US voices 'concerns' at sale of French warships to Russia

Hi Folks.

Heard this on the news (source BFM and only in French) but sadly had to use Yahoo as a reference as for the moment most media outlets are keeping their gobs shut about this one. :

Awwwwwww... Boo hoo... Diddums... just because the US Gvt (not the people) can't sell boats to Russia during the ongoing actual conflict... they have to keep on using their usual tactic of bullying the world... and now including allies???

Washington (AFP) - US officials voiced concern Thursday at the sale of French warships to Moscow as they mulled tougher sanctions on Russia for the political upheaval triggered by the Ukraine crisis.

The first of two Mistral warships is not due to be delivered to Russia until later this year, and France has so far resisted pressure to suspend the controversial $1.2 billion contract.

The Mistral is an advanced helicopter assault ship and France's 2011 agreement to sell them to Russia already triggered protests from the United States and other NATO allies.

More here :

news.yahoo.com...

France... A tiny country compared to the USA... who try to make money too... Apparently a fair and square tender that France won...

What the Russian Gvt has to say :

Moscow will seek damages from France if the deal on Mistral helicopter carriers is canceled, the Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday.

"The Russian side will unconditionally stand for its rights in line with the deals signed and demand to repay all losses incurred by cancellation of the contract on Mistral," Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov told reporters.

"I hope the French side will balance everything and make a correct decision," the Interfax news agency quoted Borisov as saying.

He added that France risks undermining its credibility as an international business partner if the contract to build two Mistral ships is not executed.

On Monday, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said a possible annulment of the contract was among the sanctions against Russia over its Crimea annexation. He said Paris might take this step in the event of further escalation of the situation in Ukraine.

Russia signed a 1.58-billion-US dollar deal with a French shipyard in 2011 for two Mistral-class ships, the first one is due for delivery in 2014 and the second in 2015.

More here : www.globaltimes.cn...

Erm... before anyone goes any further in slagging off the French...and I know darned well that some teeth gnashers and shills are just waiting at the starting line for the pistol to go off, maybe it might be an idea to look at the last statistics I could find concerning arms sales from the US here : www.statisticbrain.com...

Ooooooooo just noticed... the USA haven't sold any boats yet up until 2008 according to the statictics listed below from the same source as above :

SORRY CANNOT FIND MORE RECENT FIGURES but would be grateful if some of you folks have something to share... probably get flamed from "CERTAIN PEOPLE" who will say that my sources are not reliable...

U.S. Arms Sales Statistics :

Total U.S. deliveries from 2001 to 2008 :

Tanks and self-propelled guns 3,409
Surface-to-air missiles 1,017
APCs and armored cars 650
Anti-Ship missiles 551
Artillery 417
Helicopters 172
Supersonic Combat Aircraft 159
Other aircraft 92
Minor Surface Combatants 25
Subsonic Combat Aircraft 17
Major Surface Combatants 10

World Arms Sales Statistics :

Total arms sales including military services in 2010 $406.25 Billion
Total arms sales including military services in 2000 $250 Billion
Total number of small arms in circulation 600 million
Total Arms Sales by Year (not including military services) In Billions
2013 $61.2 Billion
2008 $55.2
2007 $59.7
2006 $57.2
2005 $49.2
2004 $47.1
2003 $36.3
2002 $34.2
2001 $38.6
2000 $45

Top Global Arms Exporters :

United States Percent of global arms exports 30 %

Breakdown of U.S. arms exports :

South Korea 13 %
Australia 10 %
United Arab Emirates 7 %
Pakistan 6 %
Singapore 6 %
Other 58 %

Russia Percent of global arms exports 24 %

Breakdown of Russian. arms exports :

India 33 %
China 16 %
Algeria 14 %
Venezuela 7 %
Vietnam 4 %
Other 26 %

Germany Percent of global arms exports 9 %

Breakdown of Germany’s arms exports :

Greece 13 %
South Korea 10 %
South Africa 9 %
Turkey 8 %
Spain 7 %
Other 53 %

France Percent of global arms exports 8 %

Breakdown of France’s arms exports :

Singapore 20 %
Greece 10 %
Morocco 8 %
China 8 %
Australia 8 %
Other 47 %

Britain Percent of global arms exports 4 %

Breakdown of Britain’s arms exports :

Saudi Arabia 28 %
United States 21 %
India 15 %
Chile 6 %
China 4 %
Other 27 %

Ten Largest Arms-Producing Companies in 2006 Sales

1 Boeing (USA) $30,690,000
2 Lockheed Martin (USA) $28,120,000
3 BAE Systems (UK) $24,060,000
4 Northrop Grumman (USA) $23,650,000
5 Raytheon (USA) $19,530,000
6 General Dynamics (USA) $18,770,000
7 EADS (West Europe) $12,600,000
8 L-3 Communications $9,980,000
9 Finmeccanica (Italy) $8,990,000
10 Thales (France) $8,240,000

Top Arms Purchasing Countries from 2001 to 2008

1 Saudi Arabia $36.7 Billion
2 India $30.8
3 United Arab Emirates $15.3
4 China $12.9
5 Egypt $12.3
6 Pakistan $11.8
7 Israel $7.1
8 Syria $6.5
9 Venezuela $5.8
10 Algeria $4.9

Can anyone help with more up to date figures?

