REAL COST of OBAMACARE given to me by the Insurance Company!

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Age 60+, is that per month payments?

What 60+ year-old has an income that high they can pay that much a month?

Who knows?? But they are out there? This was the most expensive plan Blue Care offered...a "Ferrari plan"...no offense, but you are confused if you think I was citing it as an example of affordable healthcare, this was the plan that was falsely used to compare before and after "obamacare" in the OP.

I was just showing that even the most expensive plan is less expensive than claimed in the OP after Obamacare.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

What family can afford to send their kids to the doctor that many times to meet that deductible? That's extraordinarily high, so to meet that deductible, they are going to either have to give birth every year to meet it, have a very sick child or medical prices are going to have to go up, so they can meet it.

What plan are you talking about? Do you realize that I was citing two different plans?

a reply to: Indigo5

a few things i wanna point out...

OccamsRazor04 broke things down, and did a lot of digging, and presents some good information.

the letter the OP posted compared a number of plans to the 860

according to the site you posted, the data you posted about cost, etc, on the 1491P plan is inaccurate, because the cost of it varies, widely, depending on age and location.

i don't think the 1491P plan is the most expensive one they have.

a reply to: Indigo5

And again you completely ignore my post proving you are being deceptive and a hypocrite.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Indigo5

And again you completely ignore my post proving you are being deceptive and a hypocrite.

Absent you providing links to claims (like I have in every single post) I don't know how to take your generalizations seriously.

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: Indigo5

a few things i wanna point out...

OccamsRazor04 broke things down, and did a lot of digging, and presents some good information.

I don't consider the statement "I did a lot of digging" accompanied by zero supporting links, credible.

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: Indigo5

the letter the OP posted compared a number of plans to the 860

Correct. It also contained excessive, bold typed, language essentially shouting, that these plans weren't suited for outright comparison and yet the OP edited the letter to do just that.

originally posted by: Daedalus
according to the site you posted, the data you posted about cost, etc, on the 1491P plan is inaccurate, because the cost of it varies, widely, depending on age and location.

I provided a link. You can attempt to find a 1491P plan in Florida that is equal to or greater in cost than the OP/Letter claim? Because you are simply saying "Inaccurate" while I provided the link to show my claim as accurate...

I'll be waiting for you to support your claim? It's just a click away?

originally posted by: Daedalus
i don't think the 1491P plan is the most expensive one they have.

I don't know? Don't think that is necessarily relevant? Is 1491P the same as 860? Or are they radically different in almost every way that would effect cost? Doesn't that seem the relevant question? How long do you plan to abuse your logic centers on this question?

originally posted by: Indigo5
I don't consider the statement "I did a lot of digging" accompanied by zero supporting links, credible.

yes, a link would have been nice, but he did paste over the numbers....and it's not hard to look at the site, if you think the numbers are inaccurate...hell, i'd expect you to do that, so that if he's wrong you can say "HAH, look, you're a liar"

but you're not doing that, so....does that mean you didn't try, or that the numbers he posted weren't inaccurate?

it's not like the site is so super-secret, that nobody can find it...

Correct. It also contained excessive, bold typed, language essentially shouting, that these plans weren't suited for outright comparison and yet the OP edited the letter to do just that.

the letter is an example of a plan that they had to get rid of, because of the ACA, compared to a plan they are now required to offer, because of the ACA...i thought that part would have been obvious, based on the wording of the letter....

I provided a link. You can attempt to find a 1491P plan in Florida that is equal to or greater in cost than the OP/Letter claim? Because you are simply saying "Inaccurate" while I provided the link to show my claim as accurate...

I'll be waiting for you to support your claim? It's just a click away?

the table seems to have changed......when i looked at it yesterday, it had different prices for "age 27", "age 28", "age 29", etc....that was the inaccuracy i was talking about...since it no longer says what it did yesterday, i'll retract that.

one thing i will note is that the table provides no specific cost for male vs female, and we both know the pricing between the two is always different...this leads me to believe that the pricing listed on the table, is nothing more than estimates....it would require more interaction with the company, to get accurate prices..so i would say that it's not actually possible to make a serious comparison, using that table as your source of info..

additionally, and as i said, they're just estimates, but the cheapest bronze plan i could find was still significantly more expensive than the 860...

