Racism and Jay Z - Does it matter?

kimish
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Wow, This thread really brought the smurfs out.

Sorry Flyers, I thought it was a good thread topic. It's a shame that some people get soo butt hurt over hearing the truth that they have to ruin it for everyone.

S&F

Just to be clear, are you saying that the NY Post headline "Jay-Z's bling from 'whites are devils' group" is what represents truth, and that the discussion pointing out that this is actually a more complex topic, completely misleading title to get more clicks/exposure, and the discussion itself requires more thought... is the "butt hurt" people that "ruin it" for everyone?

reply to post by poloblack

squirrelly. Don't get your little nuts in a bunch

Debate my words...don't do that weak character attack garbage...it shows intentions.

Where did the high horse crap come from? Quit whining.

From here.

maybe you should put down your drumsticks

Maybe you should quit acting like you know more and just debate things without attacking the specifics about me or my avatar.

Quit whining

No debating skills...gotcha.
I am EXTREMELY passionette about this topic and you were the the typical response with no meat behind the point but attacking me...again...very typical in topics like this.
Take care....I won't be bothering to come down to your level any more than this......DINNER TIME!!

reply to post by scientist


Yes, blatant racism is an extremely complex topic. Please, enlighten us some more with your knowledge. Drop jewls on us.

reply to post by FlyersFan


What ludicrous insanity! Yes, it is absolutely amazing that this can exist, that Jay Z can think and feel this way, yet it still be relatively unknown about him. This is why a thread like this is good. It spreads knowledge and awareness. It's a good thing to have accurate perceptions, whether it be about something relevant, or irrelevant, to our personal lives.

Knowing that Jay Z essentially doesn't respect my right as an intellectual equal, but in fact, subscribes to a nonsense belief system that arbitrarily explains blacks as "Gods" and whites as "derivative underlings", and sees themselves in this ridiculous metaphysical context of the black being God incarnate and his black wife "Earth" incarnate. PULLEEEAAZEE.

It is truly amazing that people, whether black, white, asian, whatever, can let these rubbish issues of physical appearance, skin color, eye shape, etc, interfere with the basic facticity of our essential experience. We are all minds within bodies feeling and experiencing the same realities.

It is completely useless and a waste of time and energy bothering yourself with petty differences and speculating a meaning from that when we know full well that complaining and fighting with one another is simply going to perpetuate a continuing dynamic of war and fighting. There is a very very low probability of success for Jay Z and his group. They are not going to change many peoples minds. In fact, in the largest context - the context of reality - they are competing with much more rational viewpoints and perspectives on life. And these perspectives remove unseemly thoughts which cause unneeded suffering and tension in life. Calling whites subhuman creates friction in your life between yourself and others. This is a basic, fundamental tenet of the human social experience. WE ARE DEPENDENT on one anothers mental states. How you act towards me will affect how I act towards you. Unconscious emotional processes influence our awareness, and so, with each back and forth, emotional dynamics predict behaviors.

At the root of it, it is not realistic - and therefore not true - to think in the way Jay Z is thinking.

From a purely cultural perspective, Jay Z deserves to be exposed and shamed for thinking this way. It is deranged and insane to ignore how Jay Z's antics benefit no one except Jay Z. He's worth millions - fine. But he does not even acknowledge the system which made him wealthy. He does not have any sense of humility or empathy towards his fans. He doesn't use his music for positive change, but to instigate conflict, and project his arrogant views into the publics psyche without them realizing that his views are not charitable, that they are rigid, and full of contempt and derision for other people.

I wonder if he tells this to his Freemason brothers...your devils, but give me the knowledge anyway!

reply to post by poloblack


I agree with you but to be trite…two wrongs don’t make a right.

If JZ wanted to be exotic, and that’s all this guy is doing, he should have chosen a non racist groups symbol to exhibit, like Noble Drew Ali or Marcus Garvey, two guys who also started black liberation groups but eschewed racial hatred like Elijah Muhammad and this 5 per center offshoot.

We have to be consistent. We can’t condemn the white racism and then go about practicing black racism.

So, I've been thinking about the hierarchy here:

Black man = Allah (god)
Black woman = Earth
White man = devil
White woman = hell ?

So that's where I rank? I'm hell?

MrStyx
reply to post by savagediver

 

Do you really think thousands and thousands of troops died to free the slaves? You truly believe this? I assure you the civil war wasn't fought to free some slaves. There are a host of economic and political reasons that war was fought but slaves were last on that list.

I think a huge portion of the "white devils" thought they were paying the ultimate sacrifice for the purpose of ending slavery. But as you brought up, believe it was all about states rights.

Funny how in most threads about the civil war it is all about slavery and freedom for the oppressed blacks and the states rights issue is called a lame cover for racism , but when the topic of the civil war is brought up in a thread about black racism against whites the issue of slavery is so very marginalized as in your post above.

Personally I am against slavery of any race or gender. I am also against racism period as the God I believe in does not care about races, he cares about hearts and minds. I must also add that I don't believe you or I or jayz are gods, nothing could be further from the truth.

kimish
reply to post by scientist

 

Yes, blatant racism is an extremely complex topic. Please, enlighten us some more with your knowledge. Drop jewls on us.

"" no resoponse?""

Point is, Racism in the U.S. of A. is strictly hypocritical. This is where the anger comes from, the hypocrisy. If you fail to see that then you are ... yeah. That is all

Two wrongs don't make it right. For those of you that think it does ( I think it's strongly apparent in this thread), may the good Lord bless you and your children that you 'raise'.

reply to post by ketsuko


That would seem to be logically the case.

kimish Please, enlighten us some more with your knowledge. Drop jewls on us.

