Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy apologizes for race remarks

a reply to: uncommitted

One of these days, our nation has to have the open and uncomfy public debate about how we are allowed to describe each other. Negro is a term of literal description. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is a word derived from that one which forms one of the ugliest racial slurs our society has to throw...but it's derived from it. It isn't the same reference by any stretch.

It's something of a pet peeve of mine and has been for quite some time. Really, since I saw a black kid assert himself in demanding he NOT be addressed as "African American" again. It wasn't said kindly by the time it came to that, but the logic damn sure carried true. It seems he was from the Caribbean, not Africa...and as we know by history, not every person with high pigment levels comes from Africa..so what IS the proper term?

Perhaps Negro really is too tied to ugly periods in the past and perhaps it is too mired in hate to ever serve as the straight descriptive to show one group distinct from another, which it was as Bundy grew up to know life. However, the fact modern people see it as a racist slur by NO means makes it one to the people who grew up and lived most of their lives with it being no more a slur than calling me Caucasian.

In fact....If I'm not terribly mistaken.. "Negro and Negroid" terms are still used in medical and forensics as the terms best describing the physical traits to distinguish one racial group from another.

Racism can sometimes be as much limited to the observer defining it as the speaker sharing it...or not, in my view.

a reply to: SaturnFX

heh, political correctness is just cowardice and deception created by a society that is weak minded and paranoid, that can't handle confrontation or deviance of the norms of what the majority thinks or feels.

such a society is broken and will destroy itself in a terribly violent way if given enough time.

it might "work" for now but cracks have already formed and one day the people on the divide will clash and many will die. that's what happens when pressure has no way to be released, it's a perfect society for waging war with and to exploit by corporations.

Nice thread Buster...

S&F Nice to see there is some middle ground.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: uncommitted

One of these days, our nation has to have the open and uncomfy public debate about how we are allowed to describe each other. Negro is a term of literal description. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is a word derived from that one which forms one of the ugliest racial slurs our society has to throw...but it's derived from it. It isn't the same reference by any stretch.

It's something of a pet peeve of mine and has been for quite some time. Really, since I saw a black kid assert himself in demanding he NOT be addressed as "African American" again. It wasn't said kindly by the time it came to that, but the logic damn sure carried true. It seems he was from the Caribbean, not Africa...and as we know by history, not every person with high pigment levels comes from Africa..so what IS the proper term?

Perhaps Negro really is too tied to ugly periods in the past and perhaps it is too mired in hate to ever serve as the straight descriptive to show one group distinct from another, which it was as Bundy grew up to know life. However, the fact modern people see it as a racist slur by NO means makes it one to the people who grew up and lived most of their lives with it being no more a slur than calling me Caucasian.

In fact....If I'm not terribly mistaken.. "Negro and Negroid" terms are still used in medical and forensics as the terms best describing the physical traits to distinguish one racial group from another.

Racism can sometimes be as much limited to the observer defining it as the speaker sharing it...or not, in my view.

Using the term "What I know about the Negro" comes across as ridiculously, oh, I don't know, redneck, as if the speaker believes themselves somehow superior to people of a different colour. Oh, wait, that's exactly how he comes across. If you read the comments in the link I added he implies that people act in a particular way because of their colour, and no other reason - if you like it or not, that is indeed racism. Because the guy is an old rootin tootin redneck good ole boy white bloke doesn't make it any more justifiable really does it? dying breed, hopefully.

originally posted by: uncommitted
So you don't think starting a comment with "I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro," is in anyway racist?

what if...and i know this might come as a shocker, but what if his statement DIDN'T start with "i want to tell you one more thing i know about the negro"?

what if...again, maybe a shocker, the clip was edited in such a way as to remove the context, and make him APPEAR to be making disparaging remarks about blacks and mexicans?

could it possibly be that the media lied, and you didn't bother to fact check it, before jumping on the bash bundy bandwagon?

naw....couldn't be...

