What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

Interesting article I can't find posted here. If it is let me know. [NYT]

Meanwhile, the real enemy remains at large.

Boils down to that for all the years Bin Laden was in Pakistan, they're trying to tell us that the ISI knew. The locals knew. Everyone in Pakistan probably knew. But we didn't know.

He came and went and was not confined to his compound.


Damn, the ISI is sounding more and more like the most powerful intelligence (cough) organization on the planet. They should be with all the billions we send them, eh?

The haul of handwritten notes, letters, computer files and other information collected from Bin Laden’s house during the raid suggested otherwise, however. It revealed regular correspondence between Bin Laden and a string of militant leaders who must have known he was living in Pakistan, including Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a pro-Kashmiri group that has also been active in Afghanistan, and Mullah Omar of the Taliban. Saeed and Omar are two of the ISI’s most important and loyal militant leaders. Both are protected by the agency. Both cooperate closely with it, restraining their followers from attacking the Pakistani state and coordinating with Pakistan’s greater strategic plans. Any correspondence the two men had with Bin Laden would probably have been known to their ISI handlers.

Interesting spin here...

America’s failure to fully understand and actively confront Pakistan on its support and export of terrorism is one of the primary reasons President Karzai has become so disillusioned with the United States. As American and NATO troops prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of this year, the Pakistani military and its Taliban proxy forces lie in wait, as much a threat as any that existed in 2001.

Things that make you shake your head.

ETA: I don't believe that Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan anyway, so to me it's a moot point. The things that I find interesting are those I already mentioned: the billions we send to people who hate us and kill us, the Karzai excuse, and the continuing insanity of the story.

I read this article. It is a very good and informative one.

It has always stuck me as very weird that the US would back Pakistan when it is clear they are surreptitiously running the extremists out of Pakistan.

Here is the deal: IMO, The ISI does everything the CIA tells it to do.

This is likely where the secret cell of the creators of this phony terrorism war originates in the ISI cell that the CIA runs as a cut out to invent the foreign terrorist so this war can be maintained.

reply to post by Willtell

Yeah. Rumor has it there was high ISI involvement in 9/11 too.

Thing is, we give them the money to arm the Taliban to kill our own people (and the Indians when they were there) in Afghanistan and hardly anyone seems to mind.

Here's an old dogs opinion. The ISI is not one cohesive entity. There are factions within it that serve their constituencies. This in itself is just a wonderful platform for deny ability for the nation state as an entity. This all goes back to the mid seventies, early eighties Bob Baer et al.. and the covert war against the Soviets. The spooks have always had an affinity for poor choices of allies. Their belief that " the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has cost them dear since the second world war. Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro are just a couple of former "clients" that went on to become major problems. Bin Laden and his gang were just another example of this "blow back" that has plagued American covert operations. The ISI is just the same, they were the funnel that the money and arms went to the Afghan resistance. No one stopped to ask what these folk were actually fighting as long as they were keeping the Soviets pinned in SW Asia. Quite a shock to them to discover that they were viewed as a bigger enemy for playing footsie so much with the Saudi's and wangling bases. The arrogance and cultural ignorance of American foreign policy makes it almost impossible for them to understand the issues faced by governments such as Pakistan and it leaves them open for unpleasant surprises such as the Bombay attack, Dr. Khan's proliferation and Bin Laden's retirement home.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


That’s the point, to create an enemy where these crazy warmongers within the dark Military Industrial Intelligence Complex system of this country can create, maintain, and execute a phony war such as in Afghanistan.

This “war” in Afghanistan can anyone tell me anything about it?

What are the casualty figures?

Who’s winning?

Where is the information and news on the battles?

Why isn’t any of this ever talked about in the media?

Now that they have beat the terrorist war to death the action turns to Russia and this new cold war.

That is where the action is turning

More war, more weapons built

More military

More intelligence

All a cowboy and Indians game of some very sick people so people like Dick Cheney and others can have bigger and greener Golf courses while young people die like dogs in these phony wars.

reply to post by Bluetwo

It all boils down to having legitimate cut outs to create the enemies they need for their wars.

The scum bags that benefit and profit from these sick wars, where ONLY the young and foolish that joined the military die, always profit from them.

Look at the Military hardware makers who are always behind the politicians in America, Like Cheney, Bush, and the con-man Obama, who are profiting from this war on terrorism.

In the Carter years that NWO elitist Rockefeller flunky Zbigniew Brzezinski helped to create and rile up the Islamists that eventually created the maniacal insane Taliban who were created lock stock and barrel by the ISI.

At first they needed to create these fundamentalist to fight the Russians.

They helped encourage and create these Manchurian fundamentalist and then reinvented them to fight against the American empire because the wars were running out.

911 was the catalyst and their boy Bin Laden was and is the greatest Manchurian candidate since the mass murderer Harry Truman.

reply to post by Willtell


You seem to have a pretty good handle on it. Check out sometime the Nationalist Chinese and old Uncle Ho and the weapons stock piled by the OSS for the coming indo- china adventures, fun research. What a pit of vipers and profiteers. Same old same old.

reply to post by Bluetwo

Ah yes. I remember these circumstances and discussions too, the factions within, allowed to continue for the greater good, so complex a rabbit hole that few even remember most of this stuff. Yeah it probably was a shock to them, as it was to quite a few others (Hussein, Ghadaffi, and more). Bin Laden sure was our blowback but out boogeyman and scapegoat, but I'm still pondering on this one. If he really was still alive and still in Pakistan (which I doubt), it's egregious that we did not know he was there. That or one hand knew and let it ride until an opportune occasion. Good stuff. I think it's important that this be documented, with as much factual analysis as possible. Thank you.

