Russia’s information warriors are on the march – we must respond

Russia’s information warriors are on the march – we must respond - A robust campaign to tell the truth about Crimea is needed to counter Moscow’s lies

'Russian television news is reporting…” Nowadays, when I hear those words pronounced on the BBC or ITN, I can’t help but wince. Over the past 10 days, Russian television news has reported, among other things, that 675,000 Ukrainian refugees have flooded over the Russian border; that extremists and neo-Nazi militants have illegally taken over the Ukrainian government in Kiev; and that Crimean “self-defence forces” or “pro-Russian forces” have spontaneously gathered in front of the Crimean parliament in order to defend it from those same Nazis.


Each of these statements is a lie: there are no refugees flooding into Russia. The queues of cars that appeared on broadcasts were found to be taken at a Polish border point, which thousands cross in any case every day. Nor have extremists and neo-Nazis taken over in Kiev: the elected parliament has now formed the government in Ukraine, following the president’s extraordinary decision to discard a negotiated agreement and flee the country.


Let’s be clear about the “self-defence forces” in Crimea – sometimes called “pro-Russian forces”: they are Russian troops. They are driving vehicles with Russian plates. Their machine guns are definitely not for sale at local shops. They have not arrived in Crimea to defend the local Russians from attack because local Russians were not under attack. They are there to create hysteria, to undermine the government in Kiev, and to persuade outsiders that the accelerating Russian occupation of Crimea is legitimate – and perhaps that the coming occupation of eastern Ukraine, or other parts of Ukraine, is legitimate too.


In this last endeavour, they may be succeeding. After all, the tradition in this country is to give the other side a fair hearing, so those lies being reported on “Russian television news” are often used to create a sense of balance on British programmes, too. Sometimes members of the Russian media are also hauled into the studio. Their views are gently contradicted by British reporters or anchors, but still: they seem so certain of what they are saying, surely there must be a kernel of truth? Doesn’t the real story lie somewhere in between? Aren’t they merely seeing the world from a “Russian point of view”?


Of course, the most important target for Russia’s new information war is not the British. The information warriors – or “political technologists” as they are now called in Moscow – care most about Russians and those who speak Russian. Huge numbers of Ukrainians watch Russian television: both eastern and western Ukraine are widely and easily bilingual. But although the Kremlin might not be able to dictate the way the story is told on British or European television channels, they would certainly like to help shape it.

Click link for remainder of article.

A good read in my opinion.

For those on the other side of the fence - A request.

Can you guys post rebuttals to the claims made and cite sources so we can compare? We all agree that the media coverage from the opposing side is suspect. If you guys can rebuff with that side of the fence maybe we can find some truth in the middle to find out what's going on.

It's a real shame, isn't it?

Lying through his teeth, just like TV sets do, in the west.

I'd rather see the whole thing burn, than turn out like US.

At least then, there would be hope for a fresh beginning.

Oh, and then anytime they 'put it to a vote', that's when you have real problems.

They would love a vote, wouldn't they.

Maybe one every year, or 6 months?

Like the 'smartest, most fit to run things' don't have those bases covered.

Who do we think set up that little referendum, hmm?
Lawyers never ask a question that they do not know the answer to. Pass.

If they make you fly a flag on the school, then burn the school down.

What part about Independent Ukraine do they not understand?

And if they tear down Ukraine, who is next?

Don't look to us for help, because the same element that captured amerika is trying to rope YOU.

East, west, same difference. You lose control of your destiny, on a very personal level.

Show you teeth, Ukraine. Remind Putin that Stalin is dead, and his ilk will never be forgotten.

# 196

TheWhiteKnight
It's a real shame, isn't it?

Lying through his teeth, just like TV sets do, in the west.

I'd rather see the whole thing burn, than turn out like US.

At least then, there would be hope for a fresh beginning.

# 196

To an extent I agree.

Its one of the main reasons I am asking those on the other side to post their version of the facts from their sources. Maybe we can find some truth in the middle somewhere.