US Gvt... STOP TRYING TO TRAMPLE THE REST OF THE WORLD DOWN AND LOOK AFTER YOUR OWN CITIZENS FIRST... The quagmire you have created over there needs to be fixed first without tampering with the rest of world peace...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I'll have to comment my friend.

I wonder how big the wine cellar is on these ships.

Russia is never going to buy a ship from the US, it just would not do. I am guessing here but Russia must need these in a hurry and is trying to make friends at the same time.

Just like the US to bully an ally while they try to work themselves into a corner on rocket engines and seats to the ISS, both rather funny in my book.

Good thread, S&F material.

P

Looks like France has chosen it's side. Let Russia have 'em, they stink , talk funny and drive in circles.

We won't be there to take back their country for them this time when their own troops refuse to fight. Cowardly nations do cowardly things, like selling weapons and ships to a potential enemy.

who cares?

If you want to buy warships, you can buy warships.

Its not hard and if EU and US says no you can go eastern and get an asian one from china or whoever.

Its 99% abut what you actually do with them that counts, the getting is nothing.

a reply to: Rodinus

I am not an educated man. Politics and economics are not close to my arena. I will say that the US needs to let other countries decide for themselves where to place their loyalties. By that I mean - it seems the cold war I grew up in is coming back around. If France wants "switch sides" that is for her to decide.

I have been a soldier for over half my life. I have put my life on the line in over 20 countries where people here say I didn't belong. I try not to comment about the decision makers and their thought processes as that has always been "above my pay grade". I can comment all day about what happened as a result of those decisions, down in the dirt, down where the people are. I have never been to a country where the common person did not thank me for being there.

I have never seen a Frenchman in any of my trips. I did worked with several of their "foreign troops" in a couple of countries over the years. Never the French Army though.

My rambling point is, as a soldier, I would hardly call the French our ally.

(Will the Russians need special training to drive any French equipment? I was told French military transmissions are 5-speeds. Four in reverse and one in forward (in case the enemy gets behind them) - couldn't resist the old joke, sorry)

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Looks like France has chosen it's side. Let Russia have 'em, they stink , talk funny and drive in circles.

We won't be there to take back their country for them this time when their own troops refuse to fight. Cowardly nations do cowardly things, like selling weapons and ships to a potential enemy.

I Guess you have never taken your slippers off and been to France John?... or you have a total lack of tolerance and disrespect for anything outside of your garden wall???

I have been with my French wife and family over here for over 25 years now, can't say that she or anyone else stinks...? so I don't know where you got that sterotypical idea from?... Probably some crap BBC/Fox news program... or maybe the SUN newspaper???

I learned to talk the language and drive on their side of the road as I am sure many other foreigners have done so in your country of residence...

Tell me, show us some CONCRETE proof that France is/was cowardly... ask the families of the resistance members who were deported or executed during WWII... DONT BLAME THE PEOPLE... blame those in charge...

Just to let you know unless you were not aware... the French people were and still more than appreciative and grateful that the allies helped them to free themselves from the Germans back in WWII... But I guess that you don't want to hear that right?

Both my grandfathers died over here fighting to liberate France (and parts of Europe) from the Germans... and they fought with pride... hoping that the future world would not grow up with mentalities such as yours...

Shame on you.... especially after reading your posting history and the distain for foreigners and cultures outside of your own blinkered and sheltered circle...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

who the # are they gunna shoot anyway?

seems like no news.

So the US can arm and fund terrorist organizations and brutal dictators, supplying weapons, chemicals etc and supply and fund the likes of Iraq (to fight Iran) , Gaddaffi (even as we were speaking out against him) Afghanistan (to fight the Soviets ) plus many other examples and that is somehow acceptable but when one sovereign nation does legal and legitimate business with another, somehow the US have a problem?

Complete and utter hypocrisy.

(Will the Russians need special training to drive any French equipment? I was told French military transmissions are 5-speeds. Four in reverse and one in forward (in case the enemy gets behind them) - couldn't resist the old joke, sorry)

You made me grin there...

It was a tender so the boats have been made according to Russian specifics... for use by Russians.

I too was military for quite along time and served alongside French, German, American and other NATO partners... normally we kept to our own methods of transport and didn't use allied material unless specifically trained to do so.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Looks like France has chosen it's side. Let Russia have 'em, they stink , talk funny and drive in circles.

We won't be there to take back their country for them this time when their own troops refuse to fight. Cowardly nations do cowardly things, like selling weapons and ships to a potential enemy.

