Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'The doors of the Catholic Church are open to everyone'

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originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: mahatche
I haven't read the entire thread to see if anyone pointed it out, but they said the same under Benedict. It's not a new idea.

If there is aliens secretly visiting earth, I'm sure the church would have some idea. Of course they want to normalize the idea of converting the aliens as well. The idea that aliens accept your religion, may be the only thing that prevents them from questioning their faith when ET shows up.

IF THEY ASK...geesh, the pope wasn't advocating forcing conversion onto them.

Where did I say anything about force in my post? Don't project what other people say on to me. I said it makes sense that they would try to normalize the idea.

a reply to: iamhobo

As far as I'm concerned he can baptize anyone he wants to, as baptism is supposed to be a way of saving the soul, but he had better not expect us to give them welfare, food stamps, free health care, free maternity, free college, etc.

Wait a minute, do aliens have souls?

a reply to: SaturnFX

Yikes! Please don't give them any ideas......

He (the pope) said Catholicism was a church of “open doors”, and that it was up to Christians to accept the Holy Spirit however “unthinkable” and “unimaginable” it appeared.

Maybe I'm being a Nervous Nelly, but isn't this the kind of thinking that leads to stuff like Jonestown and Heaven's Gate?
My mind has been opened sufficiently. I can think for myself, Mr. Pope. I don't need to accept and embrace anything and everything, no matter how "unimaginable it may appear."

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: 2012newstart

IF you want me to read your text,

THEN you will kindly paragraph it into short paragraphs about 5-7 lines long or less. Walls of text are almost painful to aging eyes. Besides, most folks just scroll past them.

>>> I don't have time for that, that means hours editing before posting, nobody pays me for that, and I really don't write walls of words for those who will scroll them down. The people of short phrases are satisfied by other kind of posters that obviously I am not. If you don't want to read my walls of text, please don't.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: 2012newstart

www.dts.edu...



These fragments now increase our holdings as follows: we have as many as eighteen New Testament manuscripts from the second century and one from the first. Altogether, more than 43% of all New Testament verses are found in these manuscripts. But the most interesting thing is the first-century fragment.

It was dated by one of the world’s leading paleographers. He said he was ‘certain’ that it was from the first century. If this is true, it would be the oldest fragment of the New Testament known to exist. Up until now, no one has discovered any first-century manuscripts of the New Testament. The oldest manuscript of the New Testament has been P52, a small fragment from John’s Gospel, dated to the first half of the second century. It was discovered in 1934.

Not only this, but the first-century fragment is from Mark’s Gospel. Before the discovery of this fragment, the oldest manuscript that had Mark in it was P45, from the early third century (c. AD 200–250). This new fragment would predate that by 100 to 150 years.

Interesting! Perhaps there is a photocopy uploaded somewhere. What essentially that source says, is they advanced to late 1st century but only with one piece of gospel of Mark. All the rest is still from the second century although older than before, and all of that makes up no more than 43% of the NT.

How about if they find tomorrow 1st century originals, but those original texts says OTHERWISE? It would suffice several important episodes of the life of Jesus to be simply missing from the later editions.

Sorry I don't have the time and resource to browse all other links you kindly provided me with. Let the Vatican librarians do their work on that. I said what is my perspective on that, and I think it deserves consideration because it DIFFERS from the mainstream perspective. I give perspective of an outside observer, to say the least. I hope someone in the Vatican reads what we write here. Perhaps I am wrong in my conclusions, fully or partially, I gave more than one conclusion and never claimed anything for decisive. But let they investigate those arguments further because they matter. What is the role of the Angels in both the earthly life of Jesus and the early church. And I am not going to repeat the walls of texts, they are already posted in more than one thread. Thank you for your patience!

originally posted by: BO XIAN
Some folks seem determined to trash St Paul . . .

and to conflate fallen and non-fallen angels as one group.

Those are not my realities. I have no need to attempt dialogue with that nonsensical sort of perspective.

