The Terrible Fear of Paying the Poor Too Much

originally posted by: DerbyGawker

lol, no we aren't. Not to sidetrack but lol, no.

Oh, so you can't move from one state to another?
Interesting. Did the unicorn or the elf tell you this.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker
You have to have a SSN to acquire a job,

Yes, thanks for pointing this out. And that means what???? If you don't have that, is it because you are here illegally?

originally posted by: DerbyGawker
to pay for the move.

Yes, you paying for this is a given.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker
If you do it yourself, you need a license. Nothing about that is 'freedom'.

Really??? You need a license to move stuff.
So, here is your problem. You think "Freedom" means stuff is free.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker

Yeah, just cross some artificial boundary into another nation. Since nations are so willing to accept mass immigration. /sarcasm

Not my problem.
Don't have jobs, or food in your area here in the US, move.

originally posted by: DerbyGawker
And to even use Wal-Mart as an example when it's public knowledge they do everything within their power to have individuals work hours off the clock to avoid minimum wage laws, actively encourage associates to receive welfare... lol, just lol.

That is cute.

Local pay is what I stated it is.

originally posted by: drock905

I'd like to know where you live because in the NYC metro area starting pay for both companies hovers around 8--8.50. Overnight crew is around 9. Don't forget the average raise is around 10 cents if you even get one.

Mountain West area.
Sounds like pay sucks in NY. Maybe you should look to move from there to a place that doesn't have sucky pay.

originally posted by: drock905
The problem is that these hugely successful and profitable corporations that employ millions of Americans pay so little that it forces their employees to seek government assistance just to feed themselves.

Nooooo.
The problem is people that stay in NYC metro area, work a $9hr job and complain that they get paid little.
It is your choice to stay there. No one should be offsetting your choice.

Poverty in America...Living Wage Calculator

If you want to see what a living wage really is around the country.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Interesting! And the chart is from nearly FOUR years ago!!!

My profession is included on the list; and yet, just yesterday I was offered a job in my field for more than $3 LESS than the chart said for my state
Weird!

But very interesting, and thanks very much for providing the link.

I have heard it said that getting politicians to favor the lower, middle class with various policies is theft from others.

If that is the case.

Then it is also theft when our government actually caters to the very rich creating policies beneficial to them via overseas and over the border Trade Pacts that is detrimental the lower and middle class.

Politicians should be creating policies beneficial to the whole nation but when they are up for sale the highest bidder, and exist in a revolving door between Big Corporations and Banks, it is blatantly clear who they create these policies for.

It is supposed to be a government, based on the constitution of for the people, by the people and to the people.

Perhaps the elite class would like to get rid of our constitution or amend it with for the CEO's and Shareholders because for the last 30 years, that is who the policies have been catered to.

Look at the growth of Wall Street and the slow collapse of Main Street to see where their priorities lie. It is certainly not with the nation, unless of course they need to drum up support to get some peasants to fight wars for them.

a reply to: jacobe001

You hit the nail on the head with that.

As long as corporations can donate untold sums to reelection campaigns and are protected as personal entities to do so then the middle class will not have a voice.

All the politicians care about is staying in power they will do just enough to get the votes but the money spent on re-election campaigns comes from corporate donors and once the elections are over that is who the politicians are indebted to.

I don't see the trend changing until corporate personhood is challenged and beaten. Corporations are not people they do not hold any allegiance to any flag they are not patriotic they are only concerned with dollar signs they are only beholden to their shareholders. But for some reason the very people (middle and lower class) have been suckered or brainwashed for the most part into thinking that the ruling in their favor of corporations are people somehow benefits the country.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: diggindirt

I am now seriously doubting a good bit of what you've posted about being a business owner if you consider a spread-sheet to be "stupid"---or perhaps I should say I doubt that you are a successful business owner.

I never said I was a 'business owner'. I have never been, and don't want to be.

I was a supervisor with 75 people who reported to me, and who from time to time needed to have a lighter workload in order to sustain their health. On one occasion, a senior worker came in with a doctor's note and asked if she could be switched to a lighter-duty situation for a few weeks; and the 'owners/managers/corporate bigwigs' said 'no'. They didn't give a crap that she might lose her baby. She had been there for nearly 15 years. Never missed a day.

She even had someone else on staff (in very good standing) who was willing to help her after finishing her (the friend's) own 'workload.' But still, "Corporate" said "NO."

That sucks. And yes, it was all about fractions of a percent on the STUPID spread-sheet.

Because, you know, the almighty DOLLAR; the PROFIT is far, far more important than whether this employee, a dedicated hard-working long-time employee might lose her baby.