originally posted by: uncommitted
Using the term "What I know about the Negro" comes across as ridiculously, oh, I don't know, redneck, as if the speaker believes themselves somehow superior to people of a different colour. Oh, wait, that's exactly how he comes across. If you read the comments in the link I added he implies that people act in a particular way because of their colour, and no other reason - if you like it or not, that is indeed racism. Because the guy is an old rootin tootin redneck good ole boy white bloke doesn't make it any more justifiable really does it? dying breed, hopefully.

firstly, you're not from here, so i wouldn't expect you to actually understand what a "redneck" is, anymore than you would expect me to understand football hooligans...i'd appreciate it if you could stop with the stereotypes...it's a bit offensive.

secondly, no, it's not "racism"...blacks and mexicans aren't from another planet, they are just as human as us, and therefore, are not members of a different "race"

and lastly, again, you really should be fact checking, instead of taking the MSM at their word..

a reply to: uncommitted

I'll be fair to say that to folks from some parts of the country, or in many cases, just urban vs. rural? What he said can sound racist, because the term has come to be tied directly to it's better known and hateful version.

I see your side from my upbringing in Southern California. Calling someone a Negro there would probably end with gunshots or a very severe act of not-so-random violence. Then again, the culture is such that the term wouldn't be used in anything but a mean spirited way on the street or between strangers.

I see the side of the term NOT being racist from the other half of my life living in Missouri. I mean no disrespect to Missouri, and those who live here will know that. However, the use of the term he used is the least of what I've heard from ignorant people here. By ignorant, I literally mean for lack of a full education, from a time in this nation where High School wasn't necessarily a given to have gone through and completed everywhere. (as if it is now).

What is a normal term to some is seen radically different by others. No doubt. A few terms are blurry that way, anyway.

Was he mean spirited? It doesn't seem so...so that's where I come from on it.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000



I just wanted to point this out...

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: uncommitted

One of these days, our nation has to have the open and uncomfy public debate about how we are allowed to describe each other. Negro is a term of literal description. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is a word derived from that one which forms one of the ugliest racial slurs our society has to throw...but it's derived from it. It isn't the same reference by any stretch.

It's something of a pet peeve of mine and has been for quite some time. Really, since I saw a black kid assert himself in demanding he NOT be addressed as "African American" again. It wasn't said kindly by the time it came to that, but the logic damn sure carried true. It seems he was from the Caribbean, not Africa...and as we know by history, not every person with high pigment levels comes from Africa..so what IS the proper term?

Perhaps Negro really is too tied to ugly periods in the past and perhaps it is too mired in hate to ever serve as the straight descriptive to show one group distinct from another, which it was as Bundy grew up to know life. However, the fact modern people see it as a racist slur by NO means makes it one to the people who grew up and lived most of their lives with it being no more a slur than calling me Caucasian.

In fact....If I'm not terribly mistaken.. "Negro and Negroid" terms are still used in medical and forensics as the terms best describing the physical traits to distinguish one racial group from another.

Racism can sometimes be as much limited to the observer defining it as the speaker sharing it...or not, in my view.

Negro, African American, black, colored, they are all words that categorize a pigment color of skin so which one is PC this week? The one that gets me is African American, what the hell is that? Does that mean I am an Irish/English American? What's wrong with just being American? Bundy saying Negro didn't seem like a big deal, the issue was relating the word with slavery and picking cotton. I am glad Bundy apologized for his choice of words but I do not think there was malice or ill intent behind the words, he was trying to explain that many blacks are now slaves to government dependence, he should have mentioned many whites are also. I guess if the BLM puts him out of business us taxpayers may have to pay him welfare, is that justice or adding to the publics burden? At least now he has a good attorney instead of representing himself in court again.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: uncommitted
Using the term "What I know about the Negro" comes across as ridiculously, oh, I don't know, redneck, as if the speaker believes themselves somehow superior to people of a different colour. Oh, wait, that's exactly how he comes across. If you read the comments in the link I added he implies that people act in a particular way because of their colour, and no other reason - if you like it or not, that is indeed racism. Because the guy is an old rootin tootin redneck good ole boy white bloke doesn't make it any more justifiable really does it? dying breed, hopefully.

firstly, you're not from here, so i wouldn't expect you to actually understand what a "redneck" is, anymore than you would expect me to understand football hooligans...i'd appreciate it if you could stop with the stereotypes...it's a bit offensive.

secondly, no, it's not "racism"...blacks and mexicans aren't from another planet, they are just as human as us, and therefore, are not members of a different "race"

and lastly, again, you really should be fact checking, instead of taking the MSM at their word..

