NASA/GRL/Science - Collapse Of West Antarctic Ice Sheet Appears To Be Under Way, Likely Unstoppable

a reply to: raymundoko

No, I don't believe melting ice caps alone are the end of humanity. Climate change is only one factor which can lead to extremes of weather as more moisture is available to be pulled into the atmosphere - which means more mega snow storms in winter, bigger hurricanes, flooding in some areas and drought in others as the weather/water patterns change...

You see, I believe that we are, through several means, destroying our environment to where we will see:
1) more and more "genetic and epigenetic" problems with our children (congenital defects, higher rates of autism, more cancers),

2) increases in new diseases we don't know how to fight for various reasons, including antibiotic overuse in humans and factory farming, as well as the change in climate which may awaken ancient "bugs" we've not had to deal with OR the changing climate may mutate known bugs in strange ways,

3) increasing affects of poisons and toxins dumped into the environment along with all our trash, heavy metals from industry, chemicals, etc. in a giant soup,

4) changes in ocean salinity/chemical make up = destruction of coral reefs = destruction of an interconnected ecosystem that can kill off bunches of species - one example of species die-off and decline, (we are, after all, also biological beings - we have the potential to have species die-off just like all the other species on the planet)

5) the affects of permanent plant and animal species loss - some of which could be life-saving medicines, due to deforestation by man, especially in South America. This has more than one danger as it is a vast pharmacy of natural plants with potential medical uses in delicate ecosystems and we bulldoze them over mindlessly for the timber, for farming, etc.

6) human suffering due to short-sighted use of resources including water, air and fuel,

7) more unbreathable air in certain cities/countries (China) - acid rain - etc.

8) the human consequences of mega-farming of animals and plants with chemicals and lowering of nutritional value, not to mention the chemical wastes in our water

9) the continued negative impacts of excess sugars in our foods causing higher and higher (and younger and younger) cases of diabetes and obesity,

10) the human impacts of general stupidity in competition by massive corporate interests that lead to destruction of the environment,

11) more and more Fukishima and other nuclear waste issues that won't go away for generations while we make more of the radioactive stuff - who needs to drop a bomb when we can Three-Mile Island, Chernoble and Fukashima ourselves into oblivion?

12) greater potential for terrorist organizations to get ahold of nuclear weapons, etc. etc. etc.

13) more oil spills and man-made disasters...

That's just a list off the top of my head.

We seem to have a collective death wish - like smokers who know its bad but are in denial of the ultimate health costs...We will have to pay for this someday. Then again, we are also nearer and nearer to being able to create our own environments - we may be able to take our species to other planets, the moon, or have "bubble cities" on earth where environmental rehabilitation can take place... I dunno - science and technology are awesome forces when used towards human progress in a non-destructive way. There is still hope for us...

peace,
AB

It actually lowers. Ice expands when frozen. Sea ice that melts actaully reduces sea levels. Land ice that melts raises sea levels. If all ice melted the sea levels would increase about 200 feet.

n.a reply to: Euphem

I disagree with you based on the past. s far as we can tell the Jurrasic period had no ice whatsoever and seems to be the most biologically diverse period of our history. Due to the abundance of flora and fauna it does not seem there were ANY extremes in weather. You drank the kool-aid :-(

a reply to: AboveBoard

P.S. I'm ACTUALLY a climate scientist and hold a masters in atmospheric physics and dynamics. I got lucky though and finished my degrees prior to AGW infiltrating the class rooms.

Edit: nothing else you posted has anything to do with global warming and more to do with human nature to find the easiest path of resistance no matter the collateral damage. I agree man is ruining his health and habitat, but trying to claim we'll have more severe weather patterns if the ice caps melt is beyond ignorant.

paleobiology.si.edu...

a reply to: Euphem

You're not serious are you...

www.realclearscience.com...

Overpopulation is only an issue if you are a fan of the GA Guide Stones...

last year we had on ATS maps of US flood maps!
Them! knew it was coming.
and I bet they Dont wont to stop it.

