being subjective?

does subjectivism exist? if we all have our own point of view, how can we agree that this exists?

I guess the scientific method tries to exclude subjectivity as much as is humanly possible. Testing and retesting theories should give one a more objective conclusion of the theory.

That's just off the top of my head, I'd be interested to see other members opinions

taoistguy
does subjectivism exist? if we all have our own point of view, how can we agree that this exists?

Edit-I think I misunderstood your question when I answered so I erased my post. Sorry.

We can not document subjectivity scientifically with any known technology available to the public as far as I know. If we could subjectivity would be objectivity.
Therefore subjectivity is in essence subjective in and of itself. However, we can note that subjective is an established word in the English language with an established definition.
This is objective.

reply to post by taoistguy

...how can we agree that this exists?

Subjectivity is subjective... therefore it can be agreed within oneself that it exists.

reply to post by taoistguy


one of the rules of law in AU is the subjectivity test. This helps to determine the mens rea of the actus reas. (mental elements of the physical act to prosecute)

what it means is applying subjectivity to the act, ie: putting yourself into someone else's shoes.

simply, it is considering what you would do if you were that person in the same situation. I don't believe it is accurate because, unless you are that person, then 'thinking' or trying to be understanding can never equate to being that person.

Subjectivity is also flawed due to the evolution of deviant theories. Subjectivity is needed to establish 'the reasonable mind' and considering human behavior a decade ago, comparatively with contemporary human behavior, you can quite easily see the dramatic changes with what was considered normal and what was previously deviant.

I would not rely on subjectivity for too much at all.

reply to post by taoistguy


subjectivity can be demonstrated simply take :

1000 randomly selected volunteers who do not know the nature of the experiment
20 jars of marmite

give each volunteer a spoonful and ask the simple question :

do you like the taste of this product : A YES , B NO

Q.E.D.

It's a confusing question. Because of the way that you worded your post, it almost seems that you don't know the basic definition of subjective. Yet I'm sure that you do. We all have our own point of view, therefore subjective exists.


It's like you're asking this: "If 2 things are not the same, then they are different, so can we know that difference itself really exists?"

It's sort of a self explanatory thing.

I wonder sometimes if Deja Vu is the same for everyone. You know how sometimes someone will see a pink Cadillac, then tomorrow they see another pink Cadillac and they say "Wow, Deja Vu." But no, my friend, that's not what it really is. It's a feeling that you can't put your finger on, not some absurd coincidence. Real Deja vu will stand up the hairs on your body, it's uncanny. I also wonder if anyone sees colors the same way I do, or experiences smells the same. What if chocolate to me, tastes like vanilla to another? It could absolutely never be proven, and I think that's what you're getting at.

Light defines itself and darkness. Subjectivity is defined as lack of objectivity, IMO.

Subjectivity sort of doesn't exist, like the empty set in math. Nothing can be communicated about its particulars except by telepathy.

reply to post by taoistguy

does subjectivism exist? if we all have our own point of view, how can we agree that this exists?

Subjectivity is another name we give the individual human body. It is the same as soul, psyche, spirit, consciousness etc. Subjectivity doesn't exist beyond being a word, but the human body does.

I'd say that our unique perspectives apart from one another is the proof that subjectivity exists. We have subjective (personal) viewpoints.

reply to post by taoistguy


Is there an infinite amount of perspectives?

Is infinity finite?

Conceivably, God can know everything, and that everything includes all/infinite perspectives. So, does God know infinity or finality?

If God knows everything and he learns something as soon as something new happens, again, does he know infinity or finality?

but is subjectivity a 'thing', or can we all not subjectively agree (or disagree) on it?

reply to post by taoistguy


It has to be a property of infinite awareness, if such a thing exists -- otherwise, if infinite awareness does not exist, then subjectivity does not exist.

Edit: To say it more clearly: If all awareness is finite, then there is only one true perspective of that finite awareness - thus, subjectivity does not exist.

If you are asking does awareness exist, is awareness a thing, then imma say: yeah, awareness is real.

reply to post by taoistguy

but is subjectivity a 'thing', or can we all not subjectively agree (or disagree) on it?

Objective definition of the word "thing" in the English language: 1)an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to.
2)an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being.

Yes, subjectivity is a "thing"

We can agree on this objectively due to existing objective definitions in the English language.
If you want to look further into it, examine the correlation of both the definitions; the word "thing" and the word "subjectivity" and you will also come to objective definitive agreement.

Any more "mind-boggling" questions today Tao

unb3k44n7
reply to post by taoistguy

 

but is subjectivity a 'thing', or can we all not subjectively agree (or disagree) on it?

Objective definition of the word "thing" in the English language: 1)an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to.
2)an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being.

Yes, subjectivity is a "thing"

We can agree on this objectively due to existing objective definitions in the English language.
If you want to look further into it, examine the correlation of both the definitions; the word "thing" and the word "subjectivity" and you will also come to objective definitive agreement.

Any more "mind-boggling" questions today Tao

edit on 3/3/2014 by unb3k44n7 because: (no reason given)

i love your use of semantics.

so, how can subjectivity be objective? doesn't that 'cancel' out subjectivity?

reply to post by taoistguy

so, how can subjectivity be objective? doesn't that 'cancel' out subjectivity?

I already answered this
refer to www.abovetopsecret.com...

anyways Tao I'm feeling rather understimulated with ATS lately. If you think of anything truly mind boggling or of great interest that I may apply myself to can you forward it to my voicemail

-83

reply to post by unb3k44n7


lol. well, that told me.

reply to post by taoistguy


An interesting topic.

IMO what is Subjective becomes Objective through communication. Communication can be through many means (for example symbols - as in the case of language)

So, Subjectivity is always there in the first place. Objectivity ensues if a means of communicating the subjectivity exists.

Language is a good example as thoughts and concepts can now be made objective (agreed by all) by means of words.

Now it is possible to expand on this concept. Let's say I can clearly visualise a cat sitting on the TV set. There is no cat but I am simply visualising it. Scientists will say this is a subjective experience since nobody else can see the cat. What if I then communicate my vision telepathically. Scientists would feel uncomfortable and say that I am nothing more than a charlatant or hypnotist and that there is no cat from the objective point of view.

What if I visualised a wooden rod instead and also telephatically made it visible to others. Scientific friends would again deny the objectivity of the rod and claim it was hypnotism in action. But would their view change if the rod hit them on the head ? I do not think it would. Sadly that is science for you.