I don't know? Don't think that is necessarily relevant? Is 1491P the same as 860? Or are they radically different in almost every way that would effect cost? Doesn't that seem the relevant question? How long do you plan to abuse your logic centers on this question?

it's only relevant in that, you kept saying it was the most expensive..qualifying it that way, tends to make people who take things at face value, assume a certain bias, and creates a sort of atmosphere of absurdity...it's something of a manipulation tactic "oh, look, the op is full of s**t, because he's comparing a nothing plan, to the most expensive one there is"

again, it appears that the letter was simply to demonstrate examples of a plan they can no longer offer because of the ACA, vs a plan they are now required to offer, because of the ACA....i don't necessarily think they were trying to pass it off as a direct comparison, because obviously, the two plans aren't the same thing...

i'm not abusing anything.

Here is another major problem with the US health insurance system. We have hundreds of different plans to choose from, but almost all of them leave you vulnerable somehow.

I know of zero insurance plans that offer 100% coverage, zero out of pocket, no deductible, medicine is included. ObamaCare did nothing to help this, we just get more junk policies.

I am certain most Americans would be amazed at any other industrialized nation's healthcare system.

a reply to: Daedalus

I actually did research on the link wrabbit provided and found the same or lessor cost plans for 30+ in Florida issued by Blue Care on the exchange with actually lower deductibles and greater general benefits.

I was in the midst of creating a detailed response showing the same, but then it occurred to me that you had the same link? But choose not to? and rather just make me continually work to disprove random, inaccurate claims?

You can search for FL, and then sort by price and deductible, click through to the plans...and thought...Why am I bothering? These people don't care about facts..Here was the beginning of the post I was going to share...But honestly...you can find the truth yourself, why should I keep posting data when you guys are just denying or changing topics? Too much work with no acknowledgment of reality..

SO…For available Healthcare Plans in Florida after Obamacare for the 30+ bracket you specify..

Prices range from:
$92.93 per month
To
$497.63 per month

For an individual.

NOW…Lets limit to just “Bluecare Flordia” Policies…

From the OP: (Before Obamacare) COST for 30+ $195
BlueCare 806 HMO
Annual Deductible: $5,000 individual/ $10,000 family. $1,500 pharmacy brand deductible.
Maximum Out of Pocket expense: Individual: $15,000
Co-Payments: $35-65 for office visits
Brand Drugs Co-Pay: $1,500 out of pocket limit

On the exchange NOW after Obamacare
Bluecare Essential Plus 1463P COST 30+ $195.75
Annual Deductible: $3,500 individual/ $7,000 family.
Maximum Out of Pocket expense: Individual: $6,250 individual

*You can research the exchange yourself...AND there were much better plans at this price point than what I show above, but I limited my search to Blue Care Florida for relvance.

originally posted by: Daedalus
one thing i will note is that the table provides no specific cost for male vs female, and we both know the pricing between the two is always different...this leads me to believe that the pricing listed on the table, is nothing more than estimates....

Not to call you out on knowledge of the topic...But one of the fundamentals of ACA is that Healthcare providers no longer charge different rates for Men vs. Women.

originally posted by: Daedalus
it's only relevant in that, you kept saying it was the most expensive..qualifying it that way, tends to make people who take things at face value, assume a certain bias, and creates a sort of atmosphere of absurdity...it's something of a manipulation tactic "oh, look, the op is full of s**t, because he's comparing a nothing plan, to the most expensive one there is"

It's also reality? Have you ever had a plan that had ZERO Deductible and Co-Pay and virtually paid for everything?

There is an "air of absurdity"...but that was caused by the OP premise, not me pointing out the glaring failure of that premise.

Again...I stop caring about a thread right about the time people demonstrate they are unwilling to acknowledge reality.

From there forward it is about as productive as beating your head on a wall.

I have researched and shared extensive data and supported everything I have said.

Please let me know if you can disprove, with links what I have demonstrated.

If not...what's the point beside baiting or ideological aggression?

I am a fan of truth and reality, far more than I am of ACA or Obama et al.

Whilst many people here start their "logic" in reverse...pick a side, ignore facts as necessary and go full throttle.

a reply to: Indigo5

admittedly, i've not read the ACA...but i don't think you can fault me for that, because i doubt you have either, have you?

after a little google-fu, i've found that it does, indeed call for equal pricing....but in doing so, it seems to disproportionately raise premiums for men, because now they hafta pay for services and such, that they're NEVER going to use...not because they're frivolous, but because they're biologically incapable of making use of them.

and yes, i obviously have the same links as you, but i'm still saying i think the prices are estimates. i base this theory on the fact that there are still determining factors (tobacco use, etc) that will impact pricing....those details would be ironed out during the enrollment process...

additionally, as i stated before, and let me preface this by saying that i am ONLY talking about bluecare in the state and county of the OP, because citing anything else would just be idiotic...

the cheapest, bronze-level plan i could find was still significantly more expensive than the bluecare 806...this would be a more fair comparison, as the 806 appears to be a rather barebones policy, and so is the 1486(cheapest bronze)

it's more expensive, and has a higher deductible www.bcbsfl.com...