I value what St Paul did for Christianity. Without his Greco-Roman approach on the message of Jesus, the cult would remain Judaic and not worldwide religion. At the same time, isn't it strange the amount of preserved letters of Paul that are comparable to the entire Gospels (forgot exactly the numbers of the pages, and I calculated it once in the forum!) One cannot but ask why Peter the first pope wasn't preserved as well as Paul who was not even a bishop? In that view, and view of all I already posted, it is close to mind to question not 100% Paul, but 10% Paul or less. To question some key paragraphs that installed the Roman power right into the NT texts. It is valid for all NT texts of course. It is strange the disciples of disciples cared so little of the books of the Lord, while there are preserved much older documents in the pagan world. It just doesn't fit unless you accept a wider view that explains from a broader perspective. Including the perspective of the enemies of Christianity, to understand what really happened in the first centuries.

About the fallen and non-fallen angels. Come on, start discerning the good and evil ET. That is what I'm talking about all the way long! There are evil ones and they left their footprint everywhere, in pagan and Christian world as well. There are good ones who served Jesus and who are barely mentioned in the preserved texts, as by mistake. Perhaps there are undecided ET too who are yet to be evangelized and receive God's grace and take decision for Jesus or against. As we the earthly humans BTW during all our history despite the fact of existence of Christendom. Let me not repeat things already said.

With that, I end my elaboration on ancient texts and concentrate on the ET here and now. Will the pope's bold initiative be followed by a wave of homilies of cardinals and bishops? Will it be followed by a real Disclosure in society? Or will it be forgotten as Medvedev's words were? Will humanity embrace the larger truth and help itself in the process to avoid what seems to be imminent? The biggest countries suffer from unspeakable economic crisis, except for China. The world is more antagonized against each other than the time of the Cuban crisis or equal to it. What more to wait for? A holy death under the nukes and nobody to continue what Jesus started on Earth? Some will call it mass martyrdom followed by Armageddon. No, thanks! It is too simplistic to narrow Jesus' mission, a mission that encompasses the entire galaxies. Perhaps the evil ones so much discussed, want exactly that.

Well why not,how advance would these beings be if they travel half a galaxy away to be swayed by our hocus pocus,reminds me of the V series, the new one where an alien insert himself in the highest circles of the Vatican,at first to undermine the belief system but found himself drawn into it, however if we trekked to another planet and imposed our will through religions on the natives then we are just repeating what we did to each other here at home...no change..booo.

Gee, some ATSers clearly have no grasp of humor whatsoever.

If the pope is capable of self-ridicule and you can't even get this, I guess that makes him smarter than the majority here.


Does conspiracy theories turn people into boring and humorless individuals? I guess so.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts
Gee, some ATSers clearly have no grasp of humor whatsoever.

If the pope is capable of self-ridicule and you can't even get this, I guess that makes him smarter than the majority here.


Does conspiracy theories turn people into boring and humorless individuals? I guess so.

Well Papa might be kidding around but others at the Vatican were kicking around the idea for at least a couple o yrs back.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts
Gee, some ATSers clearly have no grasp of humor whatsoever.

If the pope is capable of self-ridicule and you can't even get this, I guess that makes him smarter than the majority here.


Does conspiracy theories turn people into boring and humorless individuals? I guess so.

Well Papa might be kidding around but others at the Vatican were kicking around the idea for at least a couple o yrs back.

Lol if you seriously believe Catholic priests want to convert aliens. I seriously don't know what to say to this.

They don't even care anymore about converting humans and rather have people join willingly. I don't even know where to begin, it's the usual anti-Catholic crap you find all over the net.


Maybe you mistake Catholics for Baptists or Evangelists? Those are the proselytizing ones today, very active in the third world.

originally posted by: iamhobo

Pope Francis has said that he would be willing to baptise aliens if they came to the Vatican, asking “who are we to close doors” to anyone - even Martians.

Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'The doors of the Catholic Church are open to everyone'

Yes, you read correctly -- Pope Francis wouldn't mind baptizing aliens. It blows me away how different the Catholic Church is today than 10-20 years ago. You'd never hear of the Vatican coming out and saying the stuff it does today, back then.

In a homily yesterday dedicated to the concepts of acceptance and inclusion, Francis recalled a Bible story about the conversion of the first pagans to Christianity, according to reports on Vatican Radio. He said Catholicism was a church of “open doors”, and that it was up to Christians to accept the Holy Spirit however “unthinkable” and “unimaginable” it appeared.

Describing how, according to the Bible, Peter was criticised by the Christians of Jerusalem for making contact with a community of “unclean” pagans, Francis said that at the time that too was “unthinkable”. “If, for example, tomorrow an expedition of Martians came to us here and one said ‘I want to be baptised!’, what would happen?”

Clarifying that he really was talking about aliens, the Pope said: “Martians, right? Green, with long noses and big ears, like in children’s drawings.”

What do you think ATS? --
Is this kind of talk from the Pope conditioning people around the world to accept extraterrestrials?

Or could it simply be a tactic to gain followers who are more open-minded?

Does the Vactican perhaps know something that we do not? Are we about to bare witness to some mind blowing revelation?

...............That will be endorsed by the church? Which makes everything OK? Yeah Right.

originally posted by: VelvetSplash
Of course he would, Martian cash is as good as any other.

It's entirely more likely that a species capable of travelling here would laugh in his face at his primative fairy tales.

How do you know that the first visitation wouldn't be a branch of a religious group looking to convert Earth?

originally posted by: GlassHammer
Does the Vactican perhaps know something that we do not? Are we about to bare witness to some mind blowing revelation?

something = many more things. Pope's words are the first flash for everyone who can understand. Said perhaps just on time.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts
Gee, some ATSers clearly have no grasp of humor whatsoever.

If the pope is capable of self-ridicule and you can't even get this, I guess that makes him smarter than the majority here.


Does conspiracy theories turn people into boring and humorless individuals? I guess so.

Well Papa might be kidding around but others at the Vatican were kicking around the idea for at least a couple o yrs back.

Lol if you seriously believe Catholic priests want to convert aliens. I seriously don't know what to say to this.

They don't even care anymore about converting humans and rather have people join willingly. I don't even know where to begin, it's the usual anti-Catholic crap you find all over the net.


Maybe you mistake Catholics for Baptists or Evangelists? Those are the proselytizing ones today, very active in the third world.

The Guardian, Friday 17 September 2010 15.45 BST
Guy Consolmagno, one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be 'delighted' if intelligent life was found among the stars. Photograph: David Sillitoe/Guardian

Pope's astronomer says he would baptise an alien if it asked him
An alien – 'no matter how many tentacles it has' – could have a soul, says pope's astronomer

Aliens might have souls and could choose to be baptised if humans ever met them, a Vatican scientist said today. The official also dismissed intelligent design as "bad theology" that had been "hijacked" by American creationist fundamentalists
www.theguardian.com...

Like I said this idea have been kick around in Vatican for at-least a couple of yrs now.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts
Gee, some ATSers clearly have no grasp of humor whatsoever.

If the pope is capable of self-ridicule and you can't even get this, I guess that makes him smarter than the majority here.


Does conspiracy theories turn people into boring and humorless individuals? I guess so.

Well Papa might be kidding around but others at the Vatican were kicking around the idea for at least a couple o yrs back.

Lol if you seriously believe Catholic priests want to convert aliens. I seriously don't know what to say to this.

They don't even care anymore about converting humans and rather have people join willingly. I don't even know where to begin, it's the usual anti-Catholic crap you find all over the net.


Maybe you mistake Catholics for Baptists or Evangelists? Those are the proselytizing ones today, very active in the third world.

