John Kerry: 'Russia Has Until Monday to Reverse Course in Ukraine"

reply to post by tencap77


Good point about the "REASON" for war. Before it was fighting the commies. But now for a thinking and informed soldier, it is fighting for the NEOCON bankers agenda. Too many of such fights a even a soldier of the most advanced and equipped military would turn out a unmotivated performance. Fine, the word RUSKIES will still perk up lots of men in the uniform, but word Russki will also mean lots more of losses and damage. Soon that fervor would be washed out and real sense will start to simmer in. Bottomline, common 18 or 22 year old and his family getting hurt for towing the agenda of some NEOCONs political obsession.

In the US political establishment, there are groups and think circles who profess that NUKE War with Russia is winnable. With that information as a base, more bold foreign policy headaches soon approaching.

I love when stupid people make false threats they have no power to even do anything!
This guy is like the mouth piece for the utterly ignorant! His family and friends should
hook him up to a train whistle!

victor7

1997-2001.state.gov...

The Charter provides for development of a crisis consultation mechanism and for consultation whenever Ukraine perceives a direct threat to its territorial integrity, political independence or security and "welcomes and supports the fact that Ukraine received security assurances from all five nuclear weapons states parties to the NPT." However, only NATO members are entitled to Article V security guarantees under the Washington Treaty.

So in other words, the next country that we give security assurances to in order to secure nuclear materials might as well just give them to terrorists because the NATO countries don't stand by their word? Is that what you are suggesting? There are 2 paths here, stand by our word as a country or demonstrate that our word means nothing. Regardless of your opinion of any president, if we don't stand by verbals when it comes to assurances made, we'll lose the credibility to make them in the future. If there was a time to protest those assurances, it was 20 years ago when they were being made.

I think there is no way to back down lest we lose all leverage in the future to convince nations to hand over nuclear materials. Iran? North Korea? What we do in this situation sets the bar for those future negotiations.

For people who really unstand geo-politics and the way global diplomacy works, the US and EU have played this brilliantly. By not taking the Russian bait and making military threats or going overtly hawkish they have managed to gather global support and take the air out of Russia's ability to rally anyone to its support. At the same time the symbolic gesture of sending aircraft to Poland is a very low key way of reminding Russia that US and NATO have more than enough military power to deal with it if they so wished. Of couse the real power the West has is global support and economic weapons. Even only minor actions will cost Russia nearly everything it has worked to build. By playing the long game the West is looking to remove Putin and his kind for good and never have to fire a shot to do so. In fact it will be the Russians themselves that do it. When both the rich and the poor unite against you because your actions have wrecked the economy you know you will have trouble.

And Russia now has to deal with Crimea at every turn. That IMF loan Russia was asking for? what about Crimea, the G-8 buisness you wanted? What about Crimea? Trade with rest of the world? What about Crimea? Those navy ships you want to buy from France? What about Crimea? That drone tech you wanted from Israel? What about Crimea? Anything you want support for in the UN? What about Crimea? And in the mean time, the US regains its global high ground, NATO gains new members, Russia becomes and isolated economic black hole. Russia has even put China in a position that it can not support it because of the implications for Tibet.

Putin has screwed Russia big time. He banked on the West being reckless and he was wrong. Nobody plays the diplomatic game better than the US.

reply to post by MrSpad


It's all over for the Uks right wings in Crimea now.

If west creates more pressure and stupid moves, Russia will pocket East Ukraine also.

NATO will be reduced to beating drums loudly till the time they get holes and cracks. Nothing much else it can do.

Go back and make new plans to beat up some small third world nation after inciting civil wars and creating chaos amongst the vulnerable populations.

That's what you all are good for! SHAME !!

kerry makes me larf...
standing behind the bus while telling the bus driver to reverse is particularly ADAMS FAMILY like

thats how you know its heinze...its the thickest and its very slow
oh well, it always did seem to take him time to ketchup.

business wise?
vlad just has to wait for the dollar to implode...when not if

reply to post by Danbones


english.pravda.ru...

Current turmoil is all based on gas - getting gas to Europe to remove the European dependency on Russian gas and thus Russia's bargaining power over Europe. Reducing the European market also may well have the effect of reducing Russia's foreign exchange and therefore, wealth of the country. A weaker Russia, a poorer Russia will be easier for the West to control.

