The Only Way God is Real.

a reply to: SuperFrog

I said the history taught in schools is "flawed". Not science.

Your tone suggests you're not interested in what anyone has to say. So if you'd rather jump at the "God doesn't exist" story and forget to actually read what I was saying, then fine.

god is like ufo just a word to describe something we don't know. The world proves I don't know it all, therefor god has to be real. and I like it.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

I really dislike how you "science" aficionados talk about "but we have no evidence of God" Well, there's a lot we don't have evidence for but people still believe in.

I'm not a science aficionado, I'm a student of science. There's a difference.

"What I call "having a mind of my own" is crafting a meaning for my own life with my own two hands instead of taking it by spoon with the Ye Olde Bible diet."

What about those who don't hold their beliefs in ID solely on the Bible and religion? Why must belief in God = 100% belief in the Bible? Can't you seemingly "more logical tinkers" make that differentiation between how much you hate the Bible and how someone's belief in something other than atheism might not be 100% bible based?

Two points to make here. One, if you believe in God, then you must believe in his written word, right? Not some of it, not pieces of it, all of it. His written word. If you wouldn't do it with your mother's will, then you should not do it with the written word of God. At least, that's how I understand it. Maybe you guys are more liberal with how you respect the sacred texts of your deity. Which brings me to point two - it is not my understanding that anywhere in the Bible, which is (again, to my understanding) the official guide to God's will and plan, is there any scripture explaining how a disciple may later filter through its passages and pay heed to one chapter but not another.

a reply to: spy66

OOOOooo, so you are beyond understanding to everyone. Claiming certainty is absurd. I have no doubt you believe to know but that is not the same as knowing.

Hi guys,

Wish I had time to comment on the really interesting conversations going on here.

I don't really understand how people referring to God as "Reality Personified" finds such a dichotomy between the science of reality and the bible.

Science says there was nothing before there was something.

The bible says there was God before there was something - a creator before the something - call it what you please - "the spaghetti monster"? God is a much simpler thing to type and explain.

The bible also gives us predictions - prophecies which are currently being fulfilled to a certain degree. These are highly capable of being parallels - as history repeats itself over and over again. However, in this case the analogies used by the individual in question who predicts prior to it's occurence are turning out to be exactly the same as what the bible is stating would be our present (though without a reference to a specific time).

The issue I am referring to is discussed by me in describing the "I, Pet Goat II" and it's meaning in this thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is an issue that is independently verified by a couple of ATSers around page 17 of the discussion.

Wish I had more time... If you wish to peruse my posts, I've given many explanations to many here on ATS about God too.

meant to reply...

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Not really a difference, and...

Wait, so because I don't take the Bible literally I'm not a good Christian?

I was raised a Catholic but do I follow all it's teachings to the word? No. Do I still believe in ID. Yes.

You're getting in to how good of a Christian I am, and that's not really the topic. I'll be the first to admit that if you were to ask a devoted Christian, they'd say I wasn't a great one. But I pray, I believe and I try to be the best person I can be. So sure, I might not be the best Christian around but it doesn't take away my beliefs.

Also, my beliefs may not even be that "Christian" at times. Although I believe in a higher power, I ponder what life is and where we came from etc etc - all those fun things. But when it concerns the Bible... it's a book I respect, it's a book I feel has done a LOT of good (and bad - I'm not a fool) and a book that holds a lot of importance to society.

The more I ponder my existence the closer I come to feeling part of a bigger plan. A bigger "reason" if you will for us to be here. What/Who/Where is God? I really couldn't tell you - But in terms of us... I think we're more than just flesh and bones and I whole heartedly believe in something after the physical. - And not out of fear because there's nothing to lose if all there is after this life is a hole in the ground is there? I believe out of logic and a true faith. and like i've said before, without Faith you TRULY can't understand it.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

Wait, so because I don't take the Bible literally I'm not a good Christian?

Did I say that? I don't believe I posted that.

I was raised a Catholic but do I follow all it's teachings to the word? No. Do I still believe in ID. Yes.

Whatever floats your boat. In a thousand years, no one will care what either of us believed in anyway.

originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
a reply to: spy66

OOOOooo, so you are beyond understanding to everyone. Claiming certainty is absurd. I have no doubt you believe to know but that is not the same as knowing.

Who are you to judge what i know?

You dont speak on my behalf.

a reply to: sensibleSenseless

No prediction in the bible has come true except the one about Israel being remade.


Accepting that as proof is ignoring everything the bible got wrong. So it gets one prediction right out of a thousand... That's not proof of anything.


The creation story and Noah should be looked at as predictions and both are VERY wrong.

a reply to: spy66

Im not judging what you know, Im pointing out the fact that you don't which is not to say that I do. You might be right, but then it would have been luck. Even if you could justify your belief (one of the requirements in making it true) that justification would have to be confirmed. Instead you simply say there is not evidence YET. Therefore it is not knowledge YET.

a reply to: ArtemisE

God created man, after which man created god, this universe is a amalgamation of a variety of beings, its a grand clockwork tower with gears and things that run precisely on precise pathways, you exist in it and it is you and everyone and everything around you is the universe, in there own personal universe, all running in a overall universe, and that is it, and there is nothing more but interpretations and different of it, or you may call it simulations. It has been run for an eternity and it will go on for another eternity, when you die you and everything that is you, your essence, will cease to exist in that particular form, the machine you call the universe or god will go on, and on, etc etc without a care, without even a notice, you and everything that you see around you and everyone around you is all that exists, and only for that particular time in that particular space. And when it is gone, it is gone.