The Guardian, Friday 17 September 2010 15.45 BST
Guy Consolmagno, one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be 'delighted' if intelligent life was found among the stars. Photograph: David Sillitoe/Guardian

Pope's astronomer says he would baptise an alien if it asked him
An alien – 'no matter how many tentacles it has' – could have a soul, says pope's astronomer

Aliens might have souls and could choose to be baptised if humans ever met them, a Vatican scientist said today. The official also dismissed intelligent design as "bad theology" that had been "hijacked" by American creationist fundamentalists
www.theguardian.com...

Like I said this idea have been kick around in Vatican for at-least a couple of yrs now.

Can't you read? All he says is that alien could ask to be baptized. There is no mention of converting them WTF?


Of course Catholic astronomers search for alien life, they are not bigoted to the point to reject modern science. As you can see even them denounce how Christian fundamentalists in the US hijacked the debate.



This is what you posted

however if we trekked to another planet and imposed our will through religions on the natives

the Catholic Church does not do this anymore. And actually, if you studied history, you'd see they never really did, allowing natives to blend their own religion with Catholic faith, hence why you have all the things like the Santeria and other mixed traditions.

Seriously your knowledge is caricatural.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts
Gee, some ATSers clearly have no grasp of humor whatsoever.

If the pope is capable of self-ridicule and you can't even get this, I guess that makes him smarter than the majority here.


Does conspiracy theories turn people into boring and humorless individuals? I guess so.

Well Papa might be kidding around but others at the Vatican were kicking around the idea for at least a couple o yrs back.

Lol if you seriously believe Catholic priests want to convert aliens. I seriously don't know what to say to this.

They don't even care anymore about converting humans and rather have people join willingly. I don't even know where to begin, it's the usual anti-Catholic crap you find all over the net.


Maybe you mistake Catholics for Baptists or Evangelists? Those are the proselytizing ones today, very active in the third world.

The Guardian, Friday 17 September 2010 15.45 BST
Guy Consolmagno, one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be 'delighted' if intelligent life was found among the stars. Photograph: David Sillitoe/Guardian

Pope's astronomer says he would baptise an alien if it asked him
An alien – 'no matter how many tentacles it has' – could have a soul, says pope's astronomer

Aliens might have souls and could choose to be baptised if humans ever met them, a Vatican scientist said today. The official also dismissed intelligent design as "bad theology" that had been "hijacked" by American creationist fundamentalists
www.theguardian.com...

Like I said this idea have been kick around in Vatican for at-least a couple of yrs now.

Can't you read? All he says is that alien could ask to be baptized. There is no mention of converting them WTF?


Of course Catholic astronomers search for alien life, they are not bigoted to the point to reject modern science. As you can see even them denounce how Christian fundamentalists in the US hijacked the debate.



This is what you posted

however if we trekked to another planet and imposed our will through religions on the natives

the Catholic Church does not do this anymore. And actually, if you studied history, you'd see they never really did, allowing natives to blend their own religion with Catholic faith, hence why you have all the things like the Santeria and other mixed traditions.

Seriously your knowledge is caricatural.

Ok take a deep breath, first what does conversion mean??..convert
vb (mainly tr)
1. to change or adapt the form, character, or function of; transform
2. to cause (someone) to change in opinion, belief, etc
3. to change (a person or his way of life, etc) for the better
4. (intr) to admit of being changed (into): the table converts into a tray.
As oppose to pros·e·ly·tize verb \ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz\
: to try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group
Slightly different things the Vatican discussed "Conversation" no one said they would force E.T to convert but E.T would still have to go through the Baptismal process done by a priest.

My take on us travelling to alien planet was not about Catholicism in of itself but religions in general and given our past and present that remains a distinct possibility.

As far as history goes.. really?? you gonna sit there and tell folks that Catholics did not forced the cross on people come man you don't really believe that,and yes I am aware of the mixed traditions of the religions you mentioned above but that in no way distract from the fact that back in the bad old days both proselytizing and converting were pretty much common.