Bob Crow, Leader of the RMT Dies Suddenly

reply to post by Nolimits


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As for Unions, the simple fact is that if it weren't for them lots of us would still be in the Workhouse.
That is a fact that very few would even attempt to deny.
Yes, they have had their faults, and no doubt still do - but they are the only organisation who are actively trying to IMPROVE the lot of the working man. ALL the major political parties want to at best maintain the status quo or at worst turn back the clock to Victorian times along with all the social injustices and inequalities that existed then.
As said before, withdrawal of labour is the ONLY tool the working man has, the law is heavily loaded on the side of the employer.
That may sit right with you, it doesn't with me.

The inconvenience caused by the withdrawal of labour highlighted the cause of RMT membership and settlement reached.

You talk of bullying, Thatcher destroyed whole communities and industries just to prove she had a pair of balls and played her part in an agenda that was set out years earlier by those who really pull the strings.
Now that's something more than just an inconvenience.

You advocate sacking strikers.
Very Victorian.
And if that did happen what would be the result.
People whose priority is to clothe and feed their dependants would take their jobs, at much reduced rates of course and worse conditions.
Sacked strikers out of work becoming a burden on society. Of course they'd be denied benefits so what option remains, the workhouse again?
Wages in general go down, people have less discernible income, no-one's spending anything - who gains then in that scenario?

All people want is a decent days pay for a decent days work - why is that so hard to understand?

Bob Crow wasn't perfect - but at lest he tried to stand up for his membership and the working man - I admire him for that.

reply to post by Nolimits

Gladly, he openly told the world she can rot in hell. Now forgive me, but you would never go to anyone else's grieving family and tell them their loved one should rot in hell, but we're talking Bob Crow, a bullyboy marxist.

He didn't 'go to anyone else's grieving family and tell them their loved one should rot in hell', he was asked his thoughts on Thatcher by a journalist a day or so after her death.
Not quite the same thing by any stretch.
And what would you have had him do? Lie and tell of his respect for her when that was blatantly untrue?
Thatcher was very much a public figure, by her choice, you take the rough with the smooth - and I'm sure she was aware of that.

By using the population of London as his pawn in his little blackmailing game.

The population of London, and everywhere else for that matter, are used as 'pawns' every single day.
You call it blackmail, I call it using due legal procedure to protect workers conditions and pay.
And you accuse people of blackmail yet openly support exploitation, hmmm.

Do you have any idea of the effect that these strikes cause? Of course you don't.

And how do you know that?
But its hardly the equivalent of destroying whole industries and communities is it?

She fought back in the same way she was fought against.

No she didn't, she abused her powers throughout The Miners Strike and many other confrontations with people she was intent on bullying.
I could go into great detail clearly showing exactly how she did this, but first of all could please explain your reasoning behind that statement - how was she 'fought against'?

Be grateful she didn't go the whole hog against you lot.

What exactly is 'the whole hog' she could have gone?
And who exactly are 'you lot'?

Tax avoidance is legal too. Doesn't make it right.

Ironic really given that the biggest culprits of tax evasion and avoidance are the very people who oppose the Unions and wish to see further erosions of workers rights and a return to the Victorian times that both Thatcher and Cameron publicly aspire(d) to.

Unless the left is responsible, of course.

An example?

We'll get back to the question of bankers shortly.

Really, when?

I'm sure you do, but once again you do not have to live with the effects.

First of all, how do you know that?
I've 'lived with the effects' of a few strikes - they were an inconvenience, at times even a minor hardship.

A decent deal at the cost of the service user.

That's the general idea, they were making a point. An effective one as subsequent strikes were called off pending a full review of ticket office closures by London Underground.

Typical leftism.

I'm a 'typical leftie'?
You really do like pigeon holing people don't you.
You know absolutely nothing about me and assume much by your stereotyping by textbook.

Oh look, your bitter northern side has come out to play.

The only bitter northern thing about me is the John Smiths Extra Cold I was drinking last night.

That's exactly the reason why the north is such a dire place.

Really?
Sure, its been exploited, under invested, neglected and parts even completely abandoned, but we still like a smile and a laugh and we have some the most beautiful countryside in all The British Isles - hardly dire.
Have you ever been 'Oop North' - just past Watford does not constitute 'The North' - (those signs on the motorways always make me smile).

Too busy blaming the south.

No, just the London / Home Counties centric nature of UK politics and economics.

Newsflash, poverty in certain parts of London makes the Northern whinging counties look ideal but your blinkered victim complex will never let you understand that, let alone travel to such places to see them for yourself.

Again, have you been to some of these 'Northern whinging counties' to enable you to give a fair and balanced comparison?
I assure you, my opinions are based on first hand experience, are yours?

I know you have NO idea of the hardship most, if not all the non central portions of London, and those areas which are not the most affluent areas of the home counties endure.

You KNOW I have NO idea?
Well guess what, wrong!
Credibility took a bit of a bash there I'm afraid.
More assumptions - and wrong again.

It is pathetic, cringeworthy, and quite frankly enough to make me a regional separatist

Well, that's two of us.
Reading some of your posts really tempts me to want to take up the many offers we receive to join Scotland if they gain independence.
Fortunately I know enough people in 'The South', in 'real life' and here on ATS, to know that not all Southerners are as ignorant, arrogant and self-opinionated - only most of them.

when I see the utter self serving, grandstanding hate coming from the North.

You accuse 'us' of being 'self-serving' and 'grandstanding hatred' - does the irony of that really escape you?