Time however was invented and created by the grays and implemented only in the last few billions of years or so, a bunch of other things like love or hate or pain were invented by other entities or races. And a bunch more things will be creeping up in the programing eventually. But yes its all merely a representation of what you would call your soul, and yes even though many do not like to admit it, its not all cake and butterflies, there is also a whole bunch of crap in that soul. Religion however is just something man invented so as to forget and put a prettier picture on the things that man has invented, created, or can not explain, one of those things being religion itself. So yes religion invented itself out of necessity for religion.

As good an explanation as any.

a reply to: kruphix

Everything is taken on faith and believe that something or other works and there are specific reasons and ways that it works even if they do not know them. I would say pretty much everything around you, nobody would have a clue how it really works down to the electron moving through the screens and precise reasons and ways it does so. If you keep asking but two question why? and how? even that to will eventually break down, I bet that you could ask even the most knowledgeable persons on microwaves how exactly it works and eventually there knowledge will breakdown at some point to were it just becomes faith that it just works. Even in science in the the things they think they know completely about there is that breakdown in knowledge eventually if you keep going on in asking why or how?

Which is why there all going into the quantum level now, merely just another interpretation of thing, solidifying there universe, or you could say quantum locking things that already exist. And even though nobody really know how it all works, it all still works, from that microwave, to that computer, to that tree, and even that potato, or apple seed, or sun or suns, everything just works, so to does god and the universe just works and information on how it all works is genraly applied to it latter, then even much latter it is revised. But between those two, god and the universe, only one of them likes to work in mysterious ways. Or so they tend to say.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

Then your an agnostic. I don't consider that a religion. If your just some one who believes the bible is still morally right and not historically

Whaaaat? Are you guys for serious?

Agnosticism has nothing to do with the interpretation of the Bible. Why are you so focused about this? It's only a protestant thing. The whole Catholic church doesn't believe genesis is literal and accurate.

I'm a pantheist, you should check the definition of agnostic before calling me one.

A pantheist considers the universe as divine and yet most of you keep talking to me like I believe in a personal god. The amount of preconception here is staggering.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
Two points to make here. One, if you believe in God, then you must believe in his written word, right? Not some of it, not pieces of it, all of it. His written word.

You guys are so dense. It has been repeated for pages that belief in the Bible as the literal word of god is a modern protestant invention and yet you keep using this as some kind of universal argument against god.


You are so WASP centered you can't even see you are generalizing the whole world based on your idea of an American bible thumper.

FFS enough with the bible argument the bible has nothing to do with belief in a divinity. It's a book. Plus as a reminder there are tons of other faiths and spiritualities.

Can you get this at least once?

One reason to show Darwin's evolution is not true. You would have to believe Mary, Our Lord's mother is descendent from the apes!

Give God credit, He can keep His systems straight, evolution happens only within a system, there is no animal to
human evolution.

Humans have a part of God in them, their eternal soul.

originally posted by: colbe
You would have to believe Mary, Our Lord's mother is descendent from the apes!

There is nothing in traditional Christian faith that would make this hypothesis heretical.

Unless you believe the story of Adam and Eve, the Jewish creation myth, is a literal story and thus you belong the the select few who are labeled Christian fundamentalists.

This what JPII said and it wasn't even a new position for the Church

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.... Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

Sorry if you still think creation myths are literal stories I guess? Especially since the Jews borrowed so much from Babylon for their own mythology, it wasn't even inspired by their Yahweh.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

You are so WASP centered you can't even see you are generalizing the whole world based on your idea of an American bible thumper.

FFS enough with the bible argument the bible has nothing to do with belief in a divinity. It's a book. Plus as a reminder there are tons of other faiths and spiritualities.

Can you get this at least once?

No. They don't (or won't) ever get it.

It's because they're not motivated by the search for truth or the development of wisdom, but by fear and spite. They don't comprehend something that gives others meaning in their lives, so they viciously attack it to protect and elevate the ego.

In Western society, the easiest target and most readily available hate fodder is Christianity. So that's all they focus on. If they were truly interested in disproving the existence of God, they would (like any good scientist) recognize the necessity of expanding their inquiry to include other religions.

Bottom line is they just want to piss Christians off. I don't think they care much if it makes any sense.

originally posted by: NthOther
Bottom line is they just want to piss Christians off. I don't think they care much if it makes any sense.

I'm sure it's that. I too would be pissed if I had to live with Bible-thumpers though. They make the American society regress by teaching creationism and stuff like that.

It's still really a pity that so much posters here talk like the situation in the Bible belt is a correct representation of belief in god worldwide. Tells a lot about their knowledge of this world past their borders.

originally posted by: SpaceGoatFarts

originally posted by: colbe
You would have to believe Mary, Our Lord's mother is descendent from the apes!

There is nothing in traditional Christian faith that would make this hypothesis heretical.

Unless you believe the story of Adam and Eve, the Jewish creation myth, is a literal story and thus you belong the the select few who are labeled Christian fundamentalists.

This what JPII said and it wasn't even a new position for the Church

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.... Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

Sorry if you still think creation myths are literal stories I guess? Especially since the Jews borrowed so much from Babylon for their own mythology, it wasn't even inspired by their Yahweh.

Hi,

Your last statement, is an anti-Catholic remark. Keep an open mind for the time ahead. God bless you.

Creation is God's doing, I don't care about the time frame. He does not evolve humanity from the animals. Catholicism accepts a certain kind of evolution, I will have to look it up, I forgot the name. The faith does not accept Darwinism.

Catholicism has no problem with microevolution (changes within a "kind" over time), the Catholic Church is opposed to macroevolution (a population belonging to one "kind" changing into a new "kind").

Get it, makes sense. We have an eternal soul.