Sandy Hook Forensic Evidence

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

-poke- ..i...kinda just said that, lol

don't crap out on me now...

originally posted by: FuZe7
Is there documentation showing us how many people in total are witnesses to the actuall bodies and crime scene?

Yes, there is …
In fact that is one aspect of the case which was kept strictly compartmentalized.
The list of people (police, EMTs, detectives, students) who laid eyes on anything in that building was obsessively monitored; and as far as I can tell, this occurred straight from the arrival of the first officers on scene).

The reports even mention that the detectives—and this is several days/weeks later—went to go interview a SHES teacher (who was in an entirely different section of the building away from the crime scene(s)) so that they could confiscate the drawings which her students had made during the lockdown of 12/14 She had given them crayons and paper to occupy them, and the detectives wanted to ensure that none of the students had “drawn anything related to the shooting”. Crayon drawings, remember … not cell phone pics or anything.
Very strange.

In another section of the (Book 8) supplementary reports, the detectives are investigating a woman who had claimed to be working as a Yale Children's Medical surgeon who was assigned to work identifying the bodies inside the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner's DMORT tent set up in the parking lot.
The woman told the detective that she “couldn't get the faces of the children out of her head”.

Anyhow, the detective just knew that she wasn't there, and confronted her about it.
Eventually she admitted to making it all up.

it's a puzzle, it truly is~

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

-poke- ..i...kinda just said that, lol

don't crap out on me now...

—wakes up—
Wha … oh.
(Hadn't refreshed my page before posting)

What can I say, friend, it's been a long day~



ETA:
But you didn't say anything about these guys



When did Snowden leave? Lol

originally posted by: notquitesure

originally posted by: Honcho

originally posted by: PlanetxIsComing
a reply to: Honcho

This maybe fine work but I don't see any mention of dead bodies in this false planted information, it never happened please wake up people it was a false flag nothing more, can't believe i wasted my time reading it, and now I will leave this thread, so I won't be reading your insults thanks

What would be the point of making up a story out of thin air and then trying to sell it to the public? It would be much more effective to simply carry it out and just use a patsy as the fall guy. That is to say if there was a outside group of people in on a conspiracy in the first place.

You honestly think if people would be motivated enough to stage an attack like this they wouldn't actually carry it out in reality? It would be to risky and harder to cover it up by doing it the hard way like that. Too many people were involved and the word would get out eventually. I doubt a group of psychos would squirm at having to kill a couple dozen people, to help sell their plan, children or not.

Explain to me how it would be more efficient to make up some phony story that never happened.

Playing devil's advocate...

Which would be more effective?


1. Killing a couple dozen people and dealing with the angry aftermath from hundreds of family and friends?


Or

2. Paying a couple dozen people to play along, under threat of death if they cross you?


It could be argued that it would be easier to manage scenario two than scenario one.


**Note: Not saying in any way, shape, or form that this is what happened. Simply discussing the philosophy behind such a premise. This isn't an original concept. See the movie "Wag the Dog," for instance.

It would've taken only a few people to carry it out. Maybe even one if they were good enough.

Having to pay teachers, police, doctors, coroners, paramedics, families, and bystanders off would be pretty dumb of a thing to do. You can't expect dozens of people to keep quiet about it. Once again, it would just be doing it the hard way. Could it have gone down that way? Sure, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but to me, it would be a very stupid plan. And it probably would've been blown open by now.

Having to get maybe 1-3 hit-men to do it and just blame it on a hermit with social and mental problems would be much, much easier to do. It's a lot more believable and less risky. If there was a ground-breaking conspiracy hiding in the shadows that is.

I am going to put this up in case anyone wants it:

It's a presentation on Mass Casualty Incident START Triage protocol, which seems close to what they used in the school.

As far as I know the document doesn't appear to say anything about cardiac monitors, which is what they used for the pronouncement of death at SHES, as part of a reassessment, even though it's my understanding that what the 3 EMTS are calling “secondary triage” is intended to be more for differentiation and/or prioritizing between those of the same color codes, after the initial tagging (which never happened at Sandy Hook).

Also it appears that they had to leave the building to get medical supplies (what?) multiple times.
One of the times is, I believe, to go get the cardiac monitor, right before they black-tagged everyone (or, all but the 3 in the bathroom).

I wonder if anyone who was paying attention, noticed that the EMT stated that they tried to go in Room #12 (first door on the left, Roig), but it was locked. But remember, that in Kaitlin Roig's official account and in her nation-wide motivational speeches† she says that she didn't have time to lock the door.
So they go into the next room, Room #10, and see bodies.
Then they go into Room #8, and someone says that there's a 2nd shooter, so they clear the room and begin searching for the 2nd shooter (the paramedics are doing this?)