A very large gas find has been made off the coast of Syria, the Leviathan field - which in effect extends outside the Zionist occupied land and Lebanon. Bashar Al Assad was prepared to grant concession to Gazprom and the Russian interests would have controlled this completely. Guess who had to go - Bashar Al Assad needed to be replaced with a "Free Syria" [euphemism for Western Puppet government]. The Zionists had a vested interest in this, so too Turkey and the Saudis' and a large conglomerate of "International" companies, headed by an American company with a 30% stake would develop the huge gas field and the gas was to be shipped into Europe via Turkey.

If Russian-backed lawmakers in Crimea go through with the Sunday referendum, Kerry said the U.S. and its European allies will not recognize it as legitimate under international law.

The U.S. and Europe on Monday would then unite to impose sanctions on Russia, Kerry told a Senate Appropriations subcommittee Thursday during a hearing on the State Department's budget.

Funny how they simply "assume" the vote in Crimea will go for annexation.

From what Kerry said, he would not recognize any vote even if they vote to stay with Ukraine !!!!

But just the same, it looks like it's a "go to Russia" with a 95% "Yes".

Now we will see who is chicken.

reply to post by victor7


yep i get you
pipelines and gas fields..
with a side of naval and military bases

with just a hint of going broke at home

MrSpad
For people who really unstand geo-politics and the way global diplomacy works, the US and EU have played this brilliantly. By not taking the Russian bait and making military threats or going overtly hawkish they have managed to gather global support and take the air out of Russia's ability to rally anyone to its support. At the same time the symbolic gesture of sending aircraft to Poland is a very low key way of reminding Russia that US and NATO have more than enough military power to deal with it if they so wished. Of couse the real power the West has is global support and economic weapons. Even only minor actions will cost Russia nearly everything it has worked to build. By playing the long game the West is looking to remove Putin and his kind for good and never have to fire a shot to do so. In fact it will be the Russians themselves that do it. When both the rich and the poor unite against you because your actions have wrecked the economy you know you will have trouble.

And Russia now has to deal with Crimea at every turn. That IMF loan Russia was asking for? what about Crimea, the G-8 buisness you wanted? What about Crimea? Trade with rest of the world? What about Crimea? Those navy ships you want to buy from France? What about Crimea? That drone tech you wanted from Israel? What about Crimea? Anything you want support for in the UN? What about Crimea? And in the mean time, the US regains its global high ground, NATO gains new members, Russia becomes and isolated economic black hole. Russia has even put China in a position that it can not support it because of the implications for Tibet.

Putin has screwed Russia big time. He banked on the West being reckless and he was wrong. Nobody plays the diplomatic game better than the US.

I hope more people read your posts than the stars indicate..
I always find your posts to be rational, informative and on the money.

keep up the good work.

AnAbsoluteCreation
You guys are really misjudging the situation. Russia WILL back down or it will prove to be a catastrophic mistake for the country.

Now Germays Merlel, who has the closest relationship with Putin is giving altamatums.

This is not good for Russia.

It's starts...

Goldman Sachs revised its prediction for Russian economic growth this year down to 1 percent from 3 percent, blaming the tension over Ukraine for fuelling capital flight that would cripple investment. It said $45 billion had already left Russia this year, mostly Russians stashing money abroad.

The Russian stock market hit a four-and-a-half-year low on Thursday and is down 20 percent since mid-February. The cost of insuring Moscow's debt against default rose to its highest level in nearly two years.

AAC

edit on 13-3-2014 by AnAbsoluteCreation because: (no reason given)

Perhaps that means Russia could seriously benefit from a war. War is beneficial economically when done once in a great while, it was WW2 which rescued America from the Great Depression.

So we are threatening people who are the most likely to benefit from a war, with a war... lol... that will go real well since we are about warred out. You cannot sustain a perpetual state of war, which is what we have been in.

What is most likely to hurt us - war - is most likely to benefit Russia.

Can't wait until tomorrow to see what Douche Campbell has to say!!!

Be even better if Mr.Putin had a big speech about it all sometime tomorrow as well!!!

This is gonna be so predictably backtracked by the West! IMO!

Hey even if the US do impose sanctions I can't see the EU following suit!

