Parents of ATS: I need your help...In a desperate way, I need your help!

Being a kid from the 70s.. Let that backhand swing away!

a reply to: ThePublicEnemyNo1

Hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha! Your 15 year old didn't write that. I'd bet moneys on it. MONEYS. The things we do to justify ourselves. =]

As for the OP, I agree with other posters here. Give him a little space. When you do concede to his requests for, for example, more computer/video game time, or a later curfew, don't just give in - instead bargain with him. Show him that you are willing to meet him in the middle, but it has to be a win-win situation. Don't let him walk all over you, but be willing to be flexible and make him know that he has to give up something in return for what he wants.

Normal brotherly violence is.. well, normal. But if it's going beyond what should be expected from boys that age it should absolutely not be tolerated.

I also agree that perhaps ATS isn't the best place to get this advice. I know people hate to hear it, but sometimes counseling where he has sessions both with and without you will help him communicate his reasoning better. If he can find a friend in his counselor, that person can act as a mediator and help you both come to common ground.

It's absolutely normal for a pre-teen/teen to rebel a little. Ask yourself if his level of rebellion is really that abnormal or are your expectations perhaps a little skewed. I'm not saying they are, I'm just saying you should really analyze the situation from both sides very carefully, if you haven't already.

Best thing you can do you already know about - just be there for him, support him, show him the correct path and how to best traverse it. Just like 99.9999% of all other humans, he will gain the wisdom to appreciate you as he grows older.

Good luck!

a reply to: Fisherr

I absolutely love it!!! I myself, am a kid from the 70's and couldn't agree more. I assumed the OP either doesn't do hands on punishment or she had already tried it. I could be wrong on both counts though.

I got a backhand from my mother when I was about 14. I smarted off when we were going down the road, the next thing I know... Bam! Bloody lip and all. That was the only time I ever received more than a spanking. It didn't hurt in the physical sense. But I was broken hearted that I had pushed her that far. She had the patience of Job. Really. The look in her eyes told me she was just as broken hearted. It was the VERY LAST time I smarted off. I am still terrified of my mother. Lol

In all seriousness, it is a healthy respect I gained that day. I completely deserved it and looking back, I can not believe it took her so long to reach her limit with me. We are best friends now that I am grown with kids of my own.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

He's still a bit young to let go...BUT, you have to let him grow up. Not an easy thing to do at all. So far you seem like a very good parent however, sometimes we can hinder our children while protecting them from "everything" not realizing that we are paralyzing the very human being we love more than anything, especially as mothers.

The reality is...you can't and we can't protect them from everything, every time...ever! It's not possible, it's just not plausible. He will be a grown man one day. Let him grow up. You and his father need to figure out how to keep him in check and I mean in "CHECK". It sounds to me like an emergency, so you better get to "checking him" right now!

I'm not talking down to you, please don't take it that way. However, if you as parents are not strong for him, he will be weak in the future.

Take care and I wish you the best

a reply to: TinkerHaus

Uh...yeah, my 15 year old did write that.

I have nothing more to say to you.

ETA
Actually, I do have more to say to you...I can't let that ridiculous comment by you slide. If it bothers you that I have a child that is able to read this OP and then comprehend another child's troubles and pains, then maybe you should pay attention to society a tad bit more since you would "Bet Moneys On IT". I'll take your money all day. Where do I place my bet?

I'm insulted that you or anyone else would think that I would make an attempt to "trick" another member in such a way. Thank you though for admiring my son who is endowed with wisdom and acknowledging his compassion.

For many kids, if you put up a bunch of barriers, limits, restrictions, they are going to protest, try and push those limits and cross over the barriers. The minute those restrictions and barriers are gone, they are going to feel insecure and stay closer to the middle. Also, the things that were once off limits are no longer enticing. Especially, if mom and dad are encouraging it.

Do away with some rules that you feel comfortable getting rid of (let him play video games as much as he wants on Saturdays) and encourage him to participate in the activities that were once breaking the rules. It will seriously kill some of the bad boy steam he has, and give him bragging rights to make him look cool in front of his friends. (which is what this really seems to be about) You would be surprised what a boy that age will do to impress a girl and his friends.