Anyhow, they go into the next rooms and find “several live victims”

Who were these “live victims” further up the hall? Why would they be victims?‡


(†) Speech: October 2, 2013
(@time: 00:00:50 = 50 sec)


(‡) the victims were in Room #8, #10, 1 wounded in #9, along with the principal and psychologist in the front hallway.

originally posted by: Honcho
You honestly think if people would be motivated enough to stage an attack like this they wouldn't actually carry it out in reality? It would be to risky and harder to cover it up by doing it the hard way like that. Too many people were involved and the word would get out eventually. I doubt a group of psychos would squirm at having to kill a couple dozen people, to help sell their plan, children or not.
Explain to me how it would be more efficient to make up some phony story that never happened.

As Wolfgang Halbig has pointed out, there has not been one lawsuit filed by the victim's families, which is unheard of in these types of cases. In the Columbine massacre case of '99, family members filed numerous lawsuits which eventually forced the release of thousands of pages of official documents, which ended up feeding the conspiracy theories. Information uncovered by one parent resulted in an additional outside investigation being done by another agency. Thus you never know where those lawsuits can lead. Thus one motive for faking it may have been to close the books on the case early on.

Another reason may have been difficulty recruiting killers for the task. Even hardened assassins may have blanched at killing victims of such youth and innocence.

originally posted by: Zephyranth
And what about the forensic evidence for the deceased victims?

In August of 2013, eight months after the tragedy, the parents of one deceased Sandy Hook student called a meeting with police to ask several questions, including one starling one: Was their child one of those transported by ambulance that day to the hospital?

Eight months after the fact, and the parents don't know whether, or how, their child was removed from the scene?

Are you saying that all of the posts I've seen claiming that

originally posted by: Name REDACTED
I repeat ... The people of that town are satisfied.
The parents of the dead are satisfied.

were made by people who were just presuming that the parents were satisfied with what they've been told?

All jesting aside,
I've got two serious questions for you, Zephyr:

1. We already have proof-positive that Sedensky's timeline is 100% impossible—just based on Ginsberg's expert analysis alone—which is found within the report itself. So I ask, why, in your view, is the State's Attorney proclaiming such an obvious, easily discovered falsity in placing the last shot fired at 9:39:* ~ 9:40:03 AM?
   I mean, anyone who listens to the 911 calls on an iPod in one hand with a stopwatch in the other can prove that he's lying.
   Why is he risking his reputation (not to mention potential legal strife) over a couple of minutes? There has to be a reason; it just doesn't make sense. Assuming for the sake of argument that the rest of the story was kosher (which it most certainly is NOT), then he could just tell the truth and no one would've said a thing about it.
   I really just don't get it. Is compulsive lying something people just can't control? †
   
2. Would you by chance have the Hoboken, NJ and/of the Port Authority scanner feed(s) from 12/14?
   
   ~C
   
   (†) more likely is that those minutes are somehow important in some way people haven't yet realized …
   
   edit on 12-5-2014 by 3mperorConstantinE because: (no reason given)
   

originally posted by: DarksideOz

originally posted by: FuZe7
Is there documentation showing us how many people in total are witnesses to the actuall bodies and crime scene?

Hard to say exactly, considering one of the "witnesses" who even went on TV with his heart pouring out, was seen laughing and joking with the other people around him, not realising he was being filmed, but it wasn't going live. Once the action call was given, he instantly change his facial expression from laughing and joking to a dead serious look and poured on the emotion. Much like how a news reader makes a light hearted comment for one story, but then instantly puts on the "serious face" as the next story is a less light-hearted. This guy was, in my opinion, a paid actor. Why do we have paid actors posing as parents of slain children ? Why, because it's all part of the cover up. He played his ROLE, he would of been financially rewarded for his ROLE. But who is it that plays a role.........an actor !

No genuinely grieving parent on this planet would be cracking jokes until the "action" call came. NO PARENT. If you genuinely lost your child in this fashion, you would NOT be cracking jokes for a LONG time. You would NOT be laughing and smiling "off camera" but then go as serious as possible once the camera went live. This is yet another of their lies, and I would like to know a lot more about this guy, and his REAL background.

link?

thanks

a reply to: lifecitizen


Sorry, that was rude of me.

OP, great thread and a great read, thanks everyone

Edit to add. Darkside Oz- disregard my post to you, I found some interviews.

and just wow, you arent joking. that guy wasnt normal, and neither are any of the others Ive seen so far.

wow, just wow. this thread is incredible. 3mperorConstantinE you've done an amazing job compiling all of this information and providing it in such a linear and concise way.

i never felt the official story line for sandy hook was agreeable. but, seeing that there was a DNA match for a known convicted felon in the criminal database. the lack of adam's DNA on some items and the presence of an unknown DNA on other integral items is shocking. and that card, to the young children of sandy hook elementary school. my god, what i wouldn't give to know the contents of that sealed envelop without Adam's DNA present on it.