US seems to wont to make money from it.
making others pay for it.
like the carbon tax.

That did Not stop ANY carbon.
they just pay'd countries with low tax to take their carbon.
so they just made money and No lowering of carbon.
its all a con job to make money.

a reply to: raymundoko

Yeah i dont buy that either, we could live in so many ways that would be insane amount of more efficient to whole community, humans, animals, nature etc. But insteed we have to live and go this crazy path that is clearly leading to our own destruction in many fields. For me its looks like greed is thriving this world. We could easily lose most of this crap tech and build really needed tech to last. Right now we live in big not so funny joke, everything is up sde down, laws protect criminals, religion destroys spiritual, economic is destroying wealth and so on, its looks simply greed but there are those who speak about depopulation plans going on and all this crazyness could be just a plan working on it.

a reply to: pavil

IIRC . . . recent [years] research has determined that there are approximately

15,000+ UNDERSEA VOLCANOES and hot vents ERUPTING to varying degrees. Many seem to have recently been lit off.

Seems to me, that if true, THAT would explain A LOT of the warmer seas.

a reply to: buddha

Welllllll, there is Aaron Russo [Director of Changing Places or Faces--whatever the movie is] . . . his testimony about what his Rockefeller buddy said about the farce of global warming as a globalist tool . . .

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: raymundoko
I disagree with you based on the past. s far as we can tell the Jurrasic period had no ice whatsoever and seems to be the most biologically diverse period of our history. Due to the abundance of flora and fauna it does not seem there were ANY extremes in weather. You drank the kool-aid :-(

a reply to: AboveBoard

P.S. I'm ACTUALLY a climate scientist and hold a masters in atmospheric physics and dynamics. I got lucky though and finished my degrees prior to AGW infiltrating the class rooms.

Okay then... Did you read my long list of simultaneous issues? Do you deny the species die-off - it doesn't have to be all about "climate" but it IS about human activity/stupidity affecting the environment in ways that are unhealthy for a large number of living things, including humans.

As far as life-diversity in the Jurrasic period with no ice - I did NOT say that melting ice caps are going to kill us all. Yes - earth's climate has changed many times, no argument there! Jurrassic "The Age of Reptiles" was all about dinosaurs, giant squids and alligators, and the only mammals were rodents... It was a sub-tropical environment that encouraged thick rain forests. True. It was 3 degrees warmer globally than it is now (16.5 C or 61.7 F). Land masses were largely connected - or certainly more so than now. What is alive now that would not survive in that environment? Well, humans are able to survive in sub-tropical environments. We would all want to move either north or south during the year, but there would be a general watery, steamy environment year round. Lots of insects.

As to pulling the "kool-aid" card - seriously? Ignore all the factors you want to, it won't change their reality. I did make a rather long list...and I will reiterate, it isn't ALL about the climate, but a combination of factors thrown together in a smorgasbord of destructive tendencies.

Here is a "Global Warming Historical Timeline" for anyone who is interested in the history of this...
LINK This is from the AIP, American Institute of Physics: LINK

- AB

a reply to: AboveBoard

Your other points have nothing to do with global warming and are an obfuscation. Those are issues that need to be addressed with human nature. I agree those are happening and man is poisoning his habitat. However he is more than likely not affecting the weather in any long term detrimental capacity.

See my edit above. For a link to Jurassic weather.

So I can prove the Jurrasic had no severe weather...but now it's steamy and unlivable????

originally posted by: boymonkey74

originally posted by: the owlbear
a reply to: Danbones

Cthulhu is awakening. Remember "the Bloop" and the other unexplained noises that were near Antarctica and thought to be animal in Nature?

Gulp :O

I better get my Narwhal out.

Back to the OP scary stuff indeed, I agree and think we have done far to little far to late.

Done too little?..What exactly were/are we to do..to some degree its natural..happened before we were here and will happen again with or without us.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

The rise may continue to be relatively slow for at least the next century or so, the scientists said, but sometime after that it will probably speed up so sharply as to become a crisis.