I was the mom that bugged my kids about video games. "Hey, I just spent $20 on that game, why aren't you playing it." No need to monitor their video game time because they put self imposed restrictions on themselves.

A little reverse psychology goes a long way.

I went from living with my grandparents and their extreme evangelical christian ways to going back and living with my drug addict mom who was to high to impose any rules. I became the most cautious, worried kid around. I was the one telling my friends to watch the speed limit and gave myself a self imposed curfew. That is where I learned that kids get nervous when you take restrictions they are used too and impose them on themselves.
If they weren't used to the restrictions to begin with, it won't work though.

We are complete old fogies in his mind...nothing we suggest is cool.

Then it would absolutely kill him if he thought you guys thought some of his unwanted behavior was cool.

I'm just going to put this out there okay. I'm not saying any one members advice within this thread is wrong. HOWEVER....I will say, that giving into anything that your child wants while he's displaying terrible behavior is so very wrong. You just don't do that. Life will never give in to your little guy, so why should you? Think about that and discuss it with your husband.

Look, life doesn't negotiate. We may negotiate with one another...but not with life as a whole. Sometimes our lives don't go the way we want them to. It will never happen for him, you or any of us. You don't reward bad behavior with games, fun, or anything like that. Neither will society (unless you have some crazy bloodline, which most us don't have and I'm speaking royalty).

Simply put...IMVHO, if he acts out violently or otherwise, then you need to show him via forceful action (I'm not saying beat him or hit him...that's not necessary) that this is a completely unacceptable behavior.

As parents, again IMVHO, you don't negotiate with children. Especially not your own flesh and blood. Now, if you're trying to raise the next extremist, terrorist or politician (I couldn't help myself with the politician part) then negotiate with him whenever he gets out of line. BUT...if you expect your son to be a leader an entrepreneur or a normal member of society, then you had better put every restriction on him that possible right now.

Just my opinion and experience after raising 3 daughters and currently raising a 15 year old son. I wasn't the nicest parent to my daughters...I wasn't always their friend...I WAS ALWAYS there for them and told them right from wrong.

Listen...there's no playbook for parenting. Oh...sure there's "books" on parenting, hell, any one of us could write one...but none of us become parents and are gifted with some "ANCIENT BIBLE" on parenting because it doesn't exist. Teach your child according to your morals, be truthful and frank, don't hide reality from your child, instill your perceived standards and don't forget about the rest of society that they have to deal with the rest of their lives...even when you are dead and gone.

The truth hurts but it works

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

I would separate him from his friends. Military school.

If that is not an option....

YOU need to assert yourself. It sounds like he needs tough love. Lose your isht. Show him you are human too and that when push comes to shove that you and your husband are in charge. He may see your smothering and love as a sign of weakness.

I would stop cooking for him, cleaning for him, giving him money. I would cut him off completely and when he comes to you, which he will, you establish ground rules to win back those privileges.

I am not suggesting you beat him, that is not tough love but psychotic parenting. BUT a good slap on time did wonders for me. I dont think you would know how to apply that so just dont. Raising your voice /screaming so as to express the emotions you are feeling may help like a pinch of salt. You dont want to show him that he can make you lose your cool, though he should fear that response from you.

Honestly, watch Dog whisperer shows. I am not even kidding. Kids at that age are mostly hormones and social positioning. You establish who the alpha is and force him to come to you for his needs.

Love him by not sparing him. You have to do what is difficult which is to stop enabling him. Snip that crap right away. Dont let it escalate. Be "Simple matter of fact"..youre F-ed my friend. I am not helping you with a thing.

And if he gets really snippy, chores are a start but I would encourage him to earn his food. Sounds harsh I know but show him that he has the "right" to not be stupid and piss off his primary support providers.

EDIT:
Oh, and find out who the leader of the pack is and show your son how dumb and weak he is. I am not suggesting you do something to him, but a little test of wits in front of your son will show him that Mr cool guy is actually a smuck little kid.

If all else fails...military school. Show him the brochures and tell him he has X amount of time to change his chip or you WILL give up. Be prepared to follow through. Nothing you say should go without real consequences. NEVER say something and NOT follow through. Its worse from that point on.

take him out of it for at least 21 days.
somewhere outside of his normal zone, a holiday etc.

after about 21 days he will no longer have the poor behaviour habit.

getting him out of that group for a while my just flip the reset switch

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

WTF is this? You raised a little brat, he got as big as you, and now you can't control him. Ever heard, "You reap what you sow?" Now you want to come here begging advice?