These things should be headline news, but like previously mentioned anything against the official narrative doesn't have a place in the mainstream media. This is why I'm thankful for places like ATS where evidence can be shown an analyzed by more critical minds and evaluated by a like minded community of real truth seekers.

I wonder if it would be possible for a remote viewer to gain insight into the contents of that sealed letter written by anonymous?

There's something rotten in Denmark indeed.

Really good thread, old school ATS style ! No arguing and everything, just facts, delightful ! Threads like these are the reason I joinded ATS, it's a shame that they are now becoming scarce...

The amount of evidence that was not followed up on is just amazing (in a bad way) !!!

And I do like Asktheanimals theory about witness protection, it would explain alot.

I have no input, not enough knowledge about the case. But 3mperorConstantinE wouldn't it be worth compiling the evidence and giving full details to the MSM to see how that goes ?... Never know someone might start asking for answers and more chance of that happening if all this could go mainstream...

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

What the police report says absolutely nothing about is that apparently someone thought she had a chance at making it, because—even though now undergoing rigor mortis—her body arrived at Dr. H. Wayne Carver II's building in Farmington, CT with medical resuscitation leads on the left side of her waist and her left wrist.†

Pretty sure that is standard procedure. First responders always try to resuscitate a dead victim, even those with gunshot wounds to the head. A simple google search will many example of similar situations. I believe the only time they will not try to resuscitate a victim, is if the body has been dead for awhile, is decapitated, brain blown out, or major organs exposed.

His DNA found was found on the side of the Mark .22 that was used to shoot his mother, and possibly on the barrel end. His DNA was not found on the bullets, the trigger, the shoulder stock, the envelope, the stamp, the Bushmaster, the 5.56x45's or even the doors to his car. Both sides of the envelope, the card, the adhesive side of the stamp, and the .22LR bullets were all found to have DNA MATCHING SOMEONE IN THE CONVICTED FELON DNA DATABASE FOR NEW YORK STATE From page 5 of report #00124235 “The DNA Results eliminate both Nancy Lanza and Adam Lanza as the source of DNA found on the driver's side front door handle and driver's side exterior door handle on the suspect vehicles car as well as the gun.”

DNA is not always recoverable, so on some items he may have "shed" his DNA on and some he may not have.

Exterior door handles, possibly from police or someone else on the scene. As for the envelope, contamination could be a possibility, although without further information I wouldn't be able to come to a conclusion on it, one way or another.

originally posted by: DarksideOz

originally posted by: FuZe7
Is there documentation showing us how many people in total are witnesses to the actuall bodies and crime scene?

Hard to say exactly, considering one of the "witnesses" who even went on TV with his heart pouring out, was seen laughing and joking with the other people around him, not realising he was being filmed, but it wasn't going live. Once the action call was given, he instantly change his facial expression from laughing and joking to a dead serious look and poured on the emotion. Much like how a news reader makes a light hearted comment for one story, but then instantly puts on the "serious face" as the next story is a less light-hearted. This guy was, in my opinion, a paid actor. Why do we have paid actors posing as parents of slain children ? Why, because it's all part of the cover up. He played his ROLE, he would of been financially rewarded for his ROLE. But who is it that plays a role.........an actor !

No genuinely grieving parent on this planet would be cracking jokes until the "action" call came. NO PARENT. If you genuinely lost your child in this fashion, you would NOT be cracking jokes for a LONG time. You would NOT be laughing and smiling "off camera" but then go as serious as possible once the camera went live. This is yet another of their lies, and I would like to know a lot more about this guy, and his REAL background.

Really? You know that for a fact? People don't joke around and laugh after a tragedy or if they lost someone close to them? Everyone reacts differently when they have lost loved ones. Have you ever been to a funeral? I have seen people laugh one minute when talking to someone and then cry the next. For all we know he could have been talking about a fond memory. Hell, maybe he was telling a joke, maybe he was trying to take his mind off the fact that his daughter was just shot and killed.

You know, as a father myself, it pisses me off that you make an accusation like this. I'm not sure if you have kids or not, I'm not sure how many loved ones in your family have passed away tragically, but I know for a fact that you nor anyone else has any right to judge how this poor guys deals with the loss of his daughter.

I've had some tragedy in my life and I know I have been able to laugh right before crying. I know I would try to busy myself with other things and not just sit around and think about the loss, but when someone I saw that I would immediately associate with the person I lost, I would immediately tear up.

So do me a favor. Don't assume you know what this guy feels or how he deals emotionally with the loss of his daughter, because you have no idea.