Yet the only reason the USA exists today cause of French help.........

Id be gratefull to them!

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Looks like France has chosen it's side. Let Russia have 'em, they stink , talk funny and drive in circles.

We won't be there to take back their country for them this time when their own troops refuse to fight. Cowardly nations do cowardly things, like selling weapons and ships to a potential enemy.

The comments of an ignorant bigot.

originally posted by: pheonix358
I'll have to comment my friend.

I wonder how big the wine cellar is on these ships.

P

oOOOO... I wouldn't worry too much about the wine cellars... The Russian marines have enough Vodka that does not need to be stocked at certain temperatures in order to be consumed

Kindest respects

Rodinus

USA should not point fingers while its supporting brutal reguimes like Saudi Arabia with state of the art weapon systems!

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Looks like France has chosen it's side. Let Russia have 'em, they stink , talk funny and drive in circles.

We won't be there to take back their country for them this time when their own troops refuse to fight. Cowardly nations do cowardly things, like selling weapons and ships to a potential enemy.

Hey did you vote in a poll recently? Have you heard about some missing plane?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
Looks like France has chosen it's side. Let Russia have 'em, they stink , talk funny and drive in circles.

We won't be there to take back their country for them this time when their own troops refuse to fight. Cowardly nations do cowardly things, like selling weapons and ships to a potential enemy.

Yet the only reason the USA exists today cause of French help.........

Id be gratefull to them!

Yup...

And I will add a bit of extra info concerning that :

French aid proved vital in the victory of the Americans seeking independence from Britain. The U.S. gained much territory at the 1783 Treaty of Paris, but France – after losing some naval battles – fared poorly there. It did get its revenge and made a new ally and trading partner. However the high debt France accumulated was a major cause of the French Revolution in 1789.

More here : en.wikipedia.org...

Nowhere was the victory at Saratoga more noted than in France, which had been tentative in its efforts to assist the Americans. France's interest in the American fight for independence stemmed from France's humiliating defeat during the Seven Years War at the hands of its ancient enemy, England.

More here : www.ushistory.org...

And for those Brits out there (I fought during the Falklands) :



FRANCE was Britain's greatest ally during the Falklands war, providing secret information to enable MI6 agents to sabotage Exocet missiles which were desperately sought by Argentina, according to Sir John Nott, who was Defence Secretary during the conflict.

In his memoirs he reveals that while President Reagan was pressurising Lady Thatcher to accept a negotiated settlement France helped Britain to win the conflict.

Although Lady Thatcher clashed with President Mitterrand over the future direction of Europe, he immediately came to her aid after Argentine forces invaded the Falklands in April 1982.

"In so many ways Mitterrand and the French were our greatest allies," Sir John says. As soon as the conflict began, France made available to Britain Super-Etendard and Mirage aircraft - which it had supplied to Argentina - so Harrier pilots could train against them.

More here : www.telegraph.co.uk...

COWARDS???... methinks not...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

"

TextRussia signed a 1.58-billion-US dollar deal with a French shipyard in 2011 for two Mistral-class ships, the first one is due for delivery in 2014 and the second in 2015. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think the US may not want Russia to shed some of their USD ..We do know they are getting away from the $ a reply to: Rodinus

hey john....
those 3 red symbols in your crest are French....

were you aware????
bon appetite..... a reply to: JohnTheSmith

a reply to: crazyewok

I think many Americans forget that. I blame the sorry state of our education system really.

Being as I am about two miles from Canada I have a lot of French-Canadian friends and family. Oh the fights we have when the wine/beer/bourbon flows. French pride, German pride, Polish pride , we have it all. However we are Americans first for the most part. We are also old enough to have received a decent education (or learned on our own).

The French saved us more than once and we later saved them more than once. It's amazing how that has come full circle.

American movies have always portrayed the French as cowards. I have quoted "Last of the Mohicans" hundreds of times over the years. The British General summed up American opinion on the French when he said "Do not fear the French, they would rather eat and make love with their faces than fight a war".

Sorry to be OT - I just latch on to all things history and I find it odd that a country that once produced the greatest military minds is now the by-word for cowardice.


EDIT - @JohntheSmith -I would dare you to research to battle at Dien Bien Phu and then use the word coward. I grew up in a military house. My father was the 57th man in the US to earn a Green Beret and my Uncle was the youngest Master Sergeant in American history (he was also a MACV/SOG Commander), both of them had friends in that battle and both of them give only respect and praise to the men there. If American war heroes give men praise I tend to listen, regardless of the topic.

originally posted by: tri-lobe-1
hey john....
those 3 red symbols in your crest are French....

were you aware????
bon appetite..... a reply to: JohnTheSmith

Bang on...

Hail all those who know their history in Heraldry :

www.internationalheraldry.com...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

i guess we'll have to start using the name freedom fries again.