P.S. Dr. Khan is the nuke man, correct?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Yup, Dr. Kahn provided data to quite a few "bad actors", some of whom have not been identified. As far as Bin Laden goes, I have yet to form a definitive position as the rabbit hole is soooo deep. It becomes a question of who is using who. Just like old Lee Oswald who was a low level NOC, playing all sides thinking he was a hero, little did he suspect the end game in store for him. These guys play at a level that is beyond comprehension, wheels within wheels with few of the players knowing who really is in control. Patriotism is a disease that infects the mid ranks thoroughly, they are "true believers", they really think that they are doing whats best for their nations or causes. The cynicism comes in at the upper levels that control them and twists these supposed laudable sentiments to fit agendas not even contemplated by those in the field. It's a sad state of affairs but it is history repeating over and over again. I have to say (with some fear of being flamed) I don't subscribe to the NWO theory. They are too disorganized, blind sided by events, always behind the power curve. To me they are just a bunch of scared old money/corporate money rich guys trying desperately to protect their assets, trying to put the tooth paste back in the tube. They may give the illusion of being monolithic and untouchable but events have proven this to be untrue a good example being Barrings Bank. They are all subject to such happenstance and it terrifies them, thus they become heavy handed with their attempts to control only to be gobsmacked when the next unexpected event overtakes them.

Anyways that was semi off topic. But the long and the short of it is that the genies out of the bottle in asymmetrical warfare and for the citizen it won't really matter if it's controlled by a cause a nation state or the local tough guy, they will be the ones paying the price. Really all any of us wants is to live our lives, raise our children and live in peace. Pity that seems to be last on the list of goals for our world leaders.


If pushed for an opinion I would have to say the a faction of the ISI knew he was there and protected him. As I think that the Mad Mullah is probably in the gated community next door. These guys were their assets and in some services there is a sense of responsibility for former and current assets and agents, unlike the US where a NOC can be outed for political revenge.

Here's an old dogs opinion. The ISI is not one cohesive entity. There are factions within it that serve their constituencies. This in itself is just a wonderful platform for deny ability for the nation state as an entity.

Well this old dog is on the right track however it is far, far more complex than could ever be explained here. Two chapters and 90 or so pages in Peter Bergen's Manhunt attempts to unravel the players at play in Pakistan. Not one cohesive entity is a good way to start however with everyone having so many different names and country of origin it's quite a puzzle.

It reminded me of the song lyric "every name a alias in case somebody squeals".

That is very true. The ISI had like 20 different guys named Abu Azzam who all looked alike and played both sides of the fence with the CIA.

No writer of spy novels could have never come up with the twist and turns in this affair.

According to Ahmad Shah Massoud (my go to guy on facts regarding Bin Laden, The Taliban, Al Queada and Pakistan) he says the Pakistani ISI were sponsoring Bin Laden in Afghanistan prior to 911 so it is very likely they were involved post 911.

Much evidence suggests it was Bin Laden in association with the ISI who assassinated Massoud the day before 911 (days after he gave a speach at the UN warning that his intelligence assets had uncovered a terrorist attack on US soil).

The ISI isn't/wasn't/never will be a friend of the US/West


The rest is just fodder.

I was going to do a thread about this after i saw it on Yahoo today..however, after a bit of research i found out this story broke in about 2011..

Osama Bin Laden protected by Pakistan for millions in Saudi Cash.

The daily Mail - Pakistan hid bin laden in return for Saudi Cash.

A funny thing is..reading the two stories, they're nearly exactly the same, word for word.

So this issue is in the news cycle now. I am surprised with Mr. Bergen's position on the subject considering his extensive knowledge of the issues. The factionalism in the ISI is a well known fact that has been eluded to with the Pakistani governments discussion of positive control of their strategic arsenal. To suggest that because he asked around and got a denial from both Pak and American sources seems rather weak considering that duplicity is a hallmark of tradecraft in that business. I think Ms. Gall has hit the nail on the head. Now comes the denials and attempts to protect the "special relationship" that in reality doesn't exist, more of a mutual use society as long as it suits.

www.cnn.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">CNN Bergen Opinion peice.

If anyone here has any doubts as to where Pakistans loyalties lay, watch these videos.

Part One - Double Cross


Part Two - Backlash


Even the Taliban are pissed off at them being a nuisance.

reply to post by Bluetwo


Well put. I agree. Bergen understood it with his vast knowledge of the relationship between ISI and the many different factions that spread out from what scarcely be called an intelligence entity.

However, putting his knowledge on paper, in an attempt to inform others, was very difficult because of the night and day differences in culture.

Even the simplest of inquiries such as 'who really runs this mess' is forever lost in the layer after layer of partisan divisions that make up the agency-if it really is an agency.

A question like "was the ISI responsible for looting Bin Ladens fortune when he was kicked out of Sudan" again is marred in religious differences and tribal influences along with the fact that some have stated that President Clinton was behind in getting OBL kicked out and his looted fortune is the payoff for the ISI.

That can hardly be true-or can it?

Depends on who you ask.

just curiuos,, anyone in the Pakistan Secret Service,, retire early??

25 million sumolians,,bet it was tempting.

The CIA story from Khartoum in which they carried stacks of hundred dollar bills in a wheelbarrow to try to buy information. The locals had no idea what a 'dollar' was or what a 'million' was.

To their surprise the stacks were being fed to their donkeys and bundles were in outhouses through out the city. Also, an industrial shop keeper had soaked some in a mud puddle and plastered them on top of holes in his shop.

Is this story true? I don't know but in this part of the world a man is rich if his donkey is less than ten years old.