I'll tell you what, I hope the parents of these victims don't read these conspiracies. Some of you people are really sick.

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
-- snip --
i never felt the official story line for sandy hook was agreeable. but, seeing that there was a DNA match for a known convicted felon in the criminal database. the lack of adam's DNA on some items and the presence of an unknown DNA on other integral items is shocking. and that card, to the young children of sandy hook elementary school. my god, what i wouldn't give to know the contents of that sealed envelop without Adam's DNA present on it.
-- snip --

Agreed, even the parts I snipped for space... Two things that come to my mind:

#1. I may have misunderstood, but I thought card to the children was the one that was sealed. If it was swabbed for DNA, surely they opened the flap to swab the adhesive strips inside. With it safely tucked away into "another" case, it's anyone's guess if we ever find out.

#2. I keep seeing that DNA testing only mentions African-American, Caucasian and Hispanic. DNA is beyond my purview, but I keep wondering why Asian isn't listed on the possible hits.

a reply to: tide88

Come on though. I appreciate we all deal with grief differently, but it did look a lot like the guy didn't realise he was immediately being filmed. And then proceeded to get into 'character'. If that was the only oddity in this tale then maybe it could be overlooked as strange but not pertinent.
How is it sick to discuss this? It's not like we've called a meeting at Newtown community center. All people want is the truth and it doesn't seem like we know what that is right now.

a reply to: WeSbO

I personally want to see 60 minutes interview Lt.Vance and ask him the questions.

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

Hey EC - don't have time to post in detail now but yes I have Hoboken. Sadly, don't have Port Authority, and the archives from that day have long cycled off.

I do have audio from about seven other agencies though (Southwest CMED, etc).

I think Sedensky counted on most people not bothering to read the 7000 pages AND listen to the 911 calls AND have spent months figuring out what time those 911 calls were made.

Once you put the 911 calls in the right place on the timeline--a somewhat laborious process--everything snaps into place. But the average Joe is not going to do that. The average Joe is not even going to see Sedensky's "probably the final shot," and give it a passing thought. Just my quick answer--will think abt your question tho and write again.

Very nice post. Having strived to remain neutral and present only the facts, those facts raise a lot of questions, don't they? Inconsistencies galore, from what I read.

What stuck out to me was the DNA hit from NYSP, then a DNA swabbing from the Subaru with NY tags? Yet there is no further mention of these facts. Could this be related to the dude running through the woods that was shown on TV?

originally posted by: 3mperorConstantinE
a reply to: aivlas

Unless EMT's are known to undertake (completely undocumented) CPR+electrocardiographic attempts at resuscitation on a patient with rigor-mortis after having died of FOUR gunshot holes to their face … then I would be forced to ‘guess’ that they were put on:
before

?

Glad I'm not the only one who is contemplating the implications of that oddity.

In some areas the AED screen is the confirmation they need to pronounce death on scene.

In my area they hook everyone up to the AED upon arrival, unless there is obvious decomposition.


I've been in emergency medicine for 20+ years as both a road paramedic and an ER RN, and I find nothing odd about this.

originally posted by: 3mperorConstantinE
I am going to put this up in case anyone wants it:

It's a presentation on Mass Casualty Incident START Triage protocol, which seems close to what they used in the school.

As far as I know the document doesn't appear to say anything about cardiac monitors, which is what they used for the pronouncement of death at SHES, as part of a reassessment, even though it's my understanding that what the 3 EMTS are calling “secondary triage” is intended to be more for differentiation and/or prioritizing between those of the same color codes, after the initial tagging (which never happened at Sandy Hook).

Also it appears that they had to leave the building to get medical supplies (what?) multiple times.
One of the times is, I believe, to go get the cardiac monitor, right before they black-tagged everyone (or, all but the 3 in the bathroom).

I wonder if anyone who was paying attention, noticed that the EMT stated that they tried to go in Room #12 (first door on the left, Roig), but it was locked. But remember, that in Kaitlin Roig's official account and in her nation-wide motivational speeches† she says that she didn't have time to lock the door.
So they go into the next room, Room #10, and see bodies.
Then they go into Room #8, and someone says that there's a 2nd shooter, so they clear the room and begin searching for the 2nd shooter (the paramedics are doing this?)

Anyhow, they go into the next rooms and find “several live victims”

Who were these “live victims” further up the hall? Why would they be victims?‡

 

(†) Speech: October 2, 2013
(@time: 00:00:50 = 50 sec)

(‡) the victims were in Room #8, #10, 1 wounded in #9, along with the principal and psychologist in the front hallway.

You do not have to be dead to be a vicim. As far as the doors, could simply be a mistake. I'm sure it was chaotic I'm there, there are bound to be many different accounts.