Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

intrptr
reply to post by DJW001

 

Ironically, Putin's actions have put Ukraine on the fast track to NATO membership.

Ermmm, no NATO is doing that all by itself. If anything, "Putin" is countering NATO's ambitions. What do you expect him to do, surrender? Join the EU?

One big, happy New World Order?

um, hmmm.

Huh.. I must have missed it.. Can you link me to the source where it says in NATO's charter that its ambition is to control Russia?

If it were the case the Russians would never have been offered to join NATO, nor would they have allow3ed Russian military liaison at NATO headquarters.

The purpose of NATO was to secure peace in Europe by creating a common framework for members to work in. NATO is a defensive alliance. With Putin harking to the days of Charlemagne, eastern European countries will look to NATO instead of being annexed into Russia.

Everything Russia is doing is having the opposite effect.

reply to post by Zaphod58

You mean the defensive missiles that are not capable of shooting down anything but a theater ballistic missile, and not even get close to an ICBM? How is that a "threat to Russia"?

Respectfully Zaphod, I believe those missiles are "strictly defensive" as much as I believe press releases from the Department of "Defense".

intrptr
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

You mean the defensive missiles that are not capable of shooting down anything but a theater ballistic missile, and not even get close to an ICBM? How is that a "threat to Russia"?

Respectfully Zaphod, I believe those missiles are "strictly defensive" as much as I believe press releases from the Department of "Defense".

Since there are no NMD missile systems on the ground in Europe, its pretty much a moot point.

Secondly, as Putin has stated time and again, military affairs inside a sovereign nation are their own and do not have to justify their actions to anyone.

reply to post by intrptr


They're Patriot and ship based SM-3s. Now since you say they're not defensive show me their ground attack capability. They must have one since you say they're not defensive. Surely you can prove it.

yuppa

intrptr
reply to post by yuppa

 

And un marked russian troops(posing as ukranian militia)…

Thats what the western media is saying. Thats how I know its BS. You can repeat it as often as you like… is that why this thread has so many replies?

By the way, its spelled Ukrainian…

And to th eposter who think slavic is a "race" no its not its a ETHNICITY. Diffrent races cannot mate with another. Science!

Don't be so sure

reply to post by Xcathdra

…common framework…

A gentle euphemism for domination. Get 'em in debt, hold a gun to their head and force them to comply. Some "common framework". By the way, (NATO) is just one enforcement arm of the New World Order that Senior Bush referenced in that speech . Nothings changed.

Gotta go… sorry if I missed anyones replies.

@AP: APNewsBreak: Russian fighter jet makes multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea: t.co...

Things are escalating and fast.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Any defensive weapon has the potential to augment offensive weapons. If you can attack your enemy but they can't attack you it gives you a significant offensive advantage.

Breaking on RT:Kiev issues order to start anti terror operation

I am sure, I heard that multiple times today, but Turchinov signed a decree for it to start, makes it look more serious, just like every hour the Russian military goes up a notch on their readyness scale for combat.

#Donetsk: airport seized by pro-#Kremlin forces, #Ukraine forces can't land for anti-terrorist operation. TV companies are next in the line.

reply to post by john452


Except in this case you are stopping a very limited selection of weapons, and a very limited number of them.

renden

intrptr
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

You guys complain about the missile system yet have no issues telling everyone else Russia can do what it wants in its own nation?

Us guys? Those missiles aren't "shielding" anything. They are a direct threat to Russia. But they are called "shielding" just like Desert "Shield", before it became Desert "Storm".

Well, lets have Russians put up their own "Defense shield" in Mexico, and see how that goes.

Hey, that'll be all fair and stuff, right? We get to have our missiles in Eastern Europe regardless that the people of those countries didn't even get a chance to vote on it, but that's because they don't want US missiles on their land, but who cares about some people way over there? It's all about USA, not some 3rd world people somewhere who get to play Democracy as we tell them to.

There is no missile defense shield in Europe so im not sure what your talking about. Actually im not sure you know what your talking about. I can guarantee there will be though since Putin went off the deep end. Ill bet we have a rash of countries wanting to join NATO and set up defenses from Russia after this mess Putin created.