Somebody help me out here ...

A pretty conservative estimate on my part, but I'd say it's fairly likely 7 billion people are going to die before that happens. Why should I be worried? I'll be lucky to make it ten more years.

Thats kind of the problem in society today in general.."why should i be worried"..just sayin
Maybee you might be concerned for your children and in turn their children and so on..even if you dont have children im sure you know people/family that do.

a reply to: pianopraze

And the West Antarctic Ice sheet is melting due to the volcano, exactly as predicted.

No. The ice is collapsing because warm sea water is affecting its "doorstop", allowing the glaciers to rapidly move to the ocean.




The volcano you are referring to is not in the area where ice is being lost, it is hundreds of miles away. There is no indication that the volcano you are referring to is erupting. There was no prediction that it would.
cdn4.sci-news.com...
www.sci-news.com...

originally posted by: pianopraze
Interestingly enough, it's melting right where the volcano is forming and they predicted it would in 2011:

We don't know how many volcanoes are under the polar ice caps or how long the active ones have been erupting. These volcanoes are deep in the ice, so deep they are only now being discovered.

Buried under thick ice and frigid water, volcanic explosions are shaking the Arctic Ocean floor at depths previously thought impossible, according to a new study.

Arctic Volcanoes Found Active at Unprecedented Depths

A volcano has been detected more than a half-mile below the ice sheet in West Antarctica, and it may be building up steam for a massive eruption, raising concerns about an increased rate of ice loss in the region.

Volcano Discovered Under Antarctic Ice: Scientists Say Heat Flow, Eruption Could Increase The Rate Of Ice Loss

“We know more about the surfaces of Venus and Mars than we do about the bathymetry of deep oceans,” said David Sandwell from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in the US.

“This new mapping from CryoSat will revolutionise our understanding of ocean floor tectonics and reveal, perhaps, 10 000 previously uncharted undersea volcanoes.”

Cryosat Goes to Sea

Perhaps it is a coincidence that we are seeing molten lava and melting ice. Or perhaps not. But the role of these newly discovered volcanoes at the polar caps should be considered.

a reply to: Chronon

Perhaps it is a coincidence that we are seeing molten lava and melting ice.

Where are we seeing molten lava?

a reply to: Chronon

Sub-glacial volcanoes are hardly new and the people of Iceland have the best word in the world for the floods that result from them - Jökulhlaups. However, individual volcanoes cannot explain the collapse of the West Antarctic ice sheet, nor can it explain the fact that it's snowing in those places of Antarctica that were previously so cold that they were classified as deserts.

a reply to: raymundoko

Hey raymundoko,

originally posted by: raymundoko
I disagree with you based on the past. s far as we can tell the Jurrasic period had no ice whatsoever and seems to be the most biologically diverse period of our history. Due to the abundance of flora and fauna it does not seem there were ANY extremes in weather. You drank the kool-aid :-(

a reply to: AboveBoard

P.S. I'm ACTUALLY a climate scientist and hold a masters in atmospheric physics and dynamics. I got lucky though and finished my degrees prior to AGW infiltrating the class rooms.

Edit: nothing else you posted has anything to do with global warming and more to do with human nature to find the easiest path of resistance no matter the collateral damage. I agree man is ruining his health and habitat, but trying to claim we'll have more severe weather patterns if the ice caps melt is beyond ignorant.

Point #1
As far as life-diversity in the Jurrasic period with no ice - I did NOT say that melting ice caps are going to kill us all NOR DID I SAY THAT MELTING ICE CAPS = MORE SEVERE WEATHER PATTERNS in and of themselves. That would be rising temperatures combined with more moisture in the air. I can see why you would think I'd make an illogical leap - the melting ice caps will create a rise in sea level, and if they continue, so will the rise - but this is across decades most likely. To me the ice caps melting are ONE point in a long list of many things, ALL of which are ultimately relatable to human activity (which is where many people disagree, I know.) Thus lumping them together in a rant on humanity's general destructive bent was, imo, not inappropriate. From your initial statement to me, you assumed I was waving my hands in fear of death of the ice caps - I merely explained my thoughts to assuage you of that opinion.