i mean, this whole thing aside, there are a lot of things about the ACA that make it bad...the individual mandate, open enrollment periods, plan requirements, people losing their plans, because they're no longer offered....there's a lot to be pissed about, and, i mean, higher prices DO exist...

i don't think i'm sidestepping, or disregarding reality, and i'm not deliberately talking out of my ass....i'm honestly not trying to be an idiot, or piss you off...just wanted you to know that.

originally posted by: Daedalus
the cheapest, bronze-level plan i could find was still significantly more expensive than the bluecare 806...this would be a more fair comparison, as the 806 appears to be a rather barebones policy, and so is the 1486(cheapest bronze)

That is kind of the point...The Bluecare 806 cited in the OP would not qualify as a Bronze Level Plan if it still existed...it would be considered a Catastrophic plan at best. So by you choosing a Bronze Level Plan, you are still comparing apples to oranges and then assigning a price differential.

There are, in fact many plans at Bluecare 806 price point with equal or better benefits. But none of them would be "Bronze"....and neither would 806.

originally posted by: Daedalus

i mean, this whole thing aside, there are a lot of things about the ACA that make it bad...the individual mandate, open enrollment periods, plan requirements, people losing their plans, because they're no longer offered....there's a lot to be pissed about, and, i mean, higher prices DO exist...

In debate terms, this is called "Laundry listing" and while I understand the sentiment, it is by design difficult or impossible to respond to by it's nature of a "laundry list" of items that each require a deep dive response.

originally posted by: Daedalus

i don't think i'm sidestepping, or disregarding reality, and i'm not deliberately talking out of my ass....i'm honestly not trying to be an idiot, or piss you off...just wanted you to know that.

I appreciate it. I am triggered by BS...that means I engage emotionally when I spot egregious BS. It offends me at my core in political debate. I see it as someone exploiting the gullible...Or using people because they think the listener is too dense or unwilling to spot the BS. I don't like being BSed, I don't like when I see other people BSed. It's offensive to me...It is propagandists and wordsmiths in DC assuming we are all too stupid to figure out the truth and thus they can poke and herd us as they choose.

This OP was false in it's Premise. ...and intentionally so. Bring me one that is anti-ACA that is true in it's premise and not rhetoric or propaganda and I will agree with and defend it. Until then my only solution is to dig for reality beneath the BS whatever side of the aisle it originates from.

originally posted by: Indigo5
That is kind of the point...The Bluecare 806 cited in the OP would not qualify as a Bronze Level Plan if it still existed...it would be considered a Catastrophic plan at best. So by you choosing a Bronze Level Plan, you are still comparing apples to oranges and then assigning a price differential.

oh, ffs, can i do NOTHING right?

ok, let's take a look at catastrophic...

There are, in fact many plans at Bluecare 806 price point with equal or better benefits. But none of them would be "Bronze"....and neither would 806.

no. for the area in question, there is only ONE catastrophic plan available...the BlueOptions Catastrophic 1433

the premium is higher than the 806, the deductible is higher than the 806, it covers less, and is generally an even s**ttier plan than the 806, here, have a look...

www.bcbsfl.com...
www.bcbsfl.com...

In debate terms, this is called "Laundry listing" and while I understand the sentiment, it is by design difficult or impossible to respond to by it's nature of a "laundry list" of items that each require a deep dive response.

it wasn't really meant to be responded to...it was just a statement of other things that are wrong with the ACA....venturing off into the directions of the items listed would pull the thread off-topic...not what i intended to do..

I appreciate it. I am triggered by BS...that means I engage emotionally when I spot egregious BS. It offends me at my core in political debate. I see it as someone exploiting the gullible...Or using people because they think the listener is too dense or unwilling to spot the BS. I don't like being BSed, I don't like when I see other people BSed. It's offensive to me...It is propagandists and wordsmiths in DC assuming we are all too stupid to figure out the truth and thus they can poke and herd us as they choose.

This OP was false in it's Premise. ...and intentionally so. Bring me one that is anti-ACA that is true in it's premise and not rhetoric or propaganda and I will agree with and defend it. Until then my only solution is to dig for reality beneath the BS whatever side of the aisle it originates from.

it would seem we think alike, at least with regards to B.S., and people being taken advantage of....who knew? i always thought you were just another wrong-minded jerkoff, lol

perhaps the OP misunderstood the letter, and overreacted a bit...i have no idea, i'm not gonna presume to speak for him. he can do that very well himself....

the OP DID start a conversation about the cost of all this....which i think is a good conversation to be having, and is still within the spirit of the OP...

originally posted by: Daedalus
no. for the area in question, there is only ONE catastrophic plan available...the BlueOptions Catastrophic 1433

.

