Misunderstandings about the Holy Scriptures

there are translation errors where the editors of the kjv picked the wrong meaning for a hebrew word accidentally. Some of these are quite important and problematic. and i could write books of posts on what these errors were and what they mean to christianity and it's critics. And there is at least one case where apparently church politics caused them to create a mistranslation in the new testament. the only mention of easter in the new testament is the passage where they had to talk to the roman authorities and the roman's were celebrating the pagan holiday of easter necessitating them to take that holiday into account in thier plans. all other verses where easter appears in the KJV are "errors" where the editors translated the work paskah as easter when it really means passover in hebrew. clearly they had the converted pagans in mind when they made that "error." but again a translation error is not the same thing as an error in the source texts.

another possible "error" in the translation of the new testament have to do with the use of hell, sheol, hades and gehenom and the meaning of certain hebraisms concerning the fate of those consigned to hell. the upshot is either the editors deliberately tried to portray a flawed perception of hell and damnation or through an incredible line of coincidental errors they made hell in to psychotic's dream of eternal torment and pain for those consigned to hell. it certainly would help to keep the flock in line. but it turns christians into approvers for something so malicious and evil that it shocks the conscious that any would approve of others being assigned that fate especially kin or loved ones.

the OT says what happens to the devil when he is thrown into hell. he is not writhing on the barbie on the front porch of heaven in torment. he is turned to ashes from within and even the memory that he existed is gone from everyone's mind. and if you follow the word "perish" through the bible "perish" is a bit more final than being alive and in torment on the front porch of heaven while your psychotic kin and friends and lovers clap with joy and cackle with evil glee forever as you burn.

reply to post by stormbringer1701



Alright one more time...

Do you know what the Passover is... im sure you must...

In Mark they eat the Passover meal, Jesus does the whole "this is my blood, this is my flesh" passage... and he is executed on the next day at the third hour...

Mark
1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

....

12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

13 And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.

16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.


www.biblegateway.com...

and the next day...he was put to death on the third hour... Mark 15:25

read the entire passage for context....

But in John... Jesus is executed the day before the Passover....

John 19

13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


No companion bibles and scholarly commentaries and books explaining Hebraisms and ancient figures of speech and biblical symbolism or numerology can change the day on which Jesus was crucified...

Its not a translation issue... and you can't scream context like all Christians do...

its just an error...

perhaps i should modify my assertion a little. personally i have not delved deeply into the differences between the four gospels too much because each was written from the memories of one of the disciple/ne-apostles. the nicean and other councils decided to include all of the gospels as divinely inspired but clearly as you said there are differences. but then if there weren't there would be very little reason to include them all. but understand this divine inspiration of the authors of the books does not mean that the nicean council was without error when determining canon.



and because the errors or maybe misunderstandings do not appear to be concerning the actual words of the Christ. if you want to go into the differences there are several others too. such as the location of certain sermons differ. and there are others. the question is on deeper study is there a way to reconcile them and do they significantly alter the truth preached by Christ?

you also need to understand that the bible itself said in the final days there will be a famine not for bread but for the very word of God. the translational errors i hinted at actually do emperil proper understanding of the word of God to a far greater magnitude than an incorrectly transcribed or related date. like the sequence of the final days. you get that one wrong and you have a 95 percent chance of being seduced by the anti-christ.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


Perhaps you misunderstand my intention here... I stated just after joining this thread that by seeing the errors in the book one "might" see the actual inerrant message...

As I've said before, the belief that the bible has no errors is dangerous... so much more then just a "stumbling block" so to speak...

This belief leads to judgement of other is nothing else... You've even pointed out the fact that there are plenty of "knucklehead" Christians, who of course are the nutbags they are because of said belief...

Straight to the point, anyone who tells you the bible or any translation of is "without error", either doesn't know any better, or is selling something...

Though... the teaching of Jesus is simple, and without error...

you know i am going to read it again and get back to you but it just occurred to me that there were two holidays in play at the time of the trial and crucifixion as i mentioned in the post before last. the issue may come from the fact that the kjv editors conflated the two perhaps deliberately for political reasons as i mentioned earlier. before going into the study of it i will hypothesize that passover and easter occurred a day or two apart and things pertaining to interactions with the romans had to take the pagan holiday into account. as i mentioned the original manuscripts are available and the hypothesis can be checked easily enough. if it is an editing problem it will not appear in the original manuscripts.

I'll have to delve into it later. not up to it at the moment.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


Theres nothing to delve into man...

the bible isn't one book, its a stack of them all smashed together over hundreds of years... depending on which you prefer they have varying number of books...

Theres errors... its a hard fact...

but read the sermon on the mount... or Luke 6

and find the error...




Edit:

but then if there weren't there would be very little reason to include them all. but understand this divine inspiration of the authors of the books does not mean that the nicean council was without error when determining canon.