Not sure about the football analogy, you seem to be assuming no sports related gang violence takes place in America - have you checked up on that?

Are you suggesting that in this particular instance he didn't make the comments the BBC (in the link I used) reported and the BBC out and out invented them? As for stereotypes being offensive - that's a little bit of a strange comment to make when you are responding and seem to be agreeing with someone who is making sweeping judgements on people based on the colour of their skin - isn't that extreme stereotyping and why are you therefore not against that?

originally posted by: uncommitted
Not sure about the football analogy, you seem to be assuming no sports related gang violence takes place in America - have you checked up on that?

i don't need to, as it doesn't matter.

rednecks are a commonly recognized item in american culture, just like football hooligans are in yours.

Are you suggesting that in this particular instance he didn't make the comments the BBC (in the link I used) reported and the BBC out and out invented them?

more or less, yes.

the BBC is parroting what he NYT put in it's article....in fact, this BBC piece is even MORE pathetic, as it is an article about an article...yo dawg, i heard you like articles... lol

the NYT hit piece was a fine example of manipulation through deliberate selective misquoting, out of context, to give the desired appearance...which, in this case, is that the target of the hit piece is an ignorant, slack-jawed, mouth-breathing, bigoted yokel....character assassination at it's finest.

As for stereotypes being offensive - that's a little bit of a strange comment to make when you are responding and seem to be agreeing with someone who is making sweeping judgements on people based on the colour of their skin - isn't that extreme stereotyping and why are you therefore not against that?

again, had you bothered to fact check the BBC article, or the NYT article it was about, the above-quoted block of text would not even exist, because it would be painfully obvious what game the MSM is playing..

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: uncommitted
Not sure about the football analogy, you seem to be assuming no sports related gang violence takes place in America - have you checked up on that?

i don't need to, as it doesn't matter.

rednecks are a commonly recognized item in american culture, just like football hooligans are in yours.

Are you suggesting that in this particular instance he didn't make the comments the BBC (in the link I used) reported and the BBC out and out invented them?

more or less, yes.

the BBC is parroting what he NYT put in it's article....in fact, this BBC piece is even MORE pathetic, as it is an article about an article...yo dawg, i heard you like articles... lol

the NYT hit piece was a fine example of manipulation through deliberate selective misquoting, out of context, to give the desired appearance...which, in this case, is that the target of the hit piece is an ignorant, slack-jawed, mouth-breathing, bigoted yokel....character assassination at it's finest.

As for stereotypes being offensive - that's a little bit of a strange comment to make when you are responding and seem to be agreeing with someone who is making sweeping judgements on people based on the colour of their skin - isn't that extreme stereotyping and why are you therefore not against that?

again, had you bothered to fact check the BBC article, or the NYT article it was about, the above-quoted block of text would not even exist, because it would be painfully obvious what game the MSM is playing..

Well, I have to assume you were there in heard the statement verbatim as you seem particularly sure what has been reported is lies - strange that hasn't been retracted by his legal representation.

For your last comment, the Statement the man made about what he knows about the negro. You are suggesting he didn't say it (although not sure even he has denied it). He is commenting therefore about people based on their skin colour which is stereotyping.

a reply to: buster2010

Well, I guess I kind of agree with you.

He did said he was sorry. I get that. Is he a racist??? Not really sure. Do I care? Not really either.
His stance has nothing to do with race or racism. The Govt is too large and too bloated, and is grabbing for more control every day.