I think they're sick of being dragged into the US imperialism... they've been there, done that & sold the T-Shirts to Presidents for nearly 300 years!!!
I'm sure it's boring for them, America's best hope is the UN... C of 13 still have some pull with them!



Peace!

xuenchen

If Russian-backed lawmakers in Crimea go through with the Sunday referendum, Kerry said the U.S. and its European allies will not recognize it as legitimate under international law.

The U.S. and Europe on Monday would then unite to impose sanctions on Russia, Kerry told a Senate Appropriations subcommittee Thursday during a hearing on the State Department's budget.

Funny how they simply "assume" the vote in Crimea will go for annexation.

From what Kerry said, he would not recognize any vote even if they vote to stay with Ukraine !!!!

But just the same, it looks like it's a "go to Russia" with a 95% "Yes".

Now we will see who is chicken.

What if Texas had a referendum to re-join Mexico, and the Mexican Government said that they reserved the right to enter Texas to "protect the right of 'Mexican' speakers and the interests of Mexico"? Which is an analogy of what Russia is claiming in Crimea right now.

What do you think the federal government would do? What would American citizens across the nation be doing and saying?

reply to post by Leonidas


I don't know.

But it would probably violate The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

I think it's Monday already. I doubt Putin got up this morning with pangs of fear and stress over what Kerry may figure comes after "or else".

So much for that dumb idea. The only thing worse than making ultimatums....is making empty ones. However this deadline idea got started...there it is ..and there is went. Nice miss.

xuenchen
reply to post by Leonidas

 

I don't know.

But it would probably violate The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

...and?

You don't think that a number of treaties and international law is being violated in Ukraine right now?

Putin claiming he has the right to enter Ukraine to protect ethnic Russians in the region is similar to Hitler claiming Germany had the right to enter the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia to protect ethnic Germans in 1938.

Remind me how that turned out for the world.

Leonidas

xuenchen
reply to post by Leonidas

 

I don't know.

But it would probably violate The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

...and?

You don't think that a number of treaties and international law is being violated in Ukraine right now?

Putin claiming he has the right to enter Ukraine to protect ethnic Russians in the region is similar to Hitler claiming Germany had the right to enter the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia to protect ethnic Germans in 1938.

Remind me how that turned out for the world.

Maybe some treaties between Russia and Crimea out weigh some international agreements. Don't know.

But I believe Russia may have the right of high military presence in Crimea because of treaties and payments?

reply to post by xuenchen



They don't.

The Crimean peninsula is sovereign Ukrainian territory.

Over the centuries the region has been under the influence of different empires, countries and governments. Much like most of North America. But Crimea is Ukrainian. Khrushchev confirmed it's sovereignty in 1954 by confirming it is part of Ukraine.

I understand WHY Russia has great concerns about who is making decisions over Crimea, they have coveted the warm water ports their since the time of Peter the Great. Because the Ukrainian people are asserting their independence and a desire to more closely align themselves with Europe, Moscow is concerned this could lead to them losing the right to house part of their navy there. In current Russian thinking, aligning with Europe is a total repudiation with Russia and their history. It doesn't have to be and Ukraine has made that clear.

Just as America has bases on foreign soil all over the world, Ukraine is willing to allow the Russian Navy to maintain it's base at Sevastopol. However, Moscow feels the only way to secure their military bases on the peninsula is with a subservient government in Kiev.

Russia has no right to invade Ukraine, of which Crimea is a part.

There are many possible non-military solutions to this crisis that could satisfy all nations involved. Given time, I am sure that is what will happen as long as nothing drastic happens in the interim.

The Russian position is understandable, but that doesn't make it right.

Leonidas
There are many possible non-military solutions to this crisis that could satisfy all nations involved. Given time, I am sure that is what will happen as long as nothing drastic happens in the interim.

The Russian position is understandable, but that doesn't make it right.

There is no right and wrong here, there is much more at stake than that.

Interpreting history the way you do, is basically just mumbo jumbo ... such arguments have been used, to "divide" nations, for the last 100 or so years. But it is merely a political decision, to divide countries ... with some historical background, and very fuzzy ethnic background. Such politics will always find some willing ears ... but that does not underline it's legitimacy.