Main search keywords now are "national guard" and "junta"

It seems that Eastern Ukrainians have polarized against Kievs junta, and the so called "national guard", which are Right Sector Fascists legalized and armed by the junta.

These are videos of local Ukrainians stopping and disarming Kievs junta forces;

www.youtube.com...

Please point to a single Russian there, or the "green men", or any other non-Ukrainian in the mix.

In this video a junta truck attempted to smuggle RPG-18s, rounds for RPG-7, hand grenades and ammunition into Eastern Ukraine.

Truck was stopped by Ukrainians, both armed driver and armed guard were disarmed;

www.youtube.com...

Same here, just local people stopping illegal military operation by the CIA-Kiev junta.

ProfessorT

@AP: APNewsBreak: Russian fighter jet makes multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea: t.co...

Things are escalating and fast.

Well they could if they keep doing that agreed im sure there defensive sytems were armed so im pretty sure they didnt get to close but this could go bad very easily. Russia knows better then to enter a defensive zone on ships you just dont do it it leads to shoot downs and problems. Makes me wonder if Russians are looking for a war at that point???

asen_y2k

#Donetsk: airport seized by pro-#Kremlin forces, #Ukraine forces can't land for anti-terrorist operation. TV companies are next in the line.

That is kind of funny when you think about it. Something about broadcasting your plans to your enemy just before the attack. I can see them now hanging out of there helicopters thinking: well played, next time gadget, next time.

intrptr
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

…common framework…

A gentle euphemism for domination. Get 'em in debt, hold a gun to their head and force them to comply. Some "common framework". By the way, (NATO) is just one enforcement arm of the New World Order that Senior Bush referenced in that speech . Nothings changed.

Gotta go… sorry if I missed anyones replies.

I guess it worked for Russia for a long time in controlling Ukraine well until a better offer came along i guess. This is exactly the Russian policy im just surprised to see you mention it.

dragonridr

ProfessorT

@AP: APNewsBreak: Russian fighter jet makes multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea: t.co...

Things are escalating and fast.

Well they could if they keep doing that agreed im sure there defensive sytems were armed so im pretty sure they didnt get to close but this could go bad very easily. Russia knows better then to enter a defensive zone on ships you just dont do it it leads to shoot downs and problems. Makes me wonder if Russians are looking for a war at that point???

Well, they are making a really big mistake if they start targeting warships. Anti-air capabilities of modern US warships is off the charts. It really won't end well for them, unless they have a massed attack, with land-based missles, all fired off at the same time. A couple of planes are going to be feeding the sea, quickly, however.

Catacomb

dragonridr

ProfessorT

@AP: APNewsBreak: Russian fighter jet makes multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea: t.co...

Things are escalating and fast.

Well they could if they keep doing that agreed im sure there defensive sytems were armed so im pretty sure they didnt get to close but this could go bad very easily. Russia knows better then to enter a defensive zone on ships you just dont do it it leads to shoot downs and problems. Makes me wonder if Russians are looking for a war at that point???

Well, they are making a really big mistake if they start targeting warships. Anti-air capabilities of modern US warships is off the charts. It really won't end well for them, unless they have a massed attack, with land-based missles, all fired off at the same time. A couple of planes are going to be feeding the sea, quickly, however.

I was reading an article on YahooNews earlier describing how the west is falling back to their Cold War mentality. Now all the ME experts are being sidelined and the Russian experts and be dusted off taking a center role. What concerns me of course is reverting back to behaviors that were counterproductive and stretched generations. No thank you.

ETA: oh yeah my point is something tells me Russia's American experts never took a back seat and are well aware of our warships capabilities.

reply to post by Zaphod58


At this point in development it is a minor advantage. The real concern will come when the technology is advanced enough to stop any and all missiles. The MAD doctrine will then be obsolete in terms of ICBMs and a new and potentially more dangerous era will be entered. Though as I said defensive weapons only have the potential to augment offensive weapons, in theory it could be a positive development if in the hands of someone who could resist the lure of the new power they had been given but in human history defensive weapons have usually been used in concert with offensive weapons.