*shakes head and rolls eyes*

You can shake your head and roll your eyes till your eyes fall out but if you were the woman's supervisor and couldn't make the case for her to your boss, you failed her.
As hard as it may be for you to hear, businesses run on PROFIT---and for you to refer to a tool of business, a spread sheet, as "STUPID" is at best a juvenile response. That's like calling a calculator "stupid" when it shows you've run your checking account into the red. You can blame the spreed sheet as long as you like but its not going to change anything. If you had a valued employee and yet couldn't make the case for her value, you failed that employee and your employer because both lost something valuable.

a reply to: diggindirt

were the woman's supervisor and couldn't make the case for her to your boss, you failed her.

I DID make the case. They insisted on having the doctor make a SECOND note...she had already filed one that said she was high-risk. When it came to it, I was expected to 'interpret' what HR and mgmt said (because they did not speak the language of the worker, and I did). I did the interpretation, word for word, but it was clear from my attitude that I disagreed. I was written up the next day.

You don't seem to understand that this woman's life, and the life of her unborn baby, were at stake. All she asked for was that her friend could help her finish her room quota after the friend finished her own load. They said, "NO."

They said, "She can do fewer rooms, but she has to do them in the same time as when she was able and healthy - and then GO HOME WITHOUT PAY." Which was technically penalizing her for being temporarily slowed down by a short-term problem.

A month eariler, they had allowed a pregnant worker (of less seniority) to go down to laundry to fold towels during her fragile period...instead of doing her full quota of rooms....it was no problem;

but this woman, a respected, well-established employee, they told: no - recently 'policy' from on high had "changed" - and there was no more leeway for stressed/injured people to have a lesser work load.

You know what? You weren't there. I did not 'fail her.' The bosses failed her. And I was driven out for protesting it.

So....
whatever.
I failed her? NO. "Corporate" failed her. All because of their stupid spread sheet missing 0.01% in PROFITS.
Sickening.

a reply to: diggindirt


I have seen the same arguments again and again where it is stated business run strictly on the profit they make for the Owner, CEO's and its Shareholders. That is all that matters! Ethics and Morality do not even enter the equation. Moving production or business to a Communist, Socialist, or country with a Dictator matters not one iota as long as it is not this one where it would have an impact on their profits. I have seen arguments that if the government stepped in to put a stop to these trade agreements, that it would be infringing on the rights of others to do business with who they wish.

To that end, our oligarchy owned government has bent over backwards to the wishes of the banking and corporate lobbyist to bring this to fruition at the expense to the citizens of this country.

Having said that, I asked this in another thread and none of the profits at all cost people addressed it.

If I open up a business in arms manufacturing and sold those weapons to Iraqi's and Afghans fighting American Troops, using the above logic, I am not in the business to care about the impacts on my fellow American's or the morality involved. Furthermore, if the government interferes, they are infringing on my freedoms on who I wish to do business with if we follow the above logic that I see expressed again and again.

Most would find the above abhorrent because they realize we need a government or organization consisting of many citizens to put the boot down on anyone that would put a price for profit over the well being of the citizens of this country.

I propose the lobbyists and head CEO's that were all for cheap Chinese Labor and profits should go live in the most polluted city there near the most polluted river so they can see what they support. Same for Honduras and many other third world countries.

Pack your bags and get the Hell out of this country and take your lobbyists stooges with you.

a reply to: macman

Let's just run through your rebuttals in order.

1. You changed the conditions of the argument. You said "free" to move, I explained how you are not "free" to move. Being capable of moving and being free to do so are two separate matters. Even slaves were allowed to travel with permission from the master.

2. Requiring one to obtain a SSN violates the notion of freedom of association, ergo it tramples upon your freedom. There is no law that states you must obtain one therefor the requirement to have one in order to gain employment is antithetical to a free people and only exists out of corporate ignorance.

3. You're obviously unaware of the history of Americans during the dust bowl who literally packed up what few belongings they had into their automobiles, and travelled to another state without a license, settled and built their own homes by hand without any government involvement or licensing schemes. That is freedom.

4. No, you're just being absurd. Freedom means you don't need government interference to engage in lawful activity. A license is permission from the government to engage in legal activity. Therefor you are not free to travel to another state, you need the governments permission to do so yourself.

5. What a rather weak argument. If you can't be bothered to defend your ill-conceived assertions then don't bother wasting our time with your writing of them. You then change the argument to complete your rebuttal. This is called a straw-man and makes your premise look weak.