Ukraine, Kiev, was a part of a country, that made up a huge empire with Scandinavia. Although not directly a part of Scandinavia, it was an extension to it, and Ukraine was a huge part of the trade that took place inside that empire. The Russians, ended the Scandinavian empire ... and basically murdered all the inhabitants of Ukraine, and since then it's been Russian. Russians, despite the name ... are NOT the descendants of the Scandinavians who built the empire or their trade partners who made up Ukraine, and are the basis for that name. They aren't even related. The slavs, in Ukraine and Russia are those who "inhialated" them ... and since then these countries have been a part of Russia, not merely in name or on paper, but functionally as well.

So, this is an area that has a real history ... but the ethnic group that lives there now, has their history with Russia weather they like it or not. With some turkish and other ethnic groups thrown in for good measure.

And the political mumbo jumbo that is being plaid by Europe and the US, is merely a "divide and conquer" politics. Where they are playing on people's emotions, without revealing the details. Then, people wouldn't understand the details anyway. I know I don't ... I can sure understand the people wanting a better life for themselves, and thus wanting to distance themselves from Russia.

That said, Putin is an old KGB guy. He's not a military man, and he's unlikely to go into an open war. A limited war, yes ... but he is unlikely to even want to do anything with conquering Ukraine. Whatever his reasons are, they are 99% certain to be of tactical nature, than have anything to do with conquering territories. Most likely he's ensuring weaponry of old Soviet and after, do not fall into the hands of Ukraine nationals, and the gas lines that are important to Russian interrests.

No matter what your emotions are, nationalistic mob like the one in Ukraine, are not reliable as a government.

So, my suggestion is ... since the Russians have real interests to defend. Cool off, and play this politically and carefully ... there are lives at stake.

bjarneorn

Leonidas
There are many possible non-military solutions to this crisis that could satisfy all nations involved. Given time, I am sure that is what will happen as long as nothing drastic happens in the interim.

The Russian position is understandable, but that doesn't make it right.

There is no right and wrong here, there is much more at stake than that.

Interpreting history the way you do, is basically just mumbo jumbo ... such arguments have been used, to "divide" nations, for the last 100 or so years. But it is merely a political decision, to divide countries ... with some historical background, and very fuzzy ethnic background. Such politics will always find some willing ears ... but that does not underline it's legitimacy.

Ukraine, Kiev, was a part of a country, that made up a huge empire with Scandinavia. Although not directly a part of Scandinavia, it was an extension to it, and Ukraine was a huge part of the trade that took place inside that empire. The Russians, ended the Scandinavian empire ... and basically murdered all the inhabitants of Ukraine, and since then it's been Russian. Russians, despite the name ... are NOT the descendants of the Scandinavians who built the empire or their trade partners who made up Ukraine, and are the basis for that name. They aren't even related. The slavs, in Ukraine and Russia are those who "inhialated" them ... and since then these countries have been a part of Russia, not merely in name or on paper, but functionally as well.

So, this is an area that has a real history ... but the ethnic group that lives there now, has their history with Russia weather they like it or not. With some turkish and other ethnic groups thrown in for good measure.

And the political mumbo jumbo that is being plaid by Europe and the US, is merely a "divide and conquer" politics. Where they are playing on people's emotions, without revealing the details. Then, people wouldn't understand the details anyway. I know I don't ... I can sure understand the people wanting a better life for themselves, and thus wanting to distance themselves from Russia.

That said, Putin is an old KGB guy. He's not a military man, and he's unlikely to go into an open war. A limited war, yes ... but he is unlikely to even want to do anything with conquering Ukraine. Whatever his reasons are, they are 99% certain to be of tactical nature, than have anything to do with conquering territories. Most likely he's ensuring weaponry of old Soviet and after, do not fall into the hands of Ukraine nationals, and the gas lines that are important to Russian interrests.

No matter what your emotions are, nationalistic mob like the one in Ukraine, are not reliable as a government.

So, my suggestion is ... since the Russians have real interests to defend. Cool off, and play this politically and carefully ... there are lives at stake.

edit on 17/3/2014 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)

I would be happy to clear up any Mumbo-Jumbo that may have inadvertently caused confusion. I have had significant vested interest in the region for decades and know the people and the politics very well. Including how fast they are changing and how rooted in history they are at the same time.