Get a baseball bat and hit him from behind ... hard. Tie him up. When he comes to, take a braided belt to him. Use it without mercy. You'll know exactly when to stop.

-or-

Drop him off at the YMCA. Tell him you'll be back no earlier than a month from that moment you've dropped him off. See if he's waiting patiently for a ride back home exactly a month after you've done this deed. Hint: don't go lookin' for him. If he's not there, he's already all grown up and your job as a parent is over. [/sarc/psych!!]

Real advice: You don't want this member of your family meeting someone like me IRL unprepared. I only consider the mental harm done after solving the immediate issues you fail to teach your "child" while you had 'em. I'm ready to fire three people (grow frikkin' men, no less) over 'Spring Fever' and there are two more lined up in my crosshairs ATM.

What you fail to teach to your 11YO tomorrow will ripple through a significant portion of that part of their life that matters most. Sorry ... Can't give you advice specific to your son as I don't know him. You know what to do, or you'll figure it out, I'm sure. Having raised two kids, I know there is no such thing as perfect parenting. I wish you the best of luck.

And for you: Find a way to keep laughing. It's the only way to enjoy the 'E Ticket' ride you bought.

-Cheers

He is a product of your home and all the answers you need will be found there not here.

You can find peer understanding here but the solutions are in your home.

He is 11, his peers are becoming important to him in new ways now,like we are to you right here.He is developing persona which allows him to fit into his peer group.He is learning. to express himself within that group by grabbing a role he is FAMILIAR with not one that is new to him,this means he is emulating a powerfull home influence in his choice of position and role within his group.He is not rebelling and becoming some monster,he is actually trying to transfer what he sees as a powerfull influence onto himself so he is confident and comfortable in his peer group.

Bossy Mom ,bossy Daughter in peer Group,funny Dad funy boy in Peer group,this is because they are looking for strength in a new and evolving social/peer structure,take it as a compliment,he is emulating one or both of is parents.

He is an older brother,the roughousing is also normal,annoying and in need of policing,but normal.It is called Sibling Terrorism and can policed.Methods have already been established in your home.


"My husband and I have given him a very stable home life, we have provided love and support, nurturing and devotion beyond any expectation I could ever imagine " this is great,but consider that it is your opinion of your own performance,he is 11 and his opinion cannot be as educated or mature as your is,he may very well feel loved but not quite so enthusiastic about the salesjob of perfection.

Limiting his exposure to media and internet is akin to becoming Olde School Amish in todays world,I am not making a judgement,just pointing out that your decision will carry dynamic consequences and to expect your 11 year old son to step above and beyond the understanding and abilitys of his peers and seamlessly accept and endorse your what are to the Status Qou - restrictions-- may not seem quite so supportive and nurturing or devoted to him.Remember YOUR peer group of parents creates and endorses the status Quo all of the Kids follow,if all of your peers give phone and internet access and movies or TV to their kids and set the Status Quo this way then you must accept this dynamic reality and not dump your refusal to accept it 100% upon your sons shoulders.

Becoming Physically rambunctious is normal for his age,and in school his friends are starting to get rougher with him and it is trickeling down to his homelife and is sibling is becomeing a sparring partner an unwilling one at that,this unfortunately is also normal.Now how you and your partner accept or quantify "violent" is again your own personal valuation and I am not judging,but at the same time the Status Quo again trumps you as parents and his ability to overcome it a an 11 year old perfectly normal kid.Maybe in your home you do not accept roughhousing,maybe a punch to the arm isnt acceptable under any circumstances,and enforcing that in your home is your right,however you must refer to the almighty Status QQuo again and temper your perspective,because a shot to the arm of your little brother is as normal as Apple Pie.Maybe not acceptable in your home,but normal nonetheless to the status Quo.You see you need to remember that it is the Status Quo your son is projecting that you feel the urge to clash with,NOT HIM,he is as much a victim of the rolling tide as you guys are.

