Revelation - Jesus is seen on a horse in the sky?

sk0rpi0n
The book of Revelation contains the description of an armed horseman in white appearing in the heavens who goes about conquering the nations. I have seen many Christians interpret this vision literally, to conclude that the horseman (who according to them is Jesus) would literally be seen riding a horse in the sky. I believe the vision of the horseman, like that of the strange beasts, the whore and the four colored horsemen are just...symbolic visions that represent future events. We may not see Jesus literally return on a white horse in the skies, just like how we wont see beasts rising out of the sea and land or horsemen running around creating havoc. ___________________________________________________The vision of the horseman in the sky could simply be a spectacular but symbolic representation of a more down to earth appearance of the horseman, who in my opinion would keep a low profile and would be known only by the armies he would fight alongside with. To the rest of the world under the control and influence of the anti-Christ, Jesus would be a militiaman waging war against the anti-Christs hi-tech armies. Even if he did appear on TV proclaiming to be who he really is, the world expecting to see Jesus on a horse in the sky...would dismiss him as a fraud. Only God knows best what will happen.

edit on 18-3-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

The description of Jesus in that also includes "out of His mouth goes a sharp sword with which He will smite the nations" and on His thigh it will say "Faithful and True".

The sharp sword is the Word of God, so He will speak and His words will smite nations. And because the name Faithful and True, that indicates that if He comes as a military leader, which is assumed here, then you have to go back to what Enoch said "I saw the Lord's return with ten thousands thousands of His saints". Why? To bring war.

But as Armageddon is mentioned, can you name the countries involved and why? They had gathered against Israel. So you believe the Mahdi is going to come to defend Israel?

And it isn't going to be much of a high-tech war, because who loses? When you read Revelation, consider it with the entire Bible because it's all connected. The consistent theme throughout every prophetic event of the end times is that nations have gathered against Israel. Every prophecy. From Enoch to Malachi, the warning was against those who are against Israel. So ask yourself, it you take it as real, then literally you have to question what side you are on.

If you don't take it as real, but symbolically, then do you think God giving these prophetic utterances from Enoch to Malachi, was simply God being displeased? Is God serious or not? What do you think? From a Biblical perspective, from every prophet that has spoken, do you think your side stands a chance? If you believe the prophets, then you are going to have to believe in the God who gave the prophecies.

Really, do you think your side stands a chance when you read the Bible?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The vision of the horseman in the sky could simply be a spectacular but symbolic representation of a more down to earth appearance of the horseman . . .

It symbolizes victory and the victory is of the word of God, which converts the world.
It has nothing to do with physical warfare.

reply to post by WarminIndy

If you don't take it as real, but symbolically, then do you think God giving these prophetic utterances from Enoch to Malachi, was simply God being displeased? Is God serious or not?

The Prophets are just dripping in metaphor.
If you can't see it or understand it, I suggest that you read some commentaries on them that are not written by Dispensationalists pushing a cult agenda.

Will He be riding a great white horse with Malaysian Airlines wrote upon it? I'll believe it then...

Or not.

jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

If you don't take it as real, but symbolically, then do you think God giving these prophetic utterances from Enoch to Malachi, was simply God being displeased? Is God serious or not?

The Prophets are just dripping in metaphor.
If you can't see it or understand it, I suggest that you read some commentaries on them that are not written by Dispensationalists pushing a cult agenda.

edit on 18-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

I suggest you stop reading commentaries and read the Bible itself.

jmdewey60
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

The vision of the horseman in the sky could simply be a spectacular but symbolic representation of a more down to earth appearance of the horseman . . .

It symbolizes victory and the victory is of the word of God, which converts the world.
It has nothing to do with physical warfare.

Then JmDewey, you better hop on the side of Israel. The Bible mentions by name those countries who come against Israel and what God will do to them.

Right now, Syria is Biblical prophecy fulfilled from Amos.

Amos:1 The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.

2 And he said, The Lord will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.

3 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:

4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.

5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the Lord.