Since this thread has devolved into snarkiness, I think I'll pass and just zig-zag-zig back to the 36 chambers. Parting thoughts though, this thread has much less to do with 5% and Racism or Jay-Z, than it has to do with the propensity of people to read 5-7 words of a headline, spend 5 minutes on google/wikipedia, and then coming to a snap conclusion.

It's crazy, utterly crazy to me, that a reduced headline from the NY Post is now what passes as truth around here.

I'll tell Yakub you all said hi.

Jay-Z's jewelry is somehow proof he's a racist?

Utter nonsense!

Jay-Z 's jewelry indicating he's capable of producing controversy,

Absolutely!

Fact is, The young urbanites who like Jay-z might not look into the symbolic meaning of his jewelry.

those who do, probably aren't all going to join the 5%ers

I hope his next chain has a swastika, then we can rant about how he's a nazi because he's aware of That symbols meaning.

reply to post by savagediver


Why do you believe that any group should be able to accept the positive acts of individuals as indicative of how good their group is, but call the opposite illogical? I never got that. The good is indicative of the whole, but the bad is just a few bad apples.

That isn't just for race, people do that for prettymuch any group they might be a part of. Church, military, police etc etc.

reply to post by scientist


Yeah the 36 chambers if shaolin. Great movie . Can't comment on the rza's book. Like his artwork but he hangs out with shi yan Ming. Do I'm not sure how solid his understanding of shaolin culture is. Yes I know he's visited china and visited deng feng and wu dang. But I still wonder how much if the diamond sutra he knows to start coopting shaolin culture.

reply to post by balanc3


Umm, you haven't proved anything. One of the big dangers with emotion is that it allows us to get carried away with shoddy reasoning.

Here are the facts:

- He wearing a chain that refers to a black power organization with racist beliefs about non-blacks.

That's a pretty powerful fact. The proper and most sane interpretation of the evidence - whether it be Jay Z's ulterior motive or not - is that he has allied himself with this organization by wearing it's insignia.

The response to this is perfectly rational. On the contrary, to give greater precedence to your interpretation is to really ignore the evidence: he's black, he's wearing insignia that refers to a black power organization. There two facts really seal the deal. It is just strange - and frankly, baseless speculation - to concern yourself with what is hidden (i.e his intention) rather than what is revealed and open (his wearing racist jewellery, and thus professing his racist beliefs).

reply to post by Astrocyte


Of course I proved nothing.

Not like I was trying to either.

I don't believe any certainties can come from looking at a piece of jewelry. Perhaps if he got the symbol tattooed on his face I could be more certain that he is indeed a racist or that he held such radical beliefs as absolutes which the 5% represent.

Even including his statements of awareness of the meaning of the symbol still only suggests he harbors racism in his heart.

But you and others, are stating as some sort of absolute the contents of this man's mind.

Reminds me of a thread where this lady was an animal killer but a picture showed her wearing a cross so everyone called her a Christian.

jewelry is not identity.

btw Jay Z evokes no emotions from me


Eta. . In no way do I condone jayz choice of jewelry or the racist organization it is affiliated with.

I could really care less if people are racist, we all have prejudices. That said, I probably won't buy his music. Whites have lessened our tolerance for hate, but mostly only among whites. We would be best served by allowing the hate and just disaccociating with it, like choosing not to buy their music or their goods.

reply to post by balanc3

Of course I proved nothing.

Not like I was trying to either.

It sounded like it.

I don't believe any certainties can come from looking at a piece of jewelry. Perhaps if he got the symbol tattooed on his face I could be more certain that he is indeed a racist or that he held such radical beliefs as absolutes which the 5% represent.

It's irrational to think in certainties. For example, I can't even be certain that anyone besides myself actually exists. I take it on faith - and probability - that what I experience is like what you experience.

The probability of Jay Z wearing insignia that means something to him - hence his wearing it - is greater than the (unnecessary) assumption that he is merely trying to fool us for the fun of it.

Most rational people would agree with this ^^^

I'm not trying to be a nitpick, but I do think it's important to think clearly about things. You may have said that with a sort of carelessness, not suspecting that anyone would bring break what you said down and logically piece it back together as invalid. And now that I'm making issue of it - only for the sake of clarification - you might feel compelled to further dismiss my point and further on in your position. That would after all be human nature.

Since we can never know certainties (besides our own consciousness),we come to logical conclusions via probability. Yes, we can't know Jay Z's thoughts. But we don't need to. He has given us very good reason to suspect his thoughts are rotten, that the chain he wears - like all symbols which convey specific meaning - expresses his actual views on race, metaphysics, and society.

That's all we need to know. If he is "playing us" - a position we have no good reason to suspect - he's an idiot for doing so. Logically, we should infer that this necklace is meaningful to him. For him not to suspect that would be stupid, and so, he deserves whatever negative publicity he gets for it.

reply to post by balanc3

btw Jay Z evokes no emotions from me

Forgot to respond to this.

Any situation can evoke an emotional response in us. In fact, you would not be able to communicate, if not for emotion.

Expressing an interest in replying to this thread was an emotional action. And then writing what you did with the feelings that you felt as you wrote it - was an emotion.

Again, I'm not trying to nitpick, but I do find it amusing how often people express feelings (myself included!) that feel right in their head, but don't actually reflect an accurate perception of what they're commenting on. That is, Jay Z DOES evoke emotions in you. Maybe not strong ones, but nonetheless, he exists, he's a fact within your minds reality, and in order for you to comment on him, you must have some feelings about him.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Racism is only an issue if you make it an issue.

To me, all I see is people hating on people.