You do know the Nicean council didn't determine the canon of the bible...Right??

The First Council of Nicaea was convened by Emperor Constantine the Great upon the recommendations of a synod led by Hosius of Córdoba in the Eastertide of 325. This synod had been charged with investigation of the trouble brought about by the Arian controversy in the Greek-speaking east.[20] To most bishops, the teachings of Arius were heretical and dangerous to the salvation of souls.[21] In the summer of 325, the bishops of all provinces were summoned to Nicaea, a place reasonably accessible to many delegates, particularly those of Asia Minor, Georgia, Armenia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Greece, and Thrace.

This was the first general council in the history of the Church since the Apostolic Council of Jerusalem, the Apostolic council having established the conditions upon which Gentiles could join the Church.[22] In the Council of Nicaea, "The Church had taken her first great step to define revealed doctrine more precisely in response to a challenge from a heretical theology."[23

iSomeone
But there are things you cannot learn by looking at creation. That is why the Creator, who loves us, and is the essence of love, has, in his time, inspired humans to write his thoughts down, and he has seen to it that they have been preserved.

But this is my point, if I told you I have been sent here by God to warn you of following the Bible because it's false, you'd just laugh at me. However, you're willing to trust whoever wrote the bible... because why?

iSomeone
So while, you can learn some about God on your own, by reflection and meditation on the world around you. You cannot learn everything you need to know. Of course, we will never ever know all there is to know about him, and even what we do know about him is just but the fringes of his ways, we can get to know him by reading the scriptures he inspired. The fact that they are infallible prove that no mere human was behind the authorship of the divine scriptures of truth, just as they rightly claim:

But they're not infallible, there are so many contradictions in the Bible. On top of that there is plenty of evidence that words have been changed and altered to better suit peoples needs, for example, King Henry VIII who changed the Bible so he could divorce and then marry as many more times as he wanted.

What makes you think they are truth, "as they so rightly claim"?

iSomeone
(1 Thessalonians 2:13) . . ., YOU accepted it, not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God. . .

You should accept everything I am saying, just as truthfully as the word of God.

Just because a man has said that, does not make it true. In fact it's quite scary that someone can just say "believe me like I am God" and you do, does it not scare you that a MAN has that power over you?)

reply to post by Akragon


Actually, again there is no error, or contradiction. You see the Jewish day started in the evening, and they worked on a lunar calender. The first month on the lunar calender was Nisan, and started on the new moon. The full moon, or 14 days later marked the middle of the month. Passover is on Nisan 14 (our March/April). It started in the evening and ended the following evening. So all the events transpired on the day of Passover, including the last supper, Jesus' arrest, illegal trial through the night, his being lead before Pilate, and his hanging.

Again this just shows a crass lack of understanding of the Bible, and ancient culture. Now are you sure you're the one that is making up these very twisted versions of so-called contradictions, or have you been spoon-fed these by someone else, who either knows no better (because they really didn't study) or are purposefully lying to you.

Now if you are really the one that is coming up with all of these (which I have heard a hundred times over), which I find it hard to believe. Why have you not done better investigation, or why are you purposefully distorting things? I wish to believe you have no clue, and are honestly copying these misguided statements.

iSomeone
You are misunderstanding when Jesus stated: "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." He was not stating that that exact day he would be in paradise, rather, that on that day, Jesus was affirming that he would be in paradise.

Akragon is correct. He didn't misunderstand anything.

You messed up the punctuation. It isn't 'truly I tell you today, ... you will be with me in paradise.

The quote is ... 'truly I tell you, .... today you will be with me in paradise."

Akragon is correct. You are wrong.

No one is 'sleeping in the tomb'. Souls have moved on to where ever they are going.

Jesus said He'd be in Heaven THAT DAY and so would the 'good thief' (called St. Dismas by many Christians).

Akragon
the belief that the bible has no errors is dangerous... so much more then just a "stumbling block" so to speak...

Agreed.

Like people thinking the earth is literally 6,000 years old because that's what the bible says.
That's a stumbling block to reality.

May I add - A lot of the error problem is on the reader - those who read the Old Testament as literal truth when in fact a lot of it is folklore and mythology and never happened. Many are fictional stories with moral teachings ... like a kids bedtime story. Totally made up but with a 'lesson'. Like Noahs Ark. Like Adam and Eve. Proven as total myths. Exodus is folklore. There were some actual events but nothing even close to what is stated in the Old Testament. Far from it.