Not to add fuel to the fire but today kids are hitting puberty sooner and it is very noticable , I have a 12 year old Nephew with facial hair already coming in stronger than peach fuzz,and a 13 year old Niece who looks 3-4 years older than she should according to my old status qou,the two boys I raised are in their 20s and I can only base my limited perspectives on the status Quo their Mom and I had to find ways to negotiate with .But early puberty can surely give boys a serious shot of testosterone they do not know what to do with.For a newbie testosterone is a Superman Drug,it is a new and very hard thing to understand and control and it takes some time,maybe it is time for Dad to start to initiate gentle wresteling with the older boy and add some zip to it when he gets randy,just not to much zip,simply do not let him win like a little boy anymore,when you wrestle give him 1/4 effort just enough to dominate him at least 75% of the time, like he is trying to do to his friends and siblings as per the dreaded Status Quo.Just a suggestion that worked for me,make sure you do not involve both boys when Dad does this because it is school for the boy who needs to learn to control the Man Juice Testosterone.The little fellow will need to wait his turn it is coming fast dont worry. If you involve both boys there is no lesson it is full on play and remember you are trying to disguise a lesson in your wresteling play with the older boy,not have a love-in,it is or was to my Family an important lesson to teach just the older boy because we had a terrified 10 year old and a 12 year old on par with your son who is 11 now.


Dont worry your son sounds completely normal to me,and so do his Parents.Stay the Course,One Sail-Strong Wind.

a reply to: calstorm

I'm just kind of making fun here...but where are you buying games for 20 bucks? I need that hookup...lol!

Seriously though, I guess I can see the sense in your advice...I just never tried it with my children. I had 2 very hardheaded and stubborn girls that bucked me at every turn I never thought I would make it out of the fight. I just chose to fight back.

We all know our children better than they know themselves and we act accordingly...most of the time.

Keep up the fight

a reply to: ThePublicEnemyNo1

LOL, PC games mostly. I haven't purchased a console since the PS2. It is true, every child is different. What works with one, doesn't always work with the next. Their are things I am horribly strict on, but other things I am super lax that other parents aren't such as video game time. (I also don't own a t.v. so I kind of make up for it there) My rule of thumb is life or limb. If it is going to put those in danger then hell no. They are also rules I am ok with loosening the reigns on, but it does help.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric
He is a pre-adolescent. Expect more of the same for another eight or nine years, at least.

Stop looking on your children as if you own them. You've done well enough — by your own account — as a parent. You cannot change nature. Your son will most probably settle down as he moves towards adulthood. If he doesn't, tough luck. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

The real problem is the attitude you and your family are taking towards this — that's why you say 'it's affecting our family'. Don't let it. Punish your son if he is unkind or overbearing with other family members.

And never, never come to this web site for advice about anything important. This place is unusually full of bigots, hatemongers, paranoid schizophrenics, space cadets, hysterics, delusives, fanatics and people that believe the only solution to any social problem is violence. Asking for child-rearing advice here is like asking for marital advice from a Catholic priest.

I can't help you and I am a counselor. You see, I have only your side of the story.

I need your other half's and I would need to talk to both of your sons.

I will tell you this, you need to listen, you need to ask the 11 year old for his advice and you need to ask his brother.

The truth and the solution are somewhere in the middle of all of these answers.

I assume from what you have written that you are the Mum. Dad's version would be telling as would your son's.

In a nutshell, find a good psychologist and select based on a recommendation from other parents.

P

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric


Kangaruex4Ewe posted this and totally agreed:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Children naturally start pulling away from parents at around this age. They have to, else they would never leave home. Some kids rebel regardless of how they were raised. It just happens. But maybe he is rebelling because he feels he has no control over anything in his life right now. He feels the need to control something, and his attitude may be what he is showing you he has the last say in

It reminded me of my friend who's grandson was so structured he was taking swimming, tai quon do, and limited game or computer time. His time always managed by her and he started to rebel possibly a year older than your son.

But there is a time when you have to have discussions on the merits of youtube video or game, but not totally ban it, because they are choosing something their friends already do, and yet its ok to discuss and even come up with alternative activities. But he still requires some choices, and free time not just structured.

Also one other thing came to me is his age. He is in preteen years. How fast is he maturing physically, has he gone through any height changes yet.

