Chicago’s newly armed residents send murder rate plummeting

Who would have known allowing folks to carry guns would have this type of impact???? and so quickly


Ohhh wait

All of us law abiding, gun carrying, 2nd amendment supporting Americans.... We've known this all along

A bad guys worse nightmare is a gun carrying law abiding citizen. I personally open carry specifically to deter the knuckle heads

Too bad congress is blinded by the money they suck up rather than looking out for us.

interupt42
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Agreed, logistics is key and we have won wars cause of it.

However, again in the unlikely bat crazy level fight between our military and civilians: our military has enough fire power to blast us out of the atmosphere before having to even replenish their inventory. Plus our inventory is manufactured and scattered through out the world not just back home.

My point is that civilians being armed with legal arms is not much of a deterrent for our gov't not to go to war with the civilian population. I'm not saying that they aren't going to consider armed civilians , but it would be more so for strategic or political reasons than hesitation. Without a doubt an armed population was a threat to the gov't at one time, but once we went to WMD such a biological agents,drones,stealth, missile guided systems and nuclear weapons that era ended.

Today the main thing keeping our gov't at bay is not our civilian weapons but rather politics, and what would be the purpose of wiping out a population of able body and confirmative civilians.

All I'm saying is that IMO a US civilian armed population is not really a significant threat to the American Military in a bat crazy scenario. I base this on a few things:

1. Better Armed countries with military grade weapons hasn't deterred us from going to war with them.

2. Better Armed countries with military grade weapons haven't done to good against us. Note we have the technology to blow them to smithereens, We have not done so, not because the lack of technology but rather politics , image and who knows maybe even ethics among our elected officials has had a role in it.

3. US Military grade weapons too technologically advance from civilian grade weapons. Civilians weapons are worthless when you are being attacked remotely by stealth technology. By the time you realize you are being attacked its too late.

Like I said I'm for gun ownership , but I don't see the argument that we need to be armed in case we need to get back control of our gov't as holding any water. There a many other valid reasons to have guns but that is not a realistic one in my book.

The only likely scenario that I see the civilian population winning such a war would be: for our Men and Women of the armed forces to show their c0jones and overies to stand down against the orders to attack its civilian population.

edit on 48430America/ChicagoWed, 09 Apr 2014 08:48:29 -0500000000p3042 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)

Well, however, those are an external, not an internal force. Certainly an armed citizen is not going to go toe to toe with a modern military but they don't have to. The idea of asymmetric warfare is that you can make the process so difficult that the war becomes untenable for those fighting it and those ordering the fight. Also consider that many in the military are "right wing extremist" types who do believe in limited government and the constitution. They will defect in droves if there is a fight, as will the contractors (the vast majority being veterans and conservatives) that make military stuff work.

The armed citizenry is still very much a deterrent on a wide scale as the nidus, even if it is not the whole story.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Sounds like we are in agreement that our only chance of surviving such an unlikely event will be based on the Men and Women defecting in droves and disobeying the orders from above.

I guess we are in disagreement on the importance that having armed civilians will make in the decision of overtaking the country or our likelihood of surviving such a ridiculous war. I think there are plenty more important reasons why such a war wouldn't happen. I also think the biggest factor in wining such war would be the defection of Men and Women of the armed forces and directly disobeying their orders from the top to attack.

Even if the majority defected and joined and armed civilian force the remaining few in power could still wipe us out without breaking a sweat by the push of buttons.


Lets not even touch the next wave of robotic soldiers. Since we can't agree in 2014 than can we agree in 2030 we are screwed if such an event would occur,

www.cbsnews.com...

Four fatalities among 35 victims of weekend shootings in Chicago
my.chicagotribune.com.../-1/article/p2p-79899733/

Now that it's getting warmer, we should see crime rate go back up. It happens every summer. The crime rate drop had nothing to do with concealed weapon carry law. It had everything to do with the weather.

reply to post by ddacunha

In fact, only January showed a lower number of murders.
February and March were higher than last year's numbers.

Phage
reply to post by ddacunha

 

In fact, only January showed a lower number of murders.
February and March were higher than last year's numbers.

But, ...wait - they are higher in Feb and March? Then by the standards set in this thread that means the law passed is increasing crime! Holy cow!

CJ

ddacunha
Four fatalities among 35 victims of weekend shootings in Chicago
my.chicagotribune.com.../-1/article/p2p-79899733/

Now that it's getting warmer, we should see crime rate go back up. It happens every summer. The crime rate drop had nothing to do with concealed weapon carry law. It had everything to do with the weather.

Hot weather always increases murder rates, in every major metropolitan city across the U.S. And so do Full Moons...
The point is that people are now more prepared to defend themselves if they have a gun. Also, wasn't it the left-wing liberals who tried to scare the public, with the Rhetoric "If conceal carry is allowed, the murders will go sky high and will be like the Wild West days" and, "we will be moving backwards, not forwards", and therefor directly implying that "the American people and law abiding citizens simply cannot be trusted carry firearms" ?

The Gun Debate is Over. The 2nd Amendment in the United States Constitution has won. Get over it.

rickynews

ddacunha
Four fatalities among 35 victims of weekend shootings in Chicago
my.chicagotribune.com.../-1/article/p2p-79899733/

Now that it's getting warmer, we should see crime rate go back up. It happens every summer. The crime rate drop had nothing to do with concealed weapon carry law. It had everything to do with the weather.