6 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom:

7 But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which shall devour the palaces thereof:

8 And I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod, and him that holdeth the sceptre from Ashkelon, and I will turn mine hand against Ekron: and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord God.

The remnant of the Philistines, which are Latinized Palestinians.

@WarminIndy.....



The sharp sword is the Word of God, so He will speak and His words will smite nations. And because the name Faithful and True, that indicates that if He comes as a military leader, which is assumed here, then you have to go back to what Enoch said "I saw the Lord's return with ten thousands thousands of His saints". Why? To bring war.

The visions could just be spectacular symbols of a not-so-spectacular event. Like how the spectacular visions of a multi-headed beasts and colored horsemen are only symbols.

But as Armageddon is mentioned, can you name the countries involved and why? They had gathered against Israel. So you believe the Mahdi is going to come to defend Israel?

Not sure what you were trying to say exactly. I don't see what the horseman has to do with defending Israel....a state that is currently insulting Jesus,the horseman....holding gay parades....running brothels....30% atheist/secular. There is no prophecy in the Bible that says Israel would be ''reborn'' as a sinful state...therefore the Modern state of Israel is an impostor...but I am digressing here.

The consistent theme throughout every prophetic event of the end times is that nations have gathered against Israel. Every prophecy. From Enoch to Malachi, the warning was against those who are against Israel

what you are forgetting is that the same Bible also warns Israel...as many number of times as her enemies, (probably more.) There is a reason as to why the modern city, Jerusalem is NOT mentioned by name at all in the book of Revelation! Its alluded to via symbols and hints, but NOT by name like in other books. The only mention of ''Jerusalem'' refers to ''New Jerusalem''.... a heavenly city, but not the earthly modern city. Point being Revelation says modern Jerusalem is prophesied to be destroyed.

reply to post by WarminIndy

The remnant of the Philistines, which are Latinized Palestinians.

That is pretty simplistic, to think that the people living in Palestine are actually Philistines.
Is that the sort of thing that they teach you at your cult meetings?
Anyway, thanks for bringing that to my attention, it is interesting, and I just ordered 2 commentaries on Amos from Amazon, as I don't already have any on that particular book of the Bible. So there is $54 that I just spent on this topic, despite ordering used copies.

jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

The remnant of the Philistines, which are Latinized Palestinians.

That is pretty simplistic, to think that the people living in Palestine are actually Philistines.
Is that the sort of thing that they teach you at your cult meetings?
Anyway, thanks for bringing that to my attention, it is interesting, and I just ordered 2 commentaries on Amos from Amazon, as I don't already have any on that particular book of the Bible. So there is $54 that I just spent on this topic, despite ordering used copies.

edit on 19-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

JmDewey, I think history has pretty well proven that Hadrian was a real guy.

sk0rpi0n

@WarminIndy.....



The sharp sword is the Word of God, so He will speak and His words will smite nations. And because the name Faithful and True, that indicates that if He comes as a military leader, which is assumed here, then you have to go back to what Enoch said "I saw the Lord's return with ten thousands thousands of His saints". Why? To bring war.

The visions could just be spectacular symbols of a not-so-spectacular event. Like how the spectacular visions of a multi-headed beasts and colored horsemen are only symbols.

But as Armageddon is mentioned, can you name the countries involved and why? They had gathered against Israel. So you believe the Mahdi is going to come to defend Israel?

Not sure what you were trying to say exactly. I don't see what the horseman has to do with defending Israel....a state that is currently insulting Jesus,the horseman....holding gay parades....running brothels....30% atheist/secular. There is no prophecy in the Bible that says Israel would be ''reborn'' as a sinful state...therefore the Modern state of Israel is an impostor...but I am digressing here.

The consistent theme throughout every prophetic event of the end times is that nations have gathered against Israel. Every prophecy. From Enoch to Malachi, the warning was against those who are against Israel

what you are forgetting is that the same Bible also warns Israel...as many number of times as her enemies, (probably more.) There is a reason as to why the modern city, Jerusalem is NOT mentioned by name at all in the book of Revelation! Its alluded to via symbols and hints, but NOT by name like in other books. The only mention of ''Jerusalem'' refers to ''New Jerusalem''.... a heavenly city, but not the earthly modern city. Point being Revelation says modern Jerusalem is prophesied to be destroyed.

