World population of large predators

Hello ATS,

I was watching "Big cats Savannah" today, and heard what I thought were some interesting numbers. I chopped and pasted horribly, forgive me please

Serengeti:
The Serengeti (/ˌsɛrənˈɡɛti/) ecosystem is a geographical region in Africa. It is located in north Tanzania and extends to south-western Kenya between latitudes 1 and 3 degrees south latitude and 34 and 36 degrees east longitude. It spans some 30,000 km2 (12,000 sq mi).

Over 1000 Leopards
Around 600 Cheetahs
Approximately 2500 Lions
"No where else on earth does such a huge density of predators reside on earth". It works for a simple reason.. the herbivores provide plenty of food, with the numbers listed at around 3 million grass eaters to support them.

This was kinda scary for me in a few ways. One we have this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Last I cared to check, we are at 7 Billionish, I don't think anyone knows for sure, but it's generally agreed, we are above 5, and less than 8 billion humans.

Which I think shows 2 things depending on how you look at it, 1 the earth is over populated by humans(which I will be upfront and tell you I don't believe).
2 We are not being good custodians of our planet… Which is kinda a cop out I know, but I believe to be the truth. I think the following is worth noting:

The state of Alaska is the northwestern part of North America and the state of Hawaii is an archipelago in the mid-Pacific. The country also has five populated and nine unpopulated territories in the Pacific and the Caribbean. At 3.79 million square miles (9.83 million km2) in total and with around 317 million people, the United States is the third or fourth-largest country by total area and third largest by population. It is one of the world's most ethnically diverse and multicultural nations, the product of large-scale immigration from many countries.
: I don't know how to take this info, I want to think you guys can talk to me reasonably which has been most of my experience here, but i know there will be some left wall stuff.

I guess Im just wondering if Im the only one worried about all large mammal predator decline, or does that fit your world view.

I love the big cats and hopefully their habitat will be safe from us humans spoiling it any further but to be honest I do fear for every living thing at the moment on earth I think various factors like population climate change and basic stuff like the lack of fresh water in the future make the future pretty scary .

The problem also is like you said the way we manage resources we could feed and give everyone decent healthcare on the planet If we wanted but greed and other human conditions prevent us from doing so look how many people live on less then a two dollars fifty a day...3.1 billion people.

I guess i am trying to say we have to look after ourselves and everyone else before we can look afetr the planet better.

Iam getting on now just hit 40 so I think will will miss the worse but with such an ageing population I think one of the only ways to ease the pressure on the younger generation (these are the future and most should be spent on them) is to have a maximum age :O or acceptance of a living will which allows us to make the choice of when we die.

Anyhow I digress like I said I love the big cats and did you know If a tiger licked you it would have your skin off .
Good thread S&F.

Humans are extremly bad at balancing things( just look at the economy and the gap between rich and poor ).

Thats what is worrying, the human population will continue to grow and expand and the animal population will continue to decline as a direct cause of above.

Is the world over populated? In a sense yes, i think we have crossed the balancing point and the growth of humans is going to explode in the future pushing away the wild animals.

Our solution to this is domestic animal hearding, but it's also on the verge to be ruined by various things like diseases and out watering of the nutritional values of these animals plus it's all about economy.

There are people working on trying to get the wild animal population back to it's glory but they are fighting an uneven battle they can never win.

People like big animals, except when they live near their place and if so they will kill them (mostly) - that and when for example they can earn money with ivory and such - more local people in Africa are getting closer and closer to big wild cats (meaning they get killed more..).
And people from the ''west'' hunting them for trophies (which is also good for the local economy there). Sad thing they may also kill a male lion (often, nicest trophy 2 have!) which may be the head of a group of lions and father of many young lions. When they kill such lion another male lion will take his place and kill all the youngsters. Some females with youngsters may escape this but they no longer part of the group.
So killing 1 big male can have disastrous consequences.

Gene pool is getting thinner and thinner as well - (wild dog) diseases often killing large numbers of lions lately..

Also with global climate change - in the past animals could just move to colder or warmer climates, most places where for example lions are today are parks, with fences.. hard to move there when needed.

So their future looks grim...

Lions and elephants and so on where once widespread on almost every part of the world, so kinda it's still a miracle they are still among us somewhere.. but that may not be long before they no longer exist in the few places / ''in the wild'' where they do now.

