The plan to take down the Illuminati

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

The money trail usually goes to international finance, holdings owned by CEOs and investment bankers, and powerful politicians.

- See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Isn't that basically who you would consider the "Illuminati" if there is such a thing?

Nope, the "illuminati" are supposed to be:
- having a common agenda
- being unknown to the masses
- trying to influence global politics on a long term scale


The people called investment bankers, CEOs and politicians:
- already have names so need to call them "illuminati"
- have no common agenda
- are known to the public
- are mostly selfish and short sighted


The closest to "illuminatis" would be think-thanks and lobbies, and these too are nothing like a monolithic organization.


Again, anyone dumbing down the complexity of international finance and politics to something as naive as "illuminatis" has no understanding of the world we live in, and thus it's pretty normal he starts fantasizing about the powerful and rich people.

I happen to frequent some of these people and it's so funny to read how the common people view them as almost god-like individuals with mystical powers.

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

You frequent them how?

If you have some sort of insider insight, then by all means. Do tell.

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

You frequent them how?

If you have some sort of insider insight, then by all means. Do tell.

I frequent people into international finance and politics because I live in a small country that is also the capital of Europe and these people are not as unapproachable as the conspiracy theorists believe they are.

They really are no different from normal people. Being rich and powerful doesn't turn you into some kind of dr Evil or something.

I'm still waiting for some ATSers people feedback, especially those who said I'm delusional, and would like to know what THEY think "illuminatis" are.

Until you destroy their money flow it will never happen. You have to cut the head off the snake. I'm all for rotting away their monopoly, but I think it will have to be done from the inside. That's where our kids come in. We teach them to infiltrate the banks, wall street, etc., and sabotage everything. It's gonna take a while. Right now, the best thing is to expose them. Many of them don't like exposure. I'm actually making an insignia of the pyramid/all seeing eye with an arrow sticking in the eye and blood coming out. I haven't had time to finish it.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

You frequent them how?

If you have some sort of insider insight, then by all means. Do tell.

I frequent people into international finance and politics because I live in a small country that is also the capital of Europe and these people are not as unapproachable as the conspiracy theorists believe they are.

They really are no different from normal people. Being rich and powerful doesn't turn you into some kind of dr Evil or something.

I'm still waiting for some ATSers people feedback, especially those who said I'm delusional, and would like to know what THEY think "illuminatis" are.

I don't mean to yank your chain but because you frequent international and political people due to the fact that you live in a small country (capital of Europe) that makes you an expert ? I mean coming to a conspiracy board and claiming with such competence that Illuminati doesn't exist and all the rest who think they do are lunatics, (of course that's implied) to me is something that needs to be backed up extensively. Do you mind to elaborate in that other than just a bold claim?

Thanks

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

You frequent them how?

If you have some sort of insider insight, then by all means. Do tell.

I frequent people into international finance and politics because I live in a small country that is also the capital of Europe and these people are not as unapproachable as the conspiracy theorists believe they are.

They really are no different from normal people. Being rich and powerful doesn't turn you into some kind of dr Evil or something.

I'm still waiting for some ATSers people feedback, especially those who said I'm delusional, and would like to know what THEY think "illuminatis" are.

I don't mean to yank your chain but because you frequent international and political people due to the fact that you live in a small country (capital of Europe) that makes you an expert ? I mean coming to a conspiracy board and claiming with such competence that Illuminati doesn't exist and all the rest who think they do are lunatics, (of course that's implied) to me is something that needs to be backed up extensively. Do you mind to elaborate in that other than just a bold claim?

Thanks

First, I don't claim to be an expert, only probably better informed than the average ATSers. Also I don't only know "international people", I specifically talked about international finance. It is also part of my degree so I think I'm qualified to talk about international finance and the current system we live in, since I studied it. Secondly, I just did not pop here out of nowhere, I've been into conspiracy theories for almost 20 years and most of my life and career has been aimed at understand the world better, macro and micro. I had a few more accounts before this one, here and on other boards. So know that pretty much everything that is claimed about the "illuminati" is familiar to me.