Skorpion

Then don't you think maybe God is serious? God knows best, right? So if God knows best and God said this, then you probably should believe God knows best about what He said.

What do you think? Do you think if God knows best then God would know best when He said it to the prophets? Hmm, then if God knows best, then maybe your side should not go against Israel? That would probably be the best to do, otherwise you are going against what God said. Not the best idea.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Hmm, then if God knows best, then maybe your side should not go against Israel?

Because a military regime sets itself up and calls itself Israel, that does not force God's hand to accept it as a fact and declare it His chosen people.
The New Testament, which means the new covenant, says that Christians or those who believe in Jesus, are now God's chosen people.

jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Hmm, then if God knows best, then maybe your side should not go against Israel?

Because a military regime sets itself up and calls itself Israel, that does not force God's hand to accept it as a fact and declare it His chosen people.
The New Testament, which means the new covenant, says that Christians or those who believe in Jesus, are now God's chosen people.

What did I quote to you earlier from the Bible?

But as you can't seem to understand, "There will be those who cry Lord, Lord and don't make it in". Christian or not, if you cry Lord, doesn't mean you make it in.

The day is coming JmDewey, and guess what, there's going to be a temple, there's going to be an anti-Christ, there's going to be an end when Jesus comes.

And then you want to say it is metaphorical. Well why don't you share with all the skeptics and non-believers in Christianity just how much you do not believe in Biblical prophecy even though you say you are a Christian. There WILL be an end, as Jesus said. But it's too difficult for you to say Jesus will come back, so you deny every Biblical prophecy.

I encourage you to read Romans 11. Don't boast yourself against the branches. And all of Israel shall be saved because there will come a deliverer out of Sion. Don't pull on us the old "predestination of Christians" stuff because it goes against Romans 11. ALL of Israel will be saved, whether or not you want it to happen. But before that, a great falling away from the faith WILL happen. The man of sin WILL be revealed because he WILL sit in the temple and pretend to be God.

But until that day, don't boast yourself against the branches.

reply to post by WarminIndy

The day is coming JmDewey, and guess what, there's going to be a temple, there's going to be an anti-Christ, there's going to be an end when Jesus comes.

When that happens, you can do the Snoopy dance.
Otherwise it is a cooked-up doctrine of the nineteenth century to pave the way for the zionist land-grab of Palestine.

And then you want to say it is metaphorical. Well why don't you share with all the skeptics and non-believers in Christianity just how much you do not believe in Biblical prophecy even though you say you are a Christian.

"Prophecy" was a device to get the people to repent of their sins and to reform the community, and it used metaphorical devices to make their point.
None of it was written to say that on such and such a day so and so is going to happen, in a literal way.
There isn't a stipulation in the Bible that says to be a Christian you have to believe that certain political events have to take place.
You do need to believe that there is a future resurrection, otherwise there isn't much point in being a Christian in the first place.

There WILL be an end, as Jesus said.

He was talking about the end of the Jerusalem temple cult.

But it's too difficult for you to say Jesus will come back, so you deny every Biblical prophecy.

Jesus will come for everyone who is his, at some point, and in some way, but it is not that clear exactly, but we have to assume that the main purpose is the resurrection.

ALL of Israel will be saved, whether or not you want it to happen.

All true followers of God, and at this time it is those who are obedient in believing in His son, Jesus.

reply to post by WarminIndy

The man of sin WILL be revealed because he WILL sit in the temple and pretend to be God.

This seems to be a reference to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by Titus.
If you have never read The Wars of the Jews by Josephus, I suggest that you do because it describes all the things laid out here.
In fact, I believe that whoever wrote 2 Thessalonians was using Josephus to put this passage together.
"The day of the Lord" here is what Jesus predicted in the gospels, which was the days of vengeance that resulted in the fall of Jerusalem, and the destruction of the temple.
This particular passage at least was probably written after the publication of Josephus' book, but made to look like Paul wrote it earlier and predicted this doom, in a prophetic moment.