Nothing, in other words, is as clear as the antagonists and their cheerleaders abroad would like. It is true that Crimea was part of Russia until 1954, and that it is a quirk of history that it is part of Ukraine – and yet also true that to invade it still breaches international law. Just as it is true that the Russians have not fired a shot in anger, while the invasion of Iraq left hundreds of thousands dead – but that doesn't make Putin's action OK

It's definitely a complex situation with both sides of the propaganda battle on full display. The US and UK media have also been culpable in not reporting the full story. From the make up of the new Ukrainian government to the recent story on alleged snipers. These stories seem to miss the net while we ramp up less important news going on the ground.
www.theguardian.com...

reply to post by Xcathdra


The news is nothing but lies........Even ATS is filled with agents of both sides playing games. The Pro-Russia crap seems so scripted. They are kinda easy to spot.



In the world of today it is very hard to figure out who is passionate and who is being payed.

SubTruth
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

The news is nothing but lies........Even ATS is filled with agents of both sides playing games. The Pro-Russia crap seems so scripted. They are kinda easy to spot.



In the world of today it is very hard to figure out who is passionate and who is being payed.

While I was putting my other thread together, where I linked to sources for the various incidents I brought up, it got me thinking that maybe we can do better.

Both sides are represented here on ATS as well as people who are on neither side. Instead of us going back and forth why not work together to the extent of taking the topic, producing information from both sides and going from there? Maybe we can get some valid information out of it and get a better understanding.

might as well give it a shot.. If it works it works, if it doesn't work we can at least say we tried.

As a side note - The titles of the threads are the ones assigned to the article itself. For those who like to accuse me of making misleading headlines - T&C require the use of the article headline. If there is a problem, take it up with the mods.

Ukrainian rabbi tells Kiev's Jews to flee city

Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman advised

“Kiev’s Jews to leave the city and even the country.”

Looks like the Israelis are even at it!

reply to post by SubTruth


Sure the news is totally political wherever you have tv, its always been that way except now we know more about it because we can compare foreign news channels to the ones we have at home.

I like RT because it often tells me news items that the BBC and Sky would censor, just little stories often about the small people who the state tramples on. Something not shown but I learned of it oddly enough from the House of Lords was that benefit in the UK can be cut and it was so bad for one lady that her milk dried up because she couldn't afford food. Apparently her local Benefit office had a chart up on the wall urging its staff to make as many cuts to people's benefit for whatever reason they could find - and she was obviously targeted. Had she had money from some other source, then she would have been able to afford food - so something was very wrong. To cut a nursing Mother's benefit when a baby is concerned should not have been through targets, it should have been through very close examination of the facts.

I am certainly not pro Russia, anti America or anti my own country, but I do believe in not being subjective to the news and I like to keep things as balanced as possible. I am sure there are others in the same boat.

Bellor
Ukrainian rabbi tells Kiev's Jews to flee city

Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman advised

“Kiev’s Jews to leave the city and even the country.”

Looks like the Israelis are even at it!

In what way if you don't mind me asking for clarification?

I took the article as nothing more than a country warning its citizens / members of the Jewish faith about possible upheaval. Like the foreign ministries in other countries when they issue travel advisories. There is a historical basis for the warning. I am guessing you did not take it as such? (< not accusing, just asking)

reply to post by Xcathdra

Its one of the main reasons I am asking those on the other side to post their version of the facts from their sources. Maybe we can find some truth in the middle somewhere.

Why is your source more credible than the Russian source???
As a rebuttal I would list all the lies (in bullet form) that the particular news agency you linked has told in the past 5 years but I only have 7500 characters to type so I could probably only fit 20% of them in.

As a general rule I assume that if its in any MSM or state run type media it is biased and propaganda, unless your in the thick of it or dictating policy youre never gonna know the whole truth.

It honestly makes me sick the condemnation the Russians have received over this yet the US and pals (sadly my country is 1 of those pals) can violate as many international laws as they like and you never hear a peep out of the talking heads

reply to post by Xcathdra


Propagating alarmist views over the rise of supposed neo-nazi elements within the coup on the Ukrainian government.

IkNOwSTuff
Why is your source more credible than the Russian source???