Hot weather always increases murder rates, in every major metropolitan city across the U.S. And so do Full Moons...
The point is that people are now more prepared to defend themselves if they have a gun. Also, wasn't it the left-wing liberals who tried to scare the public, with the Rhetoric "If conceal carry is allowed, the murders will go sky high and will be like the Wild West days" and, "we will be moving backwards, not forwards", and therefor directly implying that "the American people and law abiding citizens simply cannot be trusted carry firearms" ?

The Gun Debate is Over. The 2nd Amendment in the United States Constitution has won. Get over it.

edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)

We don't need to debate everything. I'm all for the second amendment. Chicago's problem is far bigger than the second amendment debate. You should see how the west looks.

rickynews
Hot weather always increases murder rates, in every major metropolitan city across the U.S. And so do Full Moons...
The point is that people are now more prepared to defend themselves if they have a gun. Also, wasn't it the left-wing liberals who tried to scare the public, with the Rhetoric "If conceal carry is allowed, the murders will go sky high and will be like the Wild West days" and, "we will be moving backwards, not forwards", and therefor directly implying that "the American people and law abiding citizens simply cannot be trusted carry firearms" ?

The Gun Debate is Over. The 2nd Amendment in the United States Constitution has won. Get over it.

edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)

Hot weather just allows drunk, high and psychotic people to
come outside and stay outside for longer periods of time.
this allows them to come in contact with people who do not like their behavior.

which results in the drunk, high or psychotic person getting killed or the other way around.

ddacunha

rickynews

ddacunha
Four fatalities among 35 victims of weekend shootings in Chicago
my.chicagotribune.com.../-1/article/p2p-79899733/

Now that it's getting warmer, we should see crime rate go back up. It happens every summer. The crime rate drop had nothing to do with concealed weapon carry law. It had everything to do with the weather.

Hot weather always increases murder rates, in every major metropolitan city across the U.S. And so do Full Moons...
The point is that people are now more prepared to defend themselves if they have a gun. Also, wasn't it the left-wing liberals who tried to scare the public, with the Rhetoric "If conceal carry is allowed, the murders will go sky high and will be like the Wild West days" and, "we will be moving backwards, not forwards", and therefor directly implying that "the American people and law abiding citizens simply cannot be trusted carry firearms" ?

The Gun Debate is Over. The 2nd Amendment in the United States Constitution has won. Get over it.

edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)

We don't need to debate everything. I'm all for the second amendment. Chicago's problem is far bigger than the second amendment debate. You should see how the west looks.

I know Chicago quite well, and spend alot of time there too. If you think Chicago is bad, visit Detroit sometime. It's the saddest large city in the U.S.

spirited75

rickynews
Hot weather always increases murder rates, in every major metropolitan city across the U.S. And so do Full Moons...
The point is that people are now more prepared to defend themselves if they have a gun. Also, wasn't it the left-wing liberals who tried to scare the public, with the Rhetoric "If conceal carry is allowed, the murders will go sky high and will be like the Wild West days" and, "we will be moving backwards, not forwards", and therefor directly implying that "the American people and law abiding citizens simply cannot be trusted carry firearms" ?

The Gun Debate is Over. The 2nd Amendment in the United States Constitution has won. Get over it.

edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)

Hot weather just allows drunk, high and psychotic people to
come outside and stay outside for longer periods of time.
this allows them to come in contact with people who do not like their behavior.

which results in the drunk, high or psychotic person getting killed or the other way around.

I agree

i live in chicago too, this new law will not stop the violence. 30+ shootings this weekend. imo america's violence problem is not going to be solved w gun laws banning or encouraging them. 9 times out of 10 it's a drug problem whether they be illegal or legal, 9 times out of 10 drugs or alcohol have something to do w the violence.

Yeah about that...

www.chicagotribune.com...

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips

The peeps don't seem to be worried much about concealed carry permits.

Chicago Police Department spokesman Adam Collins declined to comment on whether the weekend's temperatures — Saturday reached 80 degrees, the city's warmest day so far this year — contributed to the number of shootings, though criminologists have said that weather does play a role in violent crime.

www.chicagotribune.com...

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Nobody ever said conceal carry would stop crime. What is said , is that with conceal carry, the good citizens can at least defend thmselves from criminals.

reply to post by rickynews

Nobody ever said conceal carry would stop crime.

Did you read the OP?

Phage
reply to post by rickynews

 

Nobody ever said conceal carry would stop crime.

Did you read the OP?

I did, and I was referring to the general debate regarding conceal carry, not the OP's opinion.

originally posted by: Phage
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

The shootings being down ought to send a very large hint to the anti0gun crowd

But, the decrease occurred before anybody had a permit. Is the hint that something else was responsible?

The decrease occurred after it was known that people could obtain a permit. Criminals don't tend to research the details, or determine how long that might take, and would simply react to the greater likelihood that their intended victims could now be armed. Statistics all over show the same results. More guns, with less controls, in the hands if citizens causes crime rates to drop. When you compare this case to all of the others, there is a pattern. Most criminals want easy targets, after all.

originally posted by: ScottProphhit
I think you'll find it's the Muslims who walk the streets of Britain scared of being attacked.

I have spoken to a decent number of people that live there, and read many news accounts. I stand by what I stated. In areas where there are larger numbers of Muslims, there is more violence. School children are targeted. People re killed on the street. Check the news sometime. The stories aren't uncommon.

a reply to: voidla

There is plenty of evidence to support my position. If you can't find it, then you aren't looking. News articles, videos, personal reports, and more. There are places in GB that the police are told they aren't allowed to go.