@ WarminIndy... And all of Israel shall be saved because

The Bible says only one third.... a ''remnant'' of Israelites will survive.

sk0rpi0n

@ WarminIndy... And all of Israel shall be saved because

The Bible says only one third.... a ''remnant'' of Israelites will survive.

Do you ever read the Bible in its entirety or do you pick out things to support your theological mindset?

Read it all. Then come back and tell us. And don't rely on JmDewey to help you because he only reads commentaries.

WarminIndy

sk0rpi0n

@ WarminIndy... And all of Israel shall be saved because

The Bible says only one third.... a ''remnant'' of Israelites will survive.

Do you ever read the Bible in its entirety or do you pick out things to support your theological mindset?

Read it all. Then come back and tell us. And don't rely on JmDewey to help you because he only reads commentaries.

I know my way around the Bible,and I'm not relying to Jmdwey. Address the points please. I am not about to copy paste scripture from YOUR own book to convince you that only one third of Israel are going to remain. Its there in the Bible. I'm not making it up.

sk0rpi0n
The Bible says only one third.... a ''remnant'' of Israelites will survive.
............
Address the points please. I am not about to copy paste scripture from YOUR own book to convince you that only one third of Israel are going to remain. Its there in the Bible. I'm not making it up

No it isn't .....Israel has not existed since around 700 BCE.They were conquered by the Assyrians.Israel and Judah are not the same people.Israel was the remnants of ten tribes of Israel from the original 12 tribes and were called the Northern kingdom after the split from Judah, the southern kingdom, which was the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, some of Levi and some other Israelites.

There is no Northern kingdom of Israel remnants nor have any reformed they have been assimilated for millenniums.What is called Israel today is more accurately Judah and even they are not all descendants from the tribe of Judah.

You are most likely referring and confusing Revelation 12 where it says a 1/3 of the "stars".That is not Israel nor demons nor anybody.It is a metaphor as is ALL of the book of Revelation.

sk0rpi0n

WarminIndy

sk0rpi0n

@ WarminIndy... And all of Israel shall be saved because

The Bible says only one third.... a ''remnant'' of Israelites will survive.

Do you ever read the Bible in its entirety or do you pick out things to support your theological mindset?

Read it all. Then come back and tell us. And don't rely on JmDewey to help you because he only reads commentaries.

I know my way around the Bible,and I'm not relying to Jmdwey. Address the points please. I am not about to copy paste scripture from YOUR own book to convince you that only one third of Israel are going to remain. Its there in the Bible. I'm not making it up.

edit on 20-3-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

It's MY own book that you asked the opening question from in the first place. No, you don't know what the Bible says and if you have to rely on copy and paste means that you didn't know where to look in the first place.

Who are you ripping your information from if all you can do is that? Sure, I copy and paste from my book, but I know where to look to begin with. Now, keep going on posting disinformation, because that's really all you are doing. You asked about Jesus in Revelation, you got an answer about Jesus in Revelation.

No, it says 1/3 of ALL men shall be wiped out.

reply to post by WarminIndy

3 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:

This is a reference to the subjugation of Damascus by Adad-nirari III, king of the Assyrians.

According to the eponym canon, he campaigned in all directions until the last of his 28 years of reign, and he was the builder of the temple of Nabu at Nineveh. Among his actions was a siege of Damascus in the time of Ben-Hadad III in 796 BCE, which led to the eclipse of the Aramaean Kingdom of Damascus and allowed the recovery of Israel under Jehoash (who paid the Assyrian king tribute at this time) and Jeroboam II. Additionally, he is thought by some to be the "King of Nineveh" who, upon receiving Jonah's prophecy of forthcoming doom, dressed himself in sackcloth and ordered a fast throughout the city in a successful attempt to prevent it. (Jonah 3:6–9)
en.wikipedia.org...

I got one of the Amos commentaries this morning, and will have the other one later today (or so tracking tells me).