I think I already explained my position in much details, and how I believe the illuminati are just convenient scapegoats, like sometimes the jews or the foreigners. As a concept, the illuminati conspiracy is sterile because there is nothing you can do about it. Unlike international finance or politics. Its funny how some claim the illuminati control the world but as soon as we try to talk about regulating more international finance, many Americans are opposed to it and scream "communism" and things like that. These people needs to understand that if we give carte blanche to the biggest companies and fortunes, of course they will use it to get richer, at the detriment of you and me.

If you are against the current system then you are against the ultra liberal paradigm pushed forward by Washington and London, and maybe you should revise where you really want to be on the political chessboard. It's not a fatality, and all we need is simply more rules, meaning more regulations, instead of letting everybody do what they want in the financial world.

If some want to discuss this or how there is no worldwide and all powerful cabal, only greedy businessmen and politicians, feel free to ask me anything.

On the other hand, I'm still waiting answers to MY questions, because I have tried to expose my views clearly but I still can't see anything about what and who you guys think the illuminatis are (this name is attached to many different things) and how they do to control this chaotic world from the comfort of their evil lair. All I see is "they are real!" and "we must bring the whole system down!"


Sincerely, if you have anything valuable to bring to table, please do it. I clicked on your link and all I see is "say no to illuminatis and NWO", then some article about the pyramids and the hollow earth theory. I've seen nothing supporting the existence of a secret cabal governing the world.

Also I don't think I should back more my claim that "illuminati" are not an organized cabal as much as a complex web of rich people simply taking advantage of the laws of the free market, while no one in this thread so far backed THEIR claims that "illuminatis" as an organization are real.

That's quite a one-sided argument to ask me more when I already posted so much, while no one else posted anything remotely interesting about supposed illuminatis.

a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

As you already said, 20 years on the subject and reading most of what it is out there I guess is enough to explain the meaning of Illuminati. Personally I see it pointless to ask others in this board if you already have analyzed the concept before.

If you don't think that a handful of few is controlling an entire planet of 7 billions then I guess here we have just a different viewpoint with border line consensus blindness. Being 20 years on the subject and not able to see it as of yet is enough for the argument you present. And enough for me as an educated person.

Illuminati is just a name. Focusing on its existence or not doesn't prove that the world is not being controlled and just a handful of bastards have made the life for the rest of us almost unbearable.

originally posted by: Telos
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

As you already said, 20 years on the subject and reading most of what it is out there I guess is enough to explain the meaning of Illuminati. Personally I see it pointless to ask others in this board if you already have analyzed the concept before.

If you don't think that a handful of few is controlling an entire planet of 7 billions then I guess here we have just a different viewpoint with border line consensus blindness. Being 20 years on the subject and not able to see it as of yet is enough for the argument you present. And enough for me as an educated person.

Illuminati is just a name. Focusing on its existence or not doesn't prove that the world is not being controlled and just a handful of bastards have made the life for the rest of us almost unbearable.

Why can't you just develop your ideas? To provide more substance to just an opinion?

Who do you call the illuminatis? The Bavarian? The masons? The Fed? The UN? The Rothschild? The Bilderberger?

You can't just put them all in a big bag, stick an "illuminati" label on it and claim "voià!". These people exist as individual people and groups, and they have sometimes conflicting agendas. If you claim they work together you have to explain more.

originally posted by: Telos
Illuminati is just a name. Focusing on its existence or not doesn't prove that the world is not being controlled and just a handful of bastards have made the life for the rest of us almost unbearable.

Ask yourself why you consider this world unbearable, what caused it, and what is necessary to change it.

I told you the solution is plain simple: less de-regulation. If you give the most powerful total freedom, why wouldn't they use it?

If you would like more power to the people (instead of only the rich), that means more power to the state, that means a leftist stance. Are you aware of that? Are you aware that it requires the US and UK to be more leftist to stop this tendency?

Every try to regulate the banking sectors or to tax financial speculation has always been vetoed by the US and UK govt (because they are the biggest financial exchange markets). If you don't like the position of your gov, maybe it's time to change who you vote for?

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Telos
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

As you already said, 20 years on the subject and reading most of what it is out there I guess is enough to explain the meaning of Illuminati. Personally I see it pointless to ask others in this board if you already have analyzed the concept before.