POINT #2
There ARE some definite impacts of temperatures rising beyond the melting of ice caps, of course... From the most recent assessment:

Figure SPM.2. Illustrative examples of global impacts projected for climate changes (and sea level and atmospheric carbon dioxide where relevant) associated with different amounts of increase in global average surface temperature in the 21st century [T20.8]. The black lines link impacts, dotted arrows indicate impacts continuing with increasing temperature. Entries are placed so that the left-hand side of the text indicates the approximate onset of a given impact. Quantitative entries for water stress and flooding represent the additional impacts of climate change relative to the conditions projected across the range of Special Report on Emissions Scenarios (SRES) scenarios A1FI, A2, B1 and B2 (see Endbox 3). Adaptation to climate change is not included in these estimations. All entries are from published studies recorded in the chapters of the Assessment. Sources are given in the right-hand column of the Table. Confidence levels for all statements are high.

POINT #3

AS to being "beyond ignorant" and your "kool-aid" comment regarding weather affects of warmer temperatures, is it not true that warmer temperatures mean the air can hold more water vapor? How would that NOT affect the amount and distribution of, say, flooding? Or the volume of moisture available to, say, a hurricane? In addition, global air circulation will slow down due to the warmer temperatures, meaning the moisture in the air will NOT be distributed equally, but more heavily in some places and not much at all in others which = floods and droughts. Generally speaking, dry regions will get drier and wet regions will get wetter.

Calling it "kool-aid" tends to imply politics? I could be wrong, of course, in your intended meaning - it is a phrase the Right often throws at the Left. Let it be known I am not a devotee of Al Gore, as I am just as obviously not worshiping at the feet of the American Right. Calling me "beyond ignorant" for being willing to look at explanations of the peer-reviewed science, is not acceptable and insulting (which was the point perhaps?).



- AB

Might end up feeling like a complete and utter tool for this but is this why Pensmore is being built in Highlandville, Missouri ? would floodwater reach there ?

Yes I know the Wiki link says the mansion when completed, will be the private home of Steven T. Huff and his family. It will be one of the largest private single-family residence in the United States.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

And so we see the beginning of the initiative to control even more assets
by the shadow government! Through doom and gloom they have become
expert at using our fears and differences to divide and manipulate us!
On top of controlling the military they also control media, intelligence,
finance, politics, judicial, industry, drug trade, communications, resources,
law enforcement and anything else that is lucrative or informative! As a
matter of fact the only things they don't control right now is our ability
to keep ourselves armed and our ability to access information through
the internet but right now they are hard at work trying to change all this!
Even though this all is happening and has been for so long now the majority
is totally oblivious of the truth! This reminds me somewhat of the movie
"They Live" where all the ads and signs have technology to keep us sleeping!
IMO This movie was not far from the truth except they are not aliens but
the shadow government which is sometimes also known as the military
industrial complex, called that mostly because of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's
famous speech telling us to beware of this entity! It somehow fell on deaf
ears for some reason. I don't know why none of those at the time took
his words seriously but I now no longer trust anything that provokes fear
in us!

Getting back to the original post I don't understand why global warming or
the melting of ice would provoke any worry! This is something which wont
effect us for years except for the problems we will see caused by BS legislation
used to destroy even more small businesses, middle class families and consolidate
even more money and power in even fewer peoples hands! Till we realize that
this oligarchy is the biggest threat to every man woman and child on our planet
we have failed to protect the integrity this nation was built on and have no insurance
that our children will even make it to see the western Antarctic ice sheet Disintegrate!

If we fail to act to bring about change who will?
Every time we kick the can down the road there
is less of the can for the next person to kick or
rescue! Responsibility is all of ours.............................
.......................................................................
\.................................................................../

a reply to: raymundoko

Okay...but we aren't talking about land ice.