There is a natural testosterone increase that occurs, preteen in some, early teen in others, and lasts for a few good years, ex. say 12-16 in some, that can be very hard on family, and even hard on him if one doesnt draw him aside and say, you're going to stick it out and understand why some of this is being said. Allow communication to spill forth from him, and with a boy, they're not hardwired to talk as much as a girl, if at all. So you sort of say, I feel messages, rather "you did this" messages, and then ask for his ideas for problem solving, not that you're completely concurring with them you're taking it into context, and also ask for his ideas of what would seem right for when boundaries are broken.


Giving him more choices and even to help solve some of the problems, so he can learn different outcomes trial and error and learn. Picking and choosing and of course this is not about very damaging things, but some things many parents wouldn't feel comfortable with.
Also finding out what he's interested in. Some people put junior in sports when he's an artist for example. Or maybe needs a break from doing and wants to grow his communication and networking skills a little. Its finding out what makes him tick and makes him happy. And developing in him some skills to solve problems.

Try to choose humor.

So, my 13 year old gets upset, angry, occasionally swears at us, and he has hormones firing off, headaches are quite common with this, and he gets them, needs more sleep, misses school from headaches and stomach aches and bad health. And teenagers need as much sleep as toddlers do. They are undergoing massive changes, and hormone surges.

Alot of understanding for the need to pull away from parental control should be discussed, while a the same time expressing a bit of team work.

When someone steps over what he thinks is his rights, as a concerned parent, one can say, ouch, you hurt my feelings, when you know I just am looking out for you because I love you and thats what moms do, but understand you wanted to do this your way at this point. In a kind of humorous understanding way.

And also tell him about the hormones, and tell you're there for him no matter what.

Open channels of communication and have alot of humor at some of it.

a reply to: pheonix358

Physiologist? I'm confused...did you mean psychologist? I don't think a physiologist can help them as a physiologist is the scientific study of function in living systems, not psychology nor psychiatry.

I don't get the connection, unless there may be some hormonal issues. Which in that case wouldn't one seek an endocrinologist?

ETA
I do agree however, there only being one side of the story told as there is always more than one side to every story. Physiologist however....just no. No emotional nor communal resolution with that...a physiologist only physical. The human brain and its functions are quite expansive when it comes to hormones and the endocrine system.

a reply to: ThePublicEnemyNo1

Thanks, I went back in time and fixed it. Bad eyes is my excuse, not that I need one, I am human, sometimes I err.

Thanks.

P

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric
Maybe you are to controlling?
Sorry for a short answer.

i feel for you and your family *hug* i too had one of those kids,.. i did everything i could do to show him the right choices, and he does know the difference between right and wrong, he just chooses wrong every time. fast forward now... mine is now 25. a grown man with 2 children of his own (not that he's mature enough to be a father), he's just ripped me off for a load of money, slagged all the people off that ever helped him, used his children as weapons etc.... yet in his more lucid moments he'll tell you he had the best upbringing possible, that i did everything i could to guide his future wisely, and that he DOES know the difference between right and wrong....sadly he still chooses wrong, and now, 25 years later and a whole world of heart pain, i've had to say 'that's it, i literally can not handle what you're dishing out any more, go away and don't come back, not ever' ... i loved him as much as any parent loves a child, and despite everything that i tried (and believe me i DID try everything), he's still turned out a horrible, nasty, spiteful, selfish little moron.

sometimes, as much as you do the right thing and love them the whole planet, it's in their destiny to do what they do and despite all the love and care you put into them, nothing will change that. it's a very hard lesson to learn, especially from somebody you've nurtured and been there for, but there simply is no answer for somebody that seems hell bent on destroying the good things they have in their lives.

wish i had an answer for you like all these amazing parents have, but sometimes there just isn't an answer to be had. everybody that knows my son, even his contemporaries that he grew up with, acknowledges that he's become a horrible person. i'm disgusted and ashamed that he's turned out like this, his older brother is the complete opposite and the reason people no longer tell me "it's the parents fault"... yawn.. sometimes it's just who he's destined to be. a very hard thing for a loving parent to accept believe me.

i wish you all the best, and remember being exactly where you are once, and hope your son see's the light and makes you proud...