If you don't think that a handful of few is controlling an entire planet of 7 billions then I guess here we have just a different viewpoint with border line consensus blindness. Being 20 years on the subject and not able to see it as of yet is enough for the argument you present. And enough for me as an educated person.

Illuminati is just a name. Focusing on its existence or not doesn't prove that the world is not being controlled and just a handful of bastards have made the life for the rest of us almost unbearable.

Why can't you just develop your ideas? To provide more substance to just an opinion?

Who do you call the illuminatis? The Bavarian? The masons? The Fed? The UN? The Rothschild? The Bilderberger?

You can't just put them all in a big bag, stick an "illuminati" label on it and claim "voià!". These people exist as individual people and groups, and they have sometimes conflicting agendas. If you claim they work together you have to explain more.

Who said I'm not developing my ideas? I already said in my post, the name Illuminati to me is not important. Whether are called Illuminati, X or Y etc doesn't change anything. Denying the concept because of the name to me is plain logical fallacy.
I know the thread is about ILLUMINATI but it might as well be "illuminati".

originally posted by: Telos
Who said I'm not developing my ideas? I already said in my post, the name Illuminati to me is not important. Whether are called Illuminati, X or Y etc doesn't change anything. Denying the concept because of the name to me is plain logical fallacy.
I know the thread is about ILLUMINATI but it might as well be "illuminati".

You don't explain how all these influential groups work together to enforce a common agenda.

All you say is simply "they" control the world but not how.

If a handful of people control the whole world, how come they are so bad at doing it? How come there is always conflicting voices in all the international deciding organs?

You claim it's real but everything about the world shows there is no captain in the boat, only tons of different people with different agendas.

You know the truth? The rich and powerful are SCARED about the masses. They know they can fall from grace at any moment. All they try to do is amass as much money as they can for their children as long as laws allow them to.

They do exactly the same as nearly anyone on earth, they just do it on a bigger scale, because they can.




You can be mad about the rich having no ethics, I am too. It doesn't mean there is nothing you can do about it, nor does it mean they control the world.


And again, you don't even give the slightest hint who do you believe they are. Bankers? Masons? The US administration? A few rich families? The Jesuits?

Maybe you don't know it yourself after all and your refusal to even point in one direction is simply because you have 0 idea?

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Telos
Who said I'm not developing my ideas? I already said in my post, the name Illuminati to me is not important. Whether are called Illuminati, X or Y etc doesn't change anything. Denying the concept because of the name to me is plain logical fallacy.
I know the thread is about ILLUMINATI but it might as well be "illuminati".

You don't explain how all these influential groups work together to enforce a common agenda.

All you say is simply "they" control the world but not how.

You just wrote that you've been on the subject for 20 years. IF you still have not gotten any idea on how they work together then how can you expect me make a point in few lines?

If a handful of people control the whole world, how come they are so bad at doing it? How come there is always conflicting voices in all the international deciding organs?

That's a degree in opinion. You think they're doing a bad job. I think they're doing a great job since us are broke and them have amassed such wealth to last for many generations. It's very infantile to use as argument the fact that they apparently have conflicting voices. Have you ever heard about appearances?

You claim it's real but everything about the world shows there is no captain in the boat, only tons of different people with different agendas.

Again, is a degree in opinions. The way prices hike the same world wide, the way how the controlling mentality is presented world wide and especially the way masses are manipulated through MMS it leads me to believe that agenda/s are the same and well under the same controlling hand.

You know the truth? The rich and powerful are SCARED about the masses. They know they can fall from grace at any moment. All they try to do is amass as much money as they can for their children as long as laws allow them to.

They do exactly the same as nearly anyone on earth, they just do it on a bigger scale, because they can.

This people are above the law and use the existing laws as tools to their amusement. And no, anyone on earth is not trying to amass wealth, is trying to survive, pay taxes, put food in the table for their families and praying to be left in peace to have a "normal" life. Big difference if you might ask.

You can be mad about the rich having no ethics, I am too. It doesn't mean there is nothing you can do about it, nor does it mean they control the world.

I'm not m ad because rich have no ethics. I mad because we allow them not to have any ethics. And the first step is by denying that they have control over us.

And again, you don't even give the slightest hint who do you believe they are. Bankers? Masons? The US administration? A few rich families? The Jesuits?