Of course, you'll never admit Thatcher was a born and bred Northerner though.

We true Northerners like to pass her off as coming from The Midlands - East Midlands to be exact.
Thing is, no-one wants to claim her.

Conviction. The only conviction he had was to make as much personal wealth as possible, with the employees as a fortunate after effect and to hell with the lives of the service users.

Even his biggest foes across the negotiating table respected his strength of conviction and his determination to try and get the best deal possible for his members.
Seems you know better though.
As for personal wealth, yes, he got a very good wage. Pails into insignificance when compared to the salaries of the executives he faced in his negotiations etc. If he was motivated by money alone he would have done what many Union officials have done and turn gamekeeper and change sides - or simply take the discreet back hander to sell his membership out. No-one could ever accuse him of doing either - hence, a man of conviction.
Guess you just don't get that.

Except for the bit where the unions crippled the heavy industries of this country. All of them gone because the unions wouldn't get with the times. Shipbuilding? Gone. Car manufacturing? Gone. Mining? Gone. The unions HAVE succeeded, but only because there are no more hard workers to fight for anymore.

This really deserves a thread in itself.
Its far too large and complicated an issue that it can't possibly be addressed here.
Suffice to say I disagree with the vast majority of what you have posted.
Again I'll ask, what personal experiences do you base these opinions on?
I lived through the Thatcher years, can remember the Three Day Week etc - did or can you or is it based on MSM reports and textbooks etc?

We had to become more competitive. That isn't Thatcher's fault. It's the way of the world. Germany managed it just fine, christ even France did a better job. But not here, because the union men didn't get what they wanted, even though what they wanted was totally unfeasible.

That is so much nonsense.
Thatcher refused to subsidise the British coal industry any more and as a result there was a pit closure plan drawn up.
She manipulated events to force the miners in to a corner.
To justify the pit closures she bought coal cheaper from abroad - Germany and Poland.
The German coal industry was always very heavily subsidised, (something Merkel has only recently promised to change), far more than the UK industry ever was.
Poland was a communist state at the time - their coal industry was 100% subsidised.
So she justified not subsidising our coal industry by buying heavily subsidised coal from other country's, one being a communist state, communism being something she allegedly so passionately hated and opposed at every opportunity. Didn't stop her from using it though to further her own ends did it.
Massive hypocrisy and double standards.

Bob Crow wasn't perfect, who is?
But he was a man of conviction - I raised a few glasses to him last night.

As a mark of respect to the sudden death of Bob Crow, the RMT Union leader, all trains will be observing a 3 minute delay to their service.

Nolimits

SprocketUK
reply to post by Nolimits

 

LMAO I'll have some of what you're smoking mate. It must be incredible stuff!
Anyway, during my time on the railway, I was safer and better paid because Bob Crow was who he was.
I'll miss him just as loads of other people will. Hate his politics all you want, but unlike the muppets in Westminster, he actually tried to do the best for the people who voted for him. Not too many people can say that when all's said and done.

I do not smoke drugs, but the fact that you claim to and also work on the railway is deeply concerning.

And like bob crow, you didn't give a flying # about the next man, only yourself, what you can get out of it, how much more you can screw from the passenger.

I'll hate him, and his politics, and any of the scum who espouse his politics. until the day I breath my last breath.

Try really hard to find anything where I claimed to smoke drugs. You won't be able to because like so much else it's a fantasy. Or maybe you have English as a second language? That might explain the way you ramble on.

You also have s lot of neck to try and insinuate I don't care a fig for anyone but myself. Being in a union means standing by others to ensure everyone gets a fair crack. Selfishness is your creed as espoused by Maggie many moons ago.
You need to tone down the personal stuff or you'll get the thread deleted.
There's no point in being so vitriolic, all you do is make yourself look bad and bring negative replies like this one.

I get that you believe in free market capitalism, but your reasoning isn't going to ever convince anyone of the rightness of your opinion.
Think it through, take a breath and try and get your point across without re hashing daily fail commentaries, calling people scum or druggies and you might get a better response.

SprocketUK

Nolimits

SprocketUK
reply to post by Nolimits

 

LMAO I'll have some of what you're smoking mate. It must be incredible stuff!
Anyway, during my time on the railway, I was safer and better paid because Bob Crow was who he was.
I'll miss him just as loads of other people will. Hate his politics all you want, but unlike the muppets in Westminster, he actually tried to do the best for the people who voted for him. Not too many people can say that when all's said and done.

I do not smoke drugs, but the fact that you claim to and also work on the railway is deeply concerning.

And like bob crow, you didn't give a flying # about the next man, only yourself, what you can get out of it, how much more you can screw from the passenger.

I'll hate him, and his politics, and any of the scum who espouse his politics. until the day I breath my last breath.

Try really hard to find anything where I claimed to smoke drugs. You won't be able to because like so much else it's a fantasy. Or maybe you have English as a second language? That might explain the way you ramble on.

You also have s lot of neck to try and insinuate I don't care a fig for anyone but myself. Being in a union means standing by others to ensure everyone gets a fair crack. Selfishness is your creed as espoused by Maggie many moons ago.
You need to tone down the personal stuff or you'll get the thread deleted.
There's no point in being so vitriolic, all you do is make yourself look bad and bring negative replies like this one.

I get that you believe in free market capitalism, but your reasoning isn't going to ever convince anyone of the rightness of your opinion.
Think it through, take a breath and try and get your point across without re hashing daily fail commentaries, calling people scum or druggies and you might get a better response.

I refuse to take advise from a leftist.