by far some of the most wicked Lands on this planet (as would be viewed by the Biblical God). Yet, the fools who serve this wickedness think they are serving righteousness.



And billsions are enslaved. YES! Billions ARE enslaved! It is my goal to free them all (but, by myself, I cannot do anything). I am glad to see that not everyone in this world is so hopeless.

Let's hear your plan to free them. Where will you go and how will you keep them alive? I dig freedom but what is it you are trying to give them. I seek their salvation and a new life but what are the alternatives?

originally posted by: deadeyedick

Let's hear your plan to free them. Where will you go and how will you keep them alive? I dig freedom but what is it you are trying to give them. I seek their salvation and a new life but what are the alternatives?

Simple. Teach a person how to fish, feed them for a lifetime. Teach the world how to fish!

a reply to: iosolomon

Interesting suggestion. Give everyone the power instead of making a business out of it. Be Ghandi instead of the British Empire, charging everyone out the nose for a handful of salt.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

So basically . . . you've just expanded the quoted example of the OP. However, the expanded version makes as little sense, as simply ending the quote at 3:16

So, is Jesus not a god? Just a sacrificial lamb that god used in order to show his love and mercy? To erase the sins he imposed on us all from birth, based on the actions of a man and woman who lived thousands of years before demonstrating his "mercy"? Again, why the need for sacrifice and what did god actually sacrifice? He sent himself, as human, to die symbolically as a means to forgive humans for his own actions? And, yet, this action only brings salvation to those who believe he is both the father and son . . . and, requires an additional vow of obedience?

So, does god have rules to follow in order to give "forgiveness"? If god is bound by no rules, why couldn't he just forgive without the bloody theatrics? After all . . . if Christianity is not a polytheistic religion . . . Jesus and Yahweh are the same entity, so there is no sacrificed. Nothing was sacrificed because that was not a real son that would be lost . . . it was god, who simply went back to being god.

I would say that god is a piss-poor communicator, if 2000 years after the message 70-80% of the world's population does not buy what Yahweh/Jesus are selling.

originally posted by: iosolomon

originally posted by: deadeyedick

Let's hear your plan to free them. Where will you go and how will you keep them alive? I dig freedom but what is it you are trying to give them. I seek their salvation and a new life but what are the alternatives?

Simple. Teach a person how to fish, feed them for a lifetime. Teach the world how to fish!

And what exactly does that mean?

I find it funny that something so important as human souls or our salvation is left to us by a "god" that mostly speaks in parables and cryptic/esoteric language. If salvation is for all of his creation and it really is a "choice" to obey or not . . . why not make the message crystal clear and make sure everyone in the world has the same access to it? Wouldn't a "loving god" speak clearly and make sure those creature's of "free will" were making an informed decision.

Good parents don't educate their children by only providing cryptic riddles and pointing to "signs" that could be interpreted in a multitude of ways, depending on the person, and then punish their children for not understanding the riddles.

BS artists and charlatans hide behind confusing and cryptic language . . . not honest, caring, loving, merciful fathers.

originally posted by: iosolomon

originally posted by: deadeyedick



Let's hear your plan to free them. Where will you go and how will you keep them alive? I dig freedom but what is it you are trying to give them. I seek their salvation and a new life but what are the alternatives?

Simple. Teach a person how to fish, feed them for a lifetime. Teach the world how to fish!

teach em to fish and they will rape ur waters. it's happenin now. you are dealing with spiritual powers that will bow to no authority and are bent on destruction. in order to get everyone on the same page some will have to be removed. not all can be saved because of hate.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: Utnapisjtim John 3:16 is commentary by the person who wrote ''John''. Besides why would God love the world and then supposedly inspire somebody to write ''don't love the world and anything in it'' (1John). Aren't christians supposed to love what God loves?

In John 3:16, the World is ALL people... For God so loved the world = For God so loved everyone

We see this same concept again in 1 John 2:2 where it says "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." When God says "don't love the world or anything in it", He isn't speaking to not loving people. The word "world" here is being used to say do not love the things of this world... in other words, do not love what this world promotes and condones. The word "world" is used in different contexts, and if you look at the original Greek text you will see that the words are completely different.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You should listen to OptimusSubprime. Notice how he uses CONTEXT to interpret scripture.

This saying should be in the bible as it rings true: "Dieters shall inhibit their girth". Anyhow, so much about religion/bible, etc. confuses me. When bad things happen to good people, you hear folks say, "It is Gods will". The new agers say it is Karma or "We create our own reality". I don't get it. Say a child is tortured and murdered, he created that for himself?. If we could create our own reality, then surely we would all be rich, healthy, happy and beautiful and eternal and such. I would love to create myself as being 20 and healthy and gorgeous.

