Is this proof US mercenaries are in Ukraine?

reply to post by pookle

if you commit a crime in a country, you are tried in THAT country, not your own.

Actually under international law you can be repatriated to your home State to face crimes you have committed on foreign soil

It all depends on the crime and the circumstances, but it can be done.

Diplomatic representation is done via the Consulates in the country you commit a crime, YOU CANNOT USE THEM to EVADE the LAW or as an excuse to break laws in those countries. I know; i have dealt with them before.

I never said anything about using them to evade the law only to ensure that the fundamental human rights of the detainee are met. This video quite clearly shows a detainee being beaten by enemy combatants.

He is there for a PRIVATE COMPANY

Again, while that is highly probable he could be working for some other group.

he has no backing from his own country under diplomatic immunity or war,

Actually this is quite complex after the events of Iraq and Afghanistan where PMC's where used and increasingly found themselves undertaking the roles of the "green army" such as defending military instillation's. Some have tried to argue that they should be afforded the same rights as a solider under Article four. However if they are not then given these rights then they would fall under Article 3 which deals with the treatment of civilians rather than combatants.

That does not take into account any other extradition treaties or other agreements under international law.

if he wants diplomatic representation, he goes through his embassy like you or I would do, but he still has to get tried under the laws of that country, just as you or I would be.

Again that is not always the case, particularly in times of conflict.

reply to post by matafuchs

For some servicemen who come home to no job this is all they have. To privatize.

And for others they join mafia and run drugs, guns and prostitutes, become contract killers or hold up banks and convenience shops.

Just because there's not a lot going on the job front, doesn't excuse becoming a murderer for hire mate, or any of the other crap 'some' of them turn to.

A criminal is a criminal, lack of a good job isn't an excuse when there are tens of thousands who honourably serve their country, leave the services and don't take the easy money with no questions asked.

It's a CIA op...they hire mercs through BW to go in and create the uprisings, fire at both sides and generally stir the pot, the CIA have plausible deniability when the mercs are caught like this bloke has been, Uncle Sam has nice clean hands and leaves no fingerprints on the bodies.

Anyone who's been following this crap in Ukraine knows the score by now, and if they don't they've not been paying attention.

Either way, the other BW mercs really ought to be getting their crap together and arranging a hasty extraction...this guy will probably be singing his head off before long, and then there'll be dozens just like him rounded up and the CIA will be up the diplomatic creek without a paddle.
 

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by pookle

 

if you commit a crime in a country, you are tried in THAT country, not your own.

Actually under international law you can be repatriated to your home State to face crimes you have committed on foreign soil

It all depends on the crime and the circumstances, but it can be done.

Diplomatic representation is done via the Consulates in the country you commit a crime, YOU CANNOT USE THEM to EVADE the LAW or as an excuse to break laws in those countries. I know; i have dealt with them before.

I never said anything about using them to evade the law only to ensure that the fundamental human rights of the detainee are met. This video quite clearly shows a detainee being beaten by enemy combatants.

He is there for a PRIVATE COMPANY

Again, while that is highly probable he could be working for some other group.

he has no backing from his own country under diplomatic immunity or war,

Actually this is quite complex after the events of Iraq and Afghanistan where PMC's where used and increasingly found themselves undertaking the roles of the "green army" such as defending military instillation's. Some have tried to argue that they should be afforded the same rights as a solider under Article four. However if they are not then given these rights then they would fall under Article 3 which deals with the treatment of civilians rather than combatants.

That does not take into account any other extradition treaties or other agreements under international law.

if he wants diplomatic representation, he goes through his embassy like you or I would do, but he still has to get tried under the laws of that country, just as you or I would be.

Again that is not always the case, particularly in times of conflict.

You get to serve the remaining term of your jail sentence at home many times, you should go talk to the Brits locked up in Thailand for drug running. They actually know what happens, more than you do.

You do realise this isn't technically not a war per se. If it was a war, you would be seeing planes, tanks, ground fodder troops et al. fighting.

MysterX
reply to post by matafuchs

 

For some servicemen who come home to no job this is all they have. To privatize.

And for others they join mafia and run drugs, guns and prostitutes, become contract killers or hold up banks and convenience shops.

Just because there's not a lot going on the job front, doesn't excuse becoming a murderer for hire mate, or any of the other crap 'some' of them turn to.

A criminal is a criminal, lack of a good job isn't an excuse when there are tens of thousands who honourably serve their country, leave the services and don't take the easy money with no questions asked.

It's a CIA op...they hire mercs through BW to go in and create the uprisings, fire at both sides and generally stir the pot, the CIA have plausible deniability when the mercs are caught like this bloke has been, Uncle Sam has nice clean hands and leaves no fingerprints on the bodies.