6. This is a nonsensical response that benefits no one.

I can now clearly see you just like to spew ignorant hatred with irrational statements and there is no point in further acknowledging you.

a reply to: Aazadan

Azadan, in response to you I must tell you that I read about the mass sterilization hidden in vaccines given to women of Brazil in India years ago. Bill Gates states in a Ted conference that he prefers vaccines for zero population growth. What kind of vaccine provides zero population growth? Yes, that's right, it would be a vaccine with a sterilant in it. You can google it if you like. Gates probably thinks he is altruistic in his quest to depopulate. But evil can lurk in people even while they have the mask of altruism.

smirkingchimp.com...

mazeinamirror.blogspot.com...

So if you want to beat me up on this, have at it, but do your research first or you may look ridiculous when I post my own findings. I don't know about you, but stealth sterilization sounds a bit Draconian to me.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Gates also interestingly believes that vaccines are a great way to depopulate through sterilization of third world people unawares

Since I know that this statement is complete BS on your part which you can't back up it makes me think the rest of your claims have also been pulled out of your neither regions.

Grimp, please see my response to the other guy who responded to you. Gates did most certainly say he loves vaccines for zero population Growth at a Ted conference. Please see my explanation as to what that could possibly entail. See for yourself what Gates said, and then read the articles I posted about mass sterilization and sterilants used in vaccines.
www.youtube.com...

You see I had something to back up my post.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You must not have seen my other post but as I said I am well aware of what Gates had to say. What he actually said not what you claim he said even if you are coupling that to some pseudo claims and fear mongering about vaccines.

Debunking Denialism

Defending science against the forces of irrationality.

a reply to: macman

the majority of Americans working a full time job making 10000 a year don't have the ability just to pack up And move. How about insanely profitable companies pay their employees a living wage? The exploitation of the American poor is a huge problem In this country and if you don't see that as a problem you're living in a fantasy world.

a reply to: drock905 And it's exactly the people living in this fantasy world that are propping up the plan in keeping people divided and bickering over trivial things so they don't actually unite and do something about this. Again, I say, we have the power.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

all of that is horrible and blows the mind. but u know whats even worse and blows my mind even more? that us, the MAJORITY just sit around and take it, sure we'll talk about it and get pissed but we won't do ANYTHING.

i quit walmart after a year and a half cause i figured i could make that 40 bucks a day without them and i have been. what have u guys done? (not talking to the people with kids) and i'm not trying to piss anybody off but really guys? we can talk about this allllllllll year but what will it do, nothing.

Wow, hey, did you guys see that this thread is going to be a topic on tonight's ATS Live show?
I think it will be interesting...
I hope.

I had no idea. Didn't they used to make a post saying "this thread has been chosen"? Oh well.

It's been chosen!
I hope I can stay up late enough - but in any case, I'll listen to the archive/podcast later.

Are any of you intending to call in about it??

a reply to: npo902

It is horrible.

And you know what? I'd LOVE to move - I have neighbors from hell who moved in about four years ago...
they make my life a nightmare, because they trigger my husband's PTSD with their foul language, noise, 24/7 comings and goings, gunfire, instability, and ghetto behavior.

But, with the economy the way it is, my house has lost value, and now I'm just barely holding equity (I did have quite a lot back in 2007). What can we do???

I want out of here...love the house, loved the neighborhood and area; but all the foreclosed homes are being snapped up by lowlifes who don't know how to act in a decent, quiet neighborhood.

It's absolutely true that families can't just "up and move" - we're trapped. It's awful, and was NOT the way it was supposed to work.


Anyone have advice on how to get rid of drug-dealing, loud, violent, foul-mouthed, psychotic, child-abusing, unemployed 'neighbors' and their 'hangers on'?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Grimp which part of Bill Gates saying out loud in a Ted conference he really likes vaccines to combat overpopulation DONT you get? I have already addressed this and you are still having a problem with it. The only contention you could possibly have is Gates' motive. And since he is a member of the Club of Rome, I am not giving him my trust in his philanthropic wisdom. I have already shown his involvement with the UN on shoving more vaccines in front of third world nations. The depopulation theory is old news really and I am surprised that you are not versed in it. Rockefellers were doing it when they supported Margaret Sanger aka American Birth Control League aka Planned Parenthood. I think you are really missing a big piece of the puzzle here, for whatever reason you do not wish to see it. If you are not seeing what I presented about Gates and his vaccine program, how will you understand any of what is going on with Agenda 21? How will you understand half of what the Elites have been doing to any of us? How will you understand the purpose of GMO or chem trails or anything else they have devised? How will you understand that the purpose of wars is not only profit but depopulation?
Are you deliberately not looking at the very statements made by Agenda 21 proponents that they would love to whittle away all but about 500 million people worldwide? All that sustainability stuff is about limiting resources because the Elites want all the control and they want it all for themselves.
The Annunaki let their creation get out of control....

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Your neighbors are shooting guns at random times? My goodness that would bother me too.