I could never relate to the statues in church of a man hanging bloody from a cross and yet we are to warship and donate to a religion that uses such a grotesque symbol to put forth its message? How many wars have been started in the name of religion...perhaps all?

originally posted by: solomons path

originally posted by: iosolomon

originally posted by: deadeyedick



Let's hear your plan to free them. Where will you go and how will you keep them alive? I dig freedom but what is it you are trying to give them. I seek their salvation and a new life but what are the alternatives?

Simple. Teach a person how to fish, feed them for a lifetime. Teach the world how to fish!

And what exactly does that mean?



I find it funny that something so important as human souls or our salvation is left to us by a "god" that mostly speaks in parables and cryptic/esoteric language. If salvation is for all of his creation and it really is a "choice" to obey or not . . . why not make the message crystal clear and make sure everyone in the world has the same access to it? Wouldn't a "loving god" speak clearly and make sure those creature's of "free will" were making an informed decision.



Good parents don't educate their children by only providing cryptic riddles and pointing to "signs" that could be interpreted in a multitude of ways, depending on the person, and then punish their children for not understanding the riddles.



BS artists and charlatans hide behind confusing and cryptic language . . . not honest, caring, loving, merciful fathers.

In the end it is very simple. You will either bow and submit or you will not.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim


I think religion has almost completely destroyed the message of Jesus. The church pedestalized him and said "THIS man, and this man ONLY, is the son of God, and Christ is now his last name!", meaning 'not you". But Jesus said very clearly, in John 10:34 :

"For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
Jesus answered them,
"Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS....

I hope not to derail the thread, but this does have some relevance...and it's worth mentioning. The begotten son of God is in all of us. Jesus discovered this fact and died telling everyone else that they too had Christ within them.
Christ isn't exclusively reserved for Jesus. It isn't a person or a deity, It means 'the anointed one' which is in each and every one of us, as it was in Jesus of Nazereth. As opposed to the church's ridiculous use of the word 'anointed' as if it meant a 'skilled preacher of the gospel'.

a reply to: shrevegal the answer seems to be growth through suffering. If i had a debt to pay and could do it while i was young then die and be reborn then i would choose that.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And whose context is that?

Better yet, did any conclusion based on ANY context be pointed out?

The truest scoffers of all, the ones who actually try INCREDIBLY HARD to make sense out of something that really offers no answers, and never will, to anything in this world or beyond.

originally posted by: ParasuvO
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And whose context is that?

Better yet, did any conclusion based on ANY context be pointed out?

The truest scoffers of all, the ones who actually try INCREDIBLY HARD to make sense out of something that really offers no answers, and never will, to anything in this world or beyond.

Hey....psss, your ignorance is showing.

You actually have to read the bible in order to understand the context of it. Pulling verses and mouthing off about how they are sooooo impossible to understand tells me a lot about you, and quite frankly the rest of you commenting with your snide remarks. Perhaps you should know a little bit about something before you grandstand against it. But, that would mean you'd actually have to read the bible. Nope, you would rather smack your gums oozing boring and secondhand opinions that you have obviously ignorantly absorbed from another equally ignorant person. I'm all for good debate, but this is embarrassing. Just a bunch if token keywords and childish phrases that are repeated....Catholic Church is evil...Jesus is a fairy tale....God let's bad things happen.....geez. Grow up.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The verse promises eternal life, not "the world". Your basic premise is flawed, if based on that verse.

Satan promised people could become "like God", not eternal life.

a reply to: lambs to lions
your eloquence shines out above the mad(ding) crowd
BRAVO
Their hearts are hardened against Truth and Love .

God does not want to punish , as in Noahs time ,
... and the three times before that (which I won't mention)

But the ONLY way to overthrow the Beast system IS to
wipe the slate clean , and start again ....
maybe next time purity will prevail ...
HALLELUJAH

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

John 3:16 is commentary by the person who wrote ''John''.

It looks like to me a continuation of what Jesus was saying in verse 15, with verse 16 starting out saying, "Therefore because . . . "
I think it is often interpreted as commentary because he speaks of himself in the third person, but he does that quite a bit where it is obviously Jesus speaking.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

So God only loved the world enough to sacrifice a mere One of his kids for the cause . . .

You are saying exactly the opposite of what the text says.
God gave the most precious and singular thing that He had.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

See, that is why no Christian will go to heaven, you even knw what your mistakes are, you study them and you become them. Wasn't it Paul who said that the law brought evil into the world, since everyone was constantly reminded on sin? The only thing that will bring about eternal life is science, not simply being kind and wait until some billionaire figures Christians should live forever like some practical joke and you kneel to the bastard and praise the Lord as usual.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: Utnapisjtim John 3:16 is commentary by the person who wrote ''John''. Besides why would God love the world and then supposedly inspire somebody to write ''don't love the world and anything in it'' (1John). Aren't christians supposed to love what God loves?

In John 3:16, the World is ALL people... For God so loved the world = For God so loved everyone

And it's the same in Luke 4? The devil owns ALL people? Let's just stay with world being world and leave the interpretation so you don't hurt yourself, huh?