Veteran is beaten to death by five cops

a reply to: HandyDandy

Many of them are. Try looking for it.

Are all of them? Probably not.

I've a question for you, and the rest of you "they're all bad" lot...

Who is to blame here? Bad cops? Certainly they're to blame, and should be held accountable for their actions.

The city councils who hire the guys who hire them? Certainly they should come in for their fair share of accountability.

How about the voters who put the city councils into office? Oh, wait, what voters... Most of us can't be bothered to be involved at any level of civic responsibility... Never mind.

a reply to: seagull

How about training?
That is what this all boils down to.
Training and employment screening, do the voters decide that?

a reply to: Sremmos80

They certainly decide upon who makes up those guidelines, or approves them.

Nothing of this sort happens in a vacuum. Ultimately, we all share some of the blame. But that's not as much fun as screaming "they're all bad"...is it?

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: HandyDandy

Many of them are. Try looking for it.

Are all of them? Probably not.

I've a question for you, and the rest of you "they're all bad" lot...

Who is to blame here? Bad cops? Certainly they're to blame, and should be held accountable for their actions.

The city councils who hire the guys who hire them? Certainly they should come in for their fair share of accountability.

How about the voters who put the city councils into office? Oh, wait, what voters... Most of us can't be bothered to be involved at any level of civic responsibility... Never mind.

Give me a break.

I vote.

I don't vote for the laws though. And if you think I have a choice to do that you are sadly mistaken. You see, I live in DC where we are subject to taxation WITHOUT representation.

I know...I know...that's my fault too because I should have voted more.

Please.

I hope all you boot lickers are the next to get your doors kicked in, grandmother shot and spend the night in jail bloody for being innocent.

a reply to: HandyDandy

Why should I give you a break?

You vote? Hey, more power to you. But there's more to it than just flicking a lever every couple of years... It's called going to the meetings. Most if not all city council meeting are public forums that allow public feedback. Are you there?

Are you calling the cops/their bosses on their behaviour? Are you?

Civic involvement is much more than voting. That's only a start.

You voted for the folks who decide the laws. Are you giving them feedback? They're hiring the guys who hire the police you seem to so despise... Are you attending the council meeting where these things are discussed?

Civic involvement is seeing the problem, and at the very least attempting to do something about. Something other than calling people who dare to disagree with you "bootlickers".

a reply to: seagull

They get their chance to offer their suggestion of who they want, and of course those officials never lie about what they are going to do once they get into office

But that is an entirely different thread

a reply to: HandyDandy

No I don't. That's why I asked.

If that's condescending, I apologize.

a reply to: Sremmos80

You are correct. A politician lie? Oh, noes....

That's why we need to be involved at every level. We're supposed to, that's our job as citizens, isn't it?

a reply to: seagull

So, let's hear what your solution to all this is then.

I'm all ears.

How many laws have you had changed by attending council meetings?

How many policemen are behind bars because you attended council meetings?

let's start with just those questions.

a reply to: seagull

IMO those citizens that are standing up in those meetings are still not getting their voice heard cause of the blue code.
All the issues that those people bring up get dealt with in house and our officials are ok with that since it saves them face and now they can get reelected.

Also take a look at what is going down in the Albuquerque meetings, sure they might have gone overboard but that is their right is it not?

a reply to: HandyDandy

There is no one solution. That's up to you, and me, and anyone who cares enough to get involved.

Given your reaction, you care deeply. That's to be commended.

I live out west. Small town. Nothing even resembling DC...thank God. A solution that would/might work here, may not have a snow balls chance in hell of working in a large metropolitan bureaucracy, with generational entrenched interests...

You are much more likely to come up with something that works for your area than I am... Wish I had the answers.

Part, and it's only part, is getting better training procedures put through. Psychological screenings before their career starts, during their career on as many occasions as can be rammed through the unions. But most of all, and I know I'm sounding like a broken record here, there needs to be, on all levels; community overwatch. Someone, preferably many someone's, need to watch the watchers.

I don't know if DC has one, or not, but many large cities have civilian oversight councils, whose sole mandate is watching the police. That's a possibility.