Anyone who's been following this crap in Ukraine knows the score by now, and if they don't they've not been paying attention.

Either way, the other BW mercs really ought to be getting their crap together and arranging a hasty extraction...this guy will probably be singing his head off before long, and then there'll be dozens just like him rounded up and the CIA will be up the diplomatic creek without a paddle.
 

Basically when folks leave the military, they are unhireable, I wouldn't hire many of them for the simple fact, they are loonatics or killers or bottom of the barrel thickos. I am quite happen to let Darwin take its course with them.

If they were smart they wouldn't be in the military in the first place.

reply to post by pookle


I have experience of the Army, i was a soldier, and while there was a minority of the type of numptys you mention, in my experience, the majority were perfectly ordinary and good lads.

You get the idiots in every walk of life, just as you get honourable, conscientious and descent lads in the Army.

The idiot, gung-ho, yeehaw types i'd imagine are the ones who mostly gravitate towards BW and that kind of outfit.

MysterX
reply to post by pookle

 

I have experience of the Army, i was a soldier, and while there was a minority of the type of numptys you mention, in my experience, the majority were perfectly ordinary and good lads.

You get the idiots in every walk of life, just as you get honourable, conscientious and descent lads in the Army.

The idiot, gung-ho, yeehaw types i'd imagine are the ones who mostly gravitate towards BW and that kind of outfit.

Good for them, they should have no problem finding a job elsewhere then.

Join the mafia...really? Like The Godfather? Hero in battle and comes home to a crime family. I knew it was you Fredo????

You are grouping all military into a bunch of psychopaths. Why? Is there a personal reason or are you simply misinformed?

I know people who served 8-10 years, came home, could not find jobs and went into private security. Some did not. They got degrees and intergrated. Some could not. They say stuff that made them that way or put them on a path.

NONE of them rape people but they do kill...for money. They also put their ass on the line for what they do and sorry, I have no problem with that. It is a choice. This guy CHOSE to be there.

The 18 y/o National Guardsman who was promised a college education and is killed in Iraq with an IED while delivering food..yeah, he probably did not expect it but he ALSO made a choice. It is not right but it is not wrong. It is a consequence of your actions and choices.

If anyone does not believe that there are

1. No Private Security Forces
or
2. No US Special Forces

In Ukraine right now, then you are diluted. Hope this guy can get home soon.

Ranong
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

I not trolling guys, like you said, let's assume it a legit vid.
It must be asked of him, in a court of law, be it, U.S., Ukrainian, Russian, etc. "What is your legitimate purpose of being here as a foreign national dressed in military fatigues which are not of you own country when you country is not actively engaged in war in this country and brandishing weapons which are not legally registered to you?"
For the record: I'm not a Brit or a Yank.

Usually that is called a terrorist anywhere else around the world...

I thought all the Special forces in the Ukraine were Spetznatz.....?
You have really opened my eyes.........wow just wow....!

stirling
I thought all the Special forces in the Ukraine were Spetznatz.....?
You have really opened my eyes.........wow just wow....!

One really has to be naieve to think that external countries don't have their fingers dirty in this chocolate pie.

Real hard men act tough until they are caught then they go like this..

PsychoEmperor
reply to post by matafuchs

 

To state my position prior to this video: I didn't believe we should be there, and I thought the Crimea issue should have been left alone and the voting respected.

And when you send mercenaries there, that, according to yourself, should not be there, and they get caught, you suddenly have the right to be there and protect them?
While it was their fault in first place?

I am not judging the people in the video nor you opinion, but this logic somehow is strange

Even if one can prove a US-based security firm is operating in Ukraine, it is much more difficult to establish for a fact that they are there on behalf of the US government. Ukraine's military is relatively small when compared with that of Russia, and what countries have traditionally done when potentially facing down a conflict is to hire mercenaries from other countries. So obviously Blackwater, or some other agency, could have approached the Ukranian government, or vice versa, without any direct contact with the US government.

I'm sure certain members of the US government would have been told regardless, but it is not certain that they hired this firm to go into Ukraine. If they did it is likely because they cannot send US troops, but they definitely do not wish to risk getting caught in such a compromising position, so I don't think the US government had anything to do with this, IF US contractors are there in the first place. Honestly, even hiring mercenaries would not quell a Russian invasion, so that cannot be the point. Security would be the only reason to bring contractors in, but why can't Ukraine use its own military for such purposes?

Russia will not invade the Ukraine, and I've outlined why I believe this in a thread I posted in yesterday. Any tensions between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian citizens in the region could be handled by the country's own forces. I honestly don't think it makes a lot of sense to hire mercenaries in this particular case. If they did, the only reason I can think of would be for training purposes. They were brought in to train some group of people. Perhaps Ukraine is training citizens for the potentialities of conflict.