I too love the big Cats, however I'd say that there is no shortage of one large predator, out-weighing many of the big cats at times, if that is a measure for "big": Humans 7 billion and counting

Interesting thread.
I don't know if you've seen this or not: persquaremile.com...
There is no over population of earth. In fact, there could be billions more people with plenty of space,-even though I'm not for that for reasons of poverty, etc..

I also wouldn't just include big cats as predators...

originally posted by: Fylgje
Interesting thread.

I don't know if you've seen this or not: persquaremile.com...
There is no over population of earth. In fact, there could be billions more people with plenty of space,-even though I'm not for that for reasons of poverty, etc..

I also wouldn't just include big cats as predators...

It isn't about ''space'' persé which is the problem it's more about ''the footprint'' 1 men needs.
If you live in an apartment you don't take up much space when being there but everything you use/consume does.

It's like Europe which was 1 big forest once and the wood was like oil today, chopping down trees never seen before, forever changing how Europe looked.
Now imagine that we where still using wood as much with the amount of people alive today..

It's like the (few remaining) people found on easter island, with few or no trees left.. no animals left.. just grass, rocks and the ocean basicly, enough space for them but they where doing very badly and probaly would have died out when not discovered by Europian sailers.

What I get from this thread, surprisingly, is who is Humanities predator?

People say Virus an disease, but that applies to the whole spectrum, what is Mans predator?

I think there is something still out there not yet discovered, an Eater of Man, probably antediluvian perhaps, something underground even.

Good thread, A little of post, but with respect to the thread.

S&F

originally posted by: Arnie123
What I get from this thread, surprisingly, is who is Humanities predator?

People say Virus an disease, but that applies to the whole spectrum, what is Mans predator?

I think there is something still out there not yet discovered, an Eater of Man, probably antediluvian perhaps, something underground even.

Good thread, A little of post, but with respect to the thread.

S&F

I think that would be the mosquito. Man I hate them things.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: Arnie123
What I get from this thread, surprisingly, is who is Humanities predator?

People say Virus an disease, but that applies to the whole spectrum, what is Mans predator?

I think there is something still out there not yet discovered, an Eater of Man, probably antediluvian perhaps, something underground even.

Good thread, A little of post, but with respect to the thread.

S&F

I think that would be the mosquito. Man I hate them things.

Someone should make a mosquito watch thread, peoples life might depend on it

I think Australias culling of sharks speaks loud about our invasion of animal territory and our careless treatment of nature, instead of "if you enter the water it's at own risk".

a reply to: Mianeye

Don't ask me why but it brings a smile to my face when I think of man as food when we act arrogantly enough to enter the ocean without concern.

If I am not mistaken man is the largest killer of man with Stalin being number one and mosquitos with the ability to carry many diseases comes in a close second.

The mosquito watch can start right at my front or back door. Here in Virginia they will carry you away feast on your blood and leave you feeling like you're in scratch city located in bump heaven.

a reply to: CalebRight14
Of course we should be concerned about large predators, plus a lot of other animals too as it's generally recognized we are in the middle of a large mass extinction caused by humans.

The Sixth Extinction

The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History is a 2014 nonfiction 319 page book written by Elizabeth Kolbert and published by Henry Holt & Company. The book covers past mass extinctions and demonstrates that the earth and humans are in the midst of a "sixth" mass extinction. She chronicles previous mass species extinction events, as well as specific species extinguished by humans thousands of years ago, centuries ago, such as the great auk; and she includes the accelerated widespread extinction of many species during our present time.

I followed the first part of your post, but you kind of lost me when you started talking about Hawaii, are there large predators in Hawaii? I didn't quite get the connection there to the topic.

Also human population has doubled every so often and the Earth has finite resources so while it's hard to predict the breaking point, there will inevitably be one. When it happens it may be exacerbated by something like widespread drought, food shortages and mass starvation. Actually one reason we are able to feed the population so economically now is because of fossil fuels, but once those run low or out, if we return to less efficient farming methods like farms tended with animals instead of large gasoline powered combines, we may find farming productivity drops so much it's hard to feed everybody.

I read a book about a time portal thing once. All the the old megafauna predators came pouring through because there were so many humans around. A food rich environment. Our modern technology was knocked out by the event so we had to rely on cunning and human ingenuity.

Needless to say, the humans did not do so well to put it kindly. However, the human population did finally level out in a few years after a steep decline. Those who were left were much better adapted. The children being born were stronger and faster. Eventually the predators and humans balanced out.

I think about this scenario once in a while when I am stuck in a maddening crowd at Wal-Mart or something.