Maybe you don't know it yourself after all and your refusal to even point in one direction is simply because you have 0 idea?

After 20 years you still ask this question? Dude, are you here to kill the thread, make jokes and pass your time?

originally posted by: Telos


After 20 years you still ask this question? Dude, are you here to kill the thread, make jokes and pass your time?

20 years of research showed me this conspiracy theory (among many others), was BS.

I'm dead serious when I ask you to develop your beliefs.

You asked me to explain my position, which I did, but you refuse to share yours?

You're funny.



All you posted is proof of control. I never said powerful people and group did not exist.

All I said is ONE SINGLE CABAL CONTROLLING EVERYTHING does not exist. Only plenty of different groups that I even named. And they don't work together.

You should read more carefully.

I'm not m ad because rich have no ethics. I mad because we allow them not to have any ethics. And the first step is by denying that they have control over us.

That wouldn't change a damn thing.

The first step is to force ethical conducts in business practices through regulation.

sorry your vision of the world is a caricature from a conspiracy board.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Telos


After 20 years you still ask this question? Dude, are you here to kill the thread, make jokes and pass your time?

20 years of research showed me this conspiracy theory (among many others), was BS.

I'm dead serious when I ask you to develop your beliefs.

You asked me to explain my position, which I did, but you refuse to share yours?

You're funny.

Good. Have a great day then.

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Telos


After 20 years you still ask this question? Dude, are you here to kill the thread, make jokes and pass your time?

20 years of research showed me this conspiracy theory (among many others), was BS.

I'm dead serious when I ask you to develop your beliefs.

You asked me to explain my position, which I did, but you refuse to share yours?

You're funny.

Good. Have a great day then.

Lol, my questions do embarrass you, don't they?

You can't answer them so you prefer to simply leave?

Okay.

Funny coming from someone who claimed I backed nothing of what I said. Double standards, irony and all that


If there is one thing that has not changed, it's consipracy theorists who refuse to confront their ideas because they simply can't imagine to be wrong


I'm open if anyone wants to really discuss and share and challenge me.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts


Lol, my questions do embarrass you, don't they?

originally posted by: Telos
I think they're doing a great job since us are broke and them have amassed such wealth to last for many generations. It's very infantile to use as argument the fact that they apparently have conflicting voices. Have you ever heard about appearances?

The reason Americans are broke has nothing to do with "illuminatis" and everything to do with 2 things:

- American economy works only because Americans consume more than they can afford, they are always in debt.
- the sub-prime crisis revealed in plain light the fragility of the American economy that was based on the illusion that growth is always a given.


No, people are not broke in western countries, and the rich did not force the masses into being poor. As I said, they are simply smarter than the majority, and know that financial independence and wealth acquisition is nothing but a game you must understand to take part in it.

If those who have jobs want to get more money at the end of the month, they should probably start reading books about personal finance instead of blaming it on imaginary Illuminati. Bankers and insurances can only abuse people who have no idea what the technical lingo means, exactly like a mechanic can scam you too by using a few technical words.

And if it's unemployment the problem, it's a whole other debate but again more regulation can fix it.


Ignorance is never an excuse.

The rich are simply people like you and me who knows how the financial game works. It's not a closed club and anyone can join if you are willing to learn about it.

The truth is that most people simply are to lazy to care about it (and yet they blame the rich for everything).



My position is more nuanced. I don't blame the rich as much as I blame London and Washington to allow for an ultra-liberal system that only favors a few rich individuals who know how to take advantage of it.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

I'm open if anyone wants to really discuss and share and challenge me.

I would, but I seem to agree with you. If there was an "Illuminati" and they were around for a long time doing "illuminati" stuff, then the NWO or "new world order" would already be a reality. Unfortunately, we still have the need to try to intervene in other countries affairs and provoke war. So no NWO.

I even joined the masons to find out how they are ruling the world. Unfortunately, they aren't. But you do get some cool hats.

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts


Lol, my questions do embarrass you, don't they?

Prove me wrong then and answer my previous simple questions. No need for big sentences, just a few key concepts:

- Who are the illuminati? In what sector are they represented? Finance, politics, masons, all?
- How many are we talking? 10? 100? 1000? 10000?
- How do they do to enforce their agenda at a global and international level?