I am missing specific region of Florida...What county? I will limit my search there and be back to you.

And star for your post above, we might disagree, but not always.

a reply to: Indigo5

Nassau county

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

a reply to: Indigo5



And again you completely ignore my post proving you are being deceptive and a hypocrite.

Absent you providing links to claims (like I have in every single post) I don't know how to take your generalizations seriously.

I listed the EXACT plans and the EXACT quote from the official website. You listed nothing to contradict my claims. How about you prove me wrong by proving what the actual prices are for the plans I listed? I could not have been any clearer with my posts. You simply do not care about the truth, you are a hypocrite.

Poster says he is in Nassau county, 32011 zip code, I checked again, it's even MORE expensive than what I listed previously.

consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com...

There is your link, no idea why you can't Google like I did.

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: Indigo5

Nassau county

You are correct in your numbers. I was running numbers on the State of Florida absent the County specifics. Thank you for that data point.

things to note....Blue Care Florida has a lock on Nassau County...no other providers and Nassau County appears to be one of the most expensive counties to insure. A recipe for screwing people on prices.

Eleven insurance providers are participating in Florida’s Marketplace, although only Blue Shield of Florida is offering plans throughout the state.60 Floridians will have an average of 102 Qualified Health Plans (QHPs) per region, although the number of available QHPs is much lower in many of the state’s rural counties. The Marketplace will offer Bronze to Platinum level plans, all of which cover the Essential Health Benefits.61 Individuals can sign up for coverage by visiting www.healthcare.gov and those who have incomes between 100% and 400% FPL may qualify for sliding-scale premium tax credits to lower the cost of coverage.

kff.org...

I reserve the possibility that subsidies might bring down the cost of the nearest comparable plan, but not knowing the financials of the OP and not comfortable asking the same, will leave that one be.

a reply to: Indigo5

awesome.

now....my question that i will pose to you, and it's not meant to be argumentative, or antagonistic, is this:

if it's true in one county in Florida, is it possible that it might be true elsewhere as well?

is it possible that the ACA isn't as wonderful as it's being made out to be?

i'm not asking you to change your position, and i'm not asking you to automatically agree with whatever assertions i make...since i have a sense of how you think now, i know that won't happen....all i'm asking is if you'll be willing to believe it's possible.

originally posted by: Daedalus
now....my question that i will pose to you, and it's not meant to be argumentative, or antagonistic, is this:
if it's true in one county in Florida, is it possible that it might be true elsewhere as well?

Yes...It is undoubtedly true in other states in given counties. It is a trend that has been occurring for a long time where insurers abandon high-risk, small pool counties and leave one Insurer (as a pseudo-monopoly).

originally posted by: Daedalus

is it possible that the ACA isn't as wonderful as it's being made out to be?

My eyes have always been wide open. ACA is and never was never "wonderful" it was however an improvement upon the system we had which was indisputably horrible at best and "failed" at worst. And by any measure it is better than the GOP alternative to pay what we tell you or "eff off and die".

originally posted by: Daedalus

i'm not asking you to change your position, and i'm not asking you to automatically agree with whatever assertions i make...since i have a sense of how you think now, i know that won't happen....all i'm asking is if you'll be willing to believe it's possible.

See above...Costs in Nassau County Florida pre-ACA?


Now...What also hasn't been fully articulated...Did the OP actually have that cheap plan he showed in the OP/ Plan 806? because the letter looked like it was just showing sample plans...806 at that price point might not have been previously available in Nassau County.

In order for us to figure out if his rates went up for the same plan...what specific plan did the OP have before and what was he paying. I'd like to dig into those facts.

Because I suspect Nassau County has always been more expensive...and the possibility remains that there are more affordable options on the exchange in comparison to the specific plan and cost the OP was already paying.

Remember...once we got a look at the letter Florida Blue sent out ...it was clear the 806 was not a plan they citing specifically as his, but rather a sample among many.

Let's keep it Apples to Apples...Give me the plan and premium of what the Op was previously paying in Nassau County Florida and I will verify...and if true, then I can agree with you Obamacare screwed Nassau County Florida.

a reply to: Indigo5

that sounds fair.

however, that might be information you won't be able to get, as soliciting personal information from members violates the T&C...it's possible we've gone as far as we can, with this particular math problem.

though....in the spirit of the thread topic....we COULD dig around for examples of plans in other states, that are no longer available because of the ACA, and then compare them, to similar plans currently available, and see what the screw factor is elsewhere...