I think you skipped over a key item in my OP -

For those on the other side of the fence - A request.

Can you guys post rebuttals to the claims made and cite sources so we can compare? We all agree that the media coverage from the opposing side is suspect. If you guys can rebuff with that side of the fence maybe we can find some truth in the middle to find out what's going on.

I linked to the western sources. I am asking people to counter the article and provide their media sources for the other side of the coin so we can find a possible middle ground that might have truth to it.

I'm unable to take the western media seriously...in the last 14 yrs all I have seen is lies, lies and more lies to push their agender..and history shows me that in the end there is always an agender

the uk and us media are just full of crap that does not help the Ukrainian people......apparently 60% TO 70% of Ukraine people are in favour of Russia......but yet the west and its slaves say Putin is another adolf hitler and will destroy Ukraine...

has Russia oped fire on Ukraine?...no
has England done anything? ....no
has the us done anything?.....no
has the eu done anything?.....no
has nato done anything?......no

actions speak louder than words....to my understanding the only deaths are attributed to snipers....possibly from a third party with outside help both physically and financially....

once again.... only time will tell what the outcome will be...I pretty confidant that the western media is not psychic...have they ever been in the past?????.......no.....they only post after the event has occurred....then embellish .......

to be honest all that I'm seeing on ats is.....American opinion with links to uk and us media that have their agenders...political/financial ....

many of ats witnessed the lies for Iraq...Afghanistan...Libya ...Iran....Syria....to name a few....
I can't believe the lies any more.....

tri-lobe-1
to be honest all that I'm seeing on ats is.....American opinion with links to uk and us media that have their agenders...political/financial ....

Which is why this is in my op -
I linked to the western sources. I am asking people to counter the article and provide their media sources for the other side of the coin so we can find a possible middle ground that might have truth to it.

wow what a surprise the TPTB have us all questioning their actions so we can argue among ourselves,,,,wtf is the truth anyhow ?...is it not subjective to suit the agenda ?

what a crap world of lies and deceit we live in....

reply to post by Xcathdra

it got me thinking that maybe we can do better.

I read some of your previous posts on the matter, and what I could see is that you're heavily biased, supporting only western propaganda. IMO
By writing this post do you admit you made a mistake?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Im struggling to see your logic
You want us to post the article that the article you linked references???
What exactly do you think well be able to find out by reading and analysing 2 sets of BS?

It sounds like you want a clear picture of whos right and wrong (or more likely you are trying to prove what you are already convinced of) but I am sad to say I do not think you will get any satisfaction from this exercise.

Its about resources and money pure and simple, anytime theres a war or even just armies on the move it all comes down to $$$.
The west is trying to get its hands on whatever is in the Crimea and the Russians have stepped in and tried to take it before they get there.
Its not about terrorists or protecting any citizens, its not about democracy or joining the EU,
Its about oil, gas and bucks

reply to post by Xcathdra


This is an article you might like, it was published by the The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and written by none other than NED president Carl Gershman, published in Sept. 2013

Former Soviet states stand up to Russia. Will the U.S.?

Ukraine is the biggest prize, and there Russia’s bullying has been particularly counter-productive. In addition to the usual economic threats and trade sanctions, including a ban on the import of Ukrainian chocolates, Putin offended Ukrainians during a state visit in July, saying that they and the Russians were a “single people,” and that the Ukranians had flourished under Soviet rule — totally ignoring the famine of the early 1930s that Ukrainians call the Holodomor, or “extermination by hunger.”

Worth a read.

If you read the article it is bs propaganda stating that the western media never lies or omits news and uses the truth, that alone has alarm bells ringing, EVERY news agency worldwide has some agenda. Just another bs article the OP is trying to sway people with, wrote this thread wanting some middle ground and wrote another thread at the same time attacking Russia.

They must be paying you by the letter.

I read up to "the elected parliament has now formed the government in Ukraine," I don't recall the election but do recall the phone conversation about who the west wanted to install . No doubt there are other things that would pose questions and much of what is said we wont know for some time . The other recording about the snipers is quite telling as well .