If we do not see this guy in a next few days being interviewed than it is staged in my opinion.
On the other hand I do believe contract killers from Greystone are in the field in Ukraine.

mercenaries should know what they're getting into doing what they do, that if captured they are on their own and have no protection of the geneva convention or any government. besides that, that guy looks like a cop or security guard not a mercenary so even if he's american, so what? prove that he's a mercenary and not anything else, that he even did anything wrong. more than that, why is the fact that russian soldiers are interrogating and attacking a supposed american in ukraine not an issue? i thought russia was not invading or even crossing the border, i thought they were the "good" guys who did no wrong, like you know, invading neighbors and harassing foreigners in said country.

Agit8dChop
reply to post by matafuchs

 

looks staged.

If that was real, the captors would be swinging every weapon they could find, every fist and every boot into the man until he was coughing those words out with blood.

This took place in Ukraine, not America. Not all people live in a culture of violence.

matafuchs

Ranong
reply to post by pookle

 

What sucks is that this guy is captured. How do we get him back?
Why would you want him back, he's a merc, excuse me for being blunt, but this guy would violate your siblings if the price was right. Again, he is not a soldier(whatever that means anymore) he's a merc.

Scum? Really? I want him back because he could be a US citizen. A person who has family. Might have kids. A wife. So all 'mercs' would violate my family? Those are some real ignorant comments.

What about all those Ukrainians with families that he is being paid to oppress in their own country?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I never said anything about using them to evade the law only to ensure that the fundamental human rights of the detainee are met. This video quite clearly shows a detainee being beaten by enemy combatants.

Hate to break it to you but the beating of an undeclared American mercenary wearing a Ukrainian "alpha" special forces uniform fighting on behalf of a para-military junta in a separatist republic of Ukraine just doesn't seem like the most illegal aspect here.

Video above of suspected Blackwater (Academi) mercs in Ukraine.

I would say based on the evidence so far that Blackwater, or rather "Academi" as they are known now are for sure operating in Ukraine right now making this video very possibly genuine.

RT video report...



From The Telegraph...

Speculation was growing last night that American mercenaries had been deployed to Donetsk after videos emerged of unidentified armed men in the streets of the eastern Ukrainian city. At least two videos published on YouTube earlier this week show burly, heavily armed soldiers with no insignia in the city, which has been gripped by pro-Moscow protests. In one of the videos onlookers can be heard shouting 'Blackwater! Blackwater!' as the armed men, who wear no insignia, jog through the streets. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Ct

RT segment about Blackwater...



I always like to watch The Young Turks on YouTube as I find the news they cover interesting and like their down to earth look at things with a bit of humour mixed in. here's there little comment on the change from Blackwater to Xu to Academi...

Ok, so let me get this straight... as it seems to be a bit complicated (as usual)...

US soldiers from a private american security company are in Ukraine (who the hell invited them?) working against the Ukranian people (suppressing and attacking them) and supporting the new (illegal and puppet) Ukranian government that is lead by a Nazi?

Perfect. Simply perfect. *claps*

Why doesn't it surprise me that America is once again not only sticking its nose into something that isn't its business, but is also the mastermind behind the whole event? Hm, how many times have we seen this? Oh wait... ALWAYS! Every "war" (staged event leading to occupation of foreign countries) involves America one way or the another. How convenient.

Who gave the United States the right to invite themselves into every conflict as they see fit and also decide the fate of the nation they are occupying while they are on a "friendly mission of spreading peace and protecing local citizens"?

Has the US ever asked anyone? Nope.
Has the US ever given a proper reason for their actions? Nope.

Oh wait, they have - "It was Mr. XY and his goons. They live at this address and they did it like this. We have no evidence and we don't care what the people think, but we'll go there anyway. It's good for our satanic cult and that's what it's about."

They always rush in like they know how many soda caps are at the local junkyard, but never find anything, because there isn't anything to find and do in the first place. It's like the big O in the office goes like: "Hey, what are we doing on Saturday? Ok, let's invade Iran. That sounds good."

Seriously.

I know it's not the individual soldiers that decide where to go and what to do and I know it's not even the military, nor the president. It's decided by a small group of satanic alien hybrids in a large dark room god knows where and on the picnic holidays they hold annually.

But are people still so asleep they can't see how fake and staged almost everything is? Turn off the TV, go outside and think at least for 5 minutes about the world you live in. Even if you don't come up with anything, at least you'll use the head between your shoulders a little.

As for that soldier in the OP... his problem. Nobody forced him to go. It was his choice. And these are the consequences.

And by the way, to end this, I mean no offence to any americans reading this. It's not the ordinary folks I have a problem with (they're just victims of the corrupted system), it's the government government that puts things into motion years in advance and treats their own citizens and others like tools. Tools with poop.