But most of all, to combat police corruption, you have to make a loud noise, and keep making that noise 'til they, or their bosses, listen...

How many policemen are behind bars because you attended council meetings?

Not behind bars, but fired? One. For harassment. The story is around here on ATS somewhere.

I know we got off to a rough start here... Again, my apologies. This is an issue that frustrates me greatly, at times.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

originally posted by: seagull
I know we got off to a rough start here... Again, my apologies.

I am as much to blame as you are. I apologize with my sincerest regrets. You seem like a great moderator and person in general.

This is an issue that frustrates me greatly, at times.

Me too if you can't tell.

And you think Police of this mentality would have a problem going along with a scheme to take away your guns, and make their job easy, like Sandy Hook?

a reply to: Mamatus

a reply to: Mamatus

When i was in the force there was a saying that you can not trust another with your money or your wife but you could with your life. That was true till today. When the sht hit the fan you knew your buddies will have your back and risk life and limb for you and you for them.
Now my question - Usa vets why do you no longer have one another back? Where is the will and the spirit? I bet there are enough of you back home from tours fighting for support a chance to be back in society. Gang up you have the experience and the training why not use it? God dam stop sitting and crying about what is done to you. You know how to stop that.
This humiliation will not stop till bad cops start to turn up in dumpsters. it is time for an eye for an eye.

a reply to: Sremmos80

IMO those citizens that are standing up in those meetings are still not getting their voice heard cause of the blue code.
All the issues that those people bring up get dealt with in house and our officials are ok with that since it saves them face and now they can get reelected.

All your points are too true. I don't deny them. I'm not saying there aren't problems. My own experience tells me that. Any changes that have to be made aren't going to be easy. Nor fast. It's going to take years. The larger the force, the more entrenched the blue line will be.

In house enforcement isn't suitable for many of these problems. It has to be done by an outside, unimpeachable, group, or groups. That civilian oversight group that I mentioned earlier. That's at least a start. If that doesn't work, your state attorney generals office. But whatever the group, you have to stay on top of them. Any political group, no matter how well intended, generally go along to get along.

Also take a look at what is going down in the Albuquerque meetings, sure they might have gone overboard but that is their right is it not?

It is.

Y'know, we're not so far apart as it appears at first. Or so it appears to me.

originally posted by: HandyDandy

originally posted by: intrepid
The percentage of bad cops is small.

THEY ARE ALL BAD!!!!!!

Unless you want to point me to where police are starting to arrest other police. ???????????

So if all of them are bad for not doing more then we as civilians are just as guilty. If we just stand by not doing a thing to help our own maybe we should all be punished then.

Everyone is so brave on there computer when talking about the police but not one of you will do or say anything except grab your cameras and phones so you can video it and post it online and then bitch and moan, again.

a reply to: seagull

Y'know, we're not so far apart as it appears at first. Or so it appears to me.

Crazy how civil conversion works out like that huh?

I grew up in a small city . 50 years ago 95% of police officers were like Andy Griffith off of Mayberry . I never once worried or felt scared of interaction with police officers. But now I avoid cops at all costs. Dealing with cops increases your risk of a beating 100% if you are in the wrong 500%.

But over the years seeing family ,friends or people our family knows get Rodney Kinged for diabetic issues, epileptic seizures , and trying to cover up a passed out drunk with a blanket on a -10f night .

I saw the drunk man passed out 6" snow and -10f out behind where I worked. Called cops just like many times before didnt want him to die . The cops would take them to detox. Cop gets there and trys to wake him no good cop gets back in car and talks on the radio 30 min goes by I felt sorry for the guy so I go out with a blanket for the old guy. Try to put the blanket on him then s hit the fan disturbing a crime scene interrupting an investigation the drunk was alive I called them to help him not sit in a warm cruiser and watch him freeze to death. Argument ensued beating and arrest followed. After that when it happened again we would call paramedics or try to get the detox directly to intervene .

I have seen our Police Force go from 95% Andy Griffith to 99% who think they are Judge Dread.

I use to believe Police most of the time now I take there statements with a grain of salt every one of these incidents remind me something has to be done.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Indeed.