What he said, I believe, has some racist wording, but there is truth, if you view it as this:
"Is the black community better off now, with the Govt giving them stuff with nothing to do? Or were they better off, as a family unit, when work was performed". Now, granted the work was slave work, and they didn't have rights. But, there seems to be a better family unit during that period. Remove the slave aspect, and you have a family that worked together, spent time with each other and seemed to help each other.

Now, regardless of what color you are, people are being paid to do nothing.

There is no pride in getting stuff for free. It becomes expected, and is taken for granted after a short period of time.

There is pride in working for what you have. Yes, it is hard, but if it were easy, everyone would do it.

So, is Cliven Bundy a racist???? Maybe, to the extent of the time period he grew up in.

Do I see him going all Bull Conor on people? No.

originally posted by: uncommitted
Well, I have to assume you were there in heard the statement verbatim as you seem particularly sure what has been reported is lies - strange that hasn't been retracted by his legal representation.

purposeful editing of a statement, to make it's content and intent appear different from it's original version, and then presenting that (for all intents and purposes) fiction, as the complete, unabridged statement, IS a lie.....

so yes, they lied....it's not all of what he said, it was a PIECE of it, presented out of context, to produce the appearance of malicious bigotry...it's character assassination...

is it really so hard to load up a search engine, and take the 10 seconds it would take to find the WHOLE video? you're really gonna waste time with the "you weren't there" argument?

For your last comment, the Statement the man made about what he knows about the negro. You are suggesting he didn't say it (although not sure even he has denied it). He is commenting therefore about people based on their skin colour which is stereotyping.

would it have been less offensive if he'd said "black people"?

did he say anything that was untrue?

a lot of black people(and white people, and hispanic people, etc) sit on porches, in government housing, because they're on welfare, and whatnot....and if you look at prison stats, it's mostly black men...and there are a lot of abortions of black babies....he's not saying this is true because black people are awful, he's saying it's true because of the system people are forced to live in these days....i've said a few times...if you listen to his ENTIRE statement, instead of the cherry-picked snippet the media is using to make him sound like a bigot, you see that it's a social commentary on how the government fooled black people into accepting one form of slavery, under the guise of liberating them from another...

anyway, you don't seem to be denying ignorance....you seem to be peddling the same knee-jerk appeal to emotion nonsense, as the others on the bandwagon....

i mean, i shoudln't hafta be putting dictionary definitions in (what feels like) every other post, because people don't know what words mean...

Ne·gro [nee-groh]

noun, plural Ne·groes.

1. Anthropology . (no longer in technical use) a member of the peoples traditionally classified as the Negro race, especially those who originate in sub-Saharan Africa.

2. Older Use: Often Offensive. a black person.

adjective
3. Anthropology . (no longer in technical use) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, generally marked by brown to black skin pigmentation, dark eyes, and tightly curled hair and including especially the indigenous peoples of Africa south of the Sahara.

4. being a member of the black peoples of humankind, especially those who originate in sub-Saharan Africa.
--------------

1. a member of any of the dark-skinned indigenous peoples of Africa and their descendants elsewhere

— adj
2. relating to or characteristic of Negroes

[C16: from Spanish or Portuguese: black, from Latin niger black]

negro is an outdated term, for sure...but in it's day, it was the same as today's "white" "latino" "asian", etc

I've had a quick look and I can't see this video posted. I have watched it twice now. It really explained where the Bundy mindset came from for me, and explained very clearly too why they are holding out against your Federal Government.

It will clear up if not explain a lot of the issues raised in this thread. Please take some time to watch it, or even just listen to it.



Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Good video.

Here's a local Las Vegas article from last week.

It goes over some of the "Bundy" family....

An abbreviated look at rancher Cliven Bundy's family history

Keep in mind that Mesquite, NV is only a few miles from Bunkerville, NV.

a reply to: xuenchen

I take it you have watched it before then? I only posted it 10 minutes ago!



Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Yes, somebody posted that on another thread.

That's how I posted my comment so soon.

a reply to: angelchemuel

lol, i LOVE how people try to paint the bundy family as dumb hicks....i think this video shows such is not the case...

this guy is smarter than most people i've encountered, or seen talking online....