Air Force Bombshell: Admits they can control weather

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: luxordelphi

This paper is trying to show that the more powerful AGWs propogate from the ionosphere to the troposphere. This while their motion is horizontal.

You do understand they are talking about solar winds and nothing to do with HAARP.

Might I also add this is just a theory, but again what does this have to do with HAARP and controlling the weather?

Unless you are trying to say we can control the sun and it's solar winds.

Ours are measuring times. Interpretation of our measurements often include pre-supposed quantities measured for us by other measurers. So we can measure electron density or electron spin. And attribute these to cosmic rays/solar wind/gamma rays/tropospheric outgassing, using data for these events collected by others.

An electron, though, is not standing up and shouting out: "I got hit by the solar wind and that's why I'm spinning faster."

Faith in other data runs into trouble when you can't find enough oomph to justify results. Similar to how several times it was back to the drawing board to find enough sulphur injected into the atmosphere to justify actual ppm results.

So I put up the link, originally, to show another poster that the ionosphere is not a stand alone area but is actually connected to weather systems. In doing so, it occurred to me that these people could actually be measuring the effects of HAARP, which does the same thing: agitates the ionosphere. They wouldn't really have a way to know, or... they would.

a reply to: luxordelphi

Ours are measuring times. Interpretation of our measurements often include pre-supposed quantities measured for us by other measurers. So we can measure electron density or electron spin. And attribute these to cosmic rays/solar wind/gamma rays/tropospheric outgassing, using data for these events collected by others.

You are just trying to throw whatever you can against a wall and hope that something sticks aren't you?

Nothing in this post has anything to do with HAARP except for your edit where you had to put that in so it looks like your still on topic.

Keep going this is fun to watch.

No. Rising warm air is what forms storm clouds. It is saying that cloud bands indicate the presence of gravity waves. Like this:
eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov...

a reply to: Phage

Well...that's not really what this paper says. It says that there's a link between solar wind, the ionosphere and weather in the troposphere. They're linked because the atmospheric gravity waves in the ionosphere descend to the troposphere.

Once in the troposphere, in a weakened state, they can revive, regaining strength from the wind. (Wind like the jet stream.) (Wind like hurricane winds.)

There is nothing in there about cosmic rays. Oh, I see, you think ray-tracing has to do with cosmic rays. No, it's a mathematical method of analyzing waveform propagation.

The whole paper, in a sense, is about cosmic rays because cosmic rays are still first choice for this propagation because the solar wind is not always available and/or there are problems getting into the troposphere and/or gravity waves were too weak. But cosmic rays have so far not co-operated.

solar wind influences on mid-latitude tropospheric circulation have been found [7,8,9] although a possible cause-effect mechanism has remained unknown or has been attributed to cosmic ray flux modulation by the solar wind. Recently, the possibility that cosmic rays influence the cloud nucleation process has been raised once again [10,11], but the controversy surrounding these new results has not been resolved [12,13].

And, forever, it was the pulse that got me. (The heater in Gakona and the Yukon wanderers with the scatter radar reminded me of the Eiscat set-up where they have the facility to heat and another one to measure.)

Then why does it spend so much time talking about the high speed solar wind and making no mention of HAARP?

Siriusly? The thread OP had a video of the air force guy telling congress that they have control of the ionosphere and are now phased into management. Other posters took that to mean that the military are well on their way to owning the weather and the ionosphere. You took it to mean...I don't know what you took it to mean. You had a disconnect between weather and the ionosphere. I put up this link to show you that they're joined at the hip. Since control of the ionosphere was never a stated HAARP aim (they were communicating with submarines - remember?), why would they be telling us what to look for i.e. what the manifestations of this control are?

I say, that as usual, you use your lack of understanding to twist the actual science to fit your world view. You should try a different approach, taking the time and making the effort to understand what the science actually says. Then you can take the next step.

My world view? I should continue to dust off my old text books then and ignore this:

eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov...

which both Eastlund and the air force are telling me is HAARP spawned?

a reply to: luxordelphi

Well...that's not really what this paper says. It says that there's a link between solar wind, the ionosphere and weather in the troposphere.

Yes, I know what the paper says. You asked about a part of a paragraph from it. I told you what it said and included an explanation about what forms storm clouds.

The whole paper, in a sense, is about cosmic rays because cosmic rays are still first choice for this propagation because the solar wind is not always available and/or there are problems getting into the troposphere and/or gravity waves were too weak. But cosmic rays have so far not co-operated.

You mean that there is not much evidence to support the hypothesis? Or do you mean that "they" want to use cosmic rays to control weather?

You had a disconnect between weather and the ionosphere. I put up this link to show you that they're joined at the hip.

You have a speculative study based on a single instance of the formation of cloud bands roughly correlated with gravity waves produced by the fast solar wind. Correlation does not imply causality. There may or may not be a causal connection.

Since control of the ionosphere was never a stated HAARP aim (they were communicating with submarines - remember?)

No they weren't. The stated purpose of HAARP was the manipulation (control) of a region of the ionosphere for research in various avenues.

why would they be telling us what to look for i.e. what the manifestations of this control are?

Huh? There are hundreds of papers about it.

which both Eastlund and the air force are telling me is HAARP spawned?

Do you hear voices often? Those clouds are in the Indian Ocean, in the southern hemisphere...in 2003...when HAARP had 48 antennas...960 KW.

The stratocumulus cellular clouds that underlie the wave feature are associated with sinking air that is strongly cooled at the level of the cloud-tops—such clouds are common over mid-latitude oceans when the air is unperturbed by cyclonic or frontal activity. This image is centered over the Indian Ocean (at about 38.9° South, 80.6° East), and was acquired on October 29, 2003.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

originally posted by: luxordelphi

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: luxordelphi
Eastlund was spot on with his assessment of ionospheric heating capabilities i.e. altering the jet stream; lifting the ionosphere; modifying and creating weather.

Wait, I looked at your links. I must have missed the one that explains how HAARP modified the weather.
Unless you have to "extrapolate" some hidden meaning from each article.

(please pay attention to the way you wrote that sentence. It's almost like you wanted to display it as a fact or something.)

Please see my post just previous. And the one previous to that. In the recent past, less powerful acoustic gravity waves (AGWs) have been shown to propogate from the troposphere to the ionosphere. This paper is trying to show that the more powerful AGWs propogate from the ionosphere to the troposphere. This while their motion is horizontal.

And, while Eastlund rocks, he was not a friend to humanity. If he had been he would have kept his discoveries out of military hands.

Your paper calls them atmospheric gravity waves. (AGW) Which is vastly different then acoustic.

But as has been mentioned, it's discussing the solar wind affecting the ionosphere.

Of course it's possible that some discovery has been made, but all the data that has been displayed, says nothing at all about HAARP, and since it's not running anymore, it's kind of a non-issue.