Readers don't look at scripture with a critical eye. It's like they are afraid of offending God or they are afraid of the truth not matching their belief system. Or both. Take Joshua for example. The bible paints him as a hero of God. But look at his actions. He was a terrorist. He went on murdering rampages against people who didn't believe in God like he did ... and he would level peaceful cities, killing every man, woman, child, and animal. And then he'd leave the city a bloodbath. He didn't even take over the city and settle in it. He just left 'ghost towns'. Obviously the story of Joshua was written by his followers and they painted him as a hero of their God. I'm sure those peaceful people who were slaughtered by him would have written a different story if they had survived.

This thread fails to take into account that many of the things and actions mentioned in the bible have no to very little evidence suggesting they even happened. Some of these events like the Exodus of Moses should have boatlaods of evidence supporting it. Why is there no evidence of a large group of people wondering the desert for 40 years? That's a long time. Like people could raise 2 generations of children who grew up in the desert, yet there is literally no evidence of this happening.

Noah's ark is another example of this. The dimensions of the ark are listed in the bible, yet we KNOW for a fact that a wooden ship the size of the ark is an engineering impossibility. It would fall apart as soon as it was put in the water.

To hell with the contradictions. They are just the icing on the cake of the failings of the bible. When the accounts of the bible don't even match up with the historical record, it is wrong. End of story.

ETA: The passages in the bible talking about how there will be an assault on God and believers before the end times is just a last ditch effort of propaganda for Christianity to maintain relevency as people move on to other belief systems. The peoe who wrote the bible aren't stupid. They were aware that many religions came and went before Christianity. Therefore people would eventually move on to other belief systems and leave Christianity behind. What better way to keep the waning faith, but to scare them into continuing to believe?

reply to post by iSomeone

Actually, again there is no error, or contradiction. You see the Jewish day started in the evening, and they worked on a lunar calender. The first month on the lunar calender was Nisan, and started on the new moon. The full moon, or 14 days later marked the middle of the month. Passover is on Nisan 14 (our March/April). It started in the evening and ended the following evening. So all the events transpired on the day of Passover, including the last supper, Jesus' arrest, illegal trial through the night, his being lead before Pilate, and his hanging

Incorrect again....

Read the passage in John 19 for a bit of clarity... And I know how the jews kept time... thanks

In Mark it is the day of Passover, after eating the Passover meal... he is arrested, spends the night in Jail and "straight away in the morning he goes to trial and is crucified ON PASSOVER... In John he is killed BEFORE passover

13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.


IT clearly says it was the day OF PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER... and in the previous book Jesus died on the day OF PASSOVER...

Now you're just blatantly lying to cover your own lack of knowledge...

Again this just shows a crass lack of understanding of the Bible, and ancient culture. Now are you sure you're the one that is making up these very twisted versions of so-called contradictions, or have you been spoon-fed these by someone else, who either knows no better (because they really didn't study) or are purposefully lying to you.

Gonna have to disagree with you again... read the passages instead of looking for excuses for the clear contradictions

]Now if you are really the one that is coming up with all of these (which I have heard a hundred times over), which I find it hard to believe. Why have you not done better investigation, or why are you purposefully distorting things? I wish to believe you have no clue, and are honestly copying these misguided statements.

you believe whatever you want to believe... IF you've heard all of these before you'd have a better explanation for it instead of "attempting" to turn it back on me and what I know of the bible...

Typical Fundy Christian tactics...

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


You too saw the JW teachings?

reply to post by iSomeone


Good read

iSomeone
We both know that Jesus could not have been God.

I AM seems to disagree...

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!”

At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Jesus is the Word by which ALL things were created...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ~ John 1:1

Whoso despiseth the WORD shall be destroyed ~ Proverbs 13:13

ALL physical reality came into existence through Jesus...

Jesus SPOKE all physical reality into existence LONG before He was ever "born"...

...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. ~ Heb. 1:2

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. ~ 1 Corinthians 8:6

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ ~ Ephesians 3:9

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ~ Colossians 1:16-17

reply to post by Akragon

Akragon
Tell yourself whatever you like man...

Its nothing more then dangerous to believe the bible has no errors... Such a belief promotes the idea that its "all true, the word of God" which means every bit should be followed in accordance to its own rules...

And nothing good comes from that theology...

Remember what Jesus said.... Know a tree by its fruits

Remember what ELSE Jesus said....

“Every word of God proves true” ~ Proverbs 30:5

During CJ's face to face encounter with Jesus, He explained to her that we MUST believe God and trust Him to protect His written word.

This quote is the key point: "You don't believe my word the Bible." "It's My responsibility as God to protect My word for you."

A powerful testimony from a woman being interviewed by Nathan Leal. She tells of how she continued living her life in religious and self deception until she had a face to face encounter with the risen Lord, Jesus, who rebuked her and made it clear to her in no uncertain terms that it's either she was going to surrender all or nothing at all. On his terms, and not on hers. Her testimony will really challenge you to want to make sure your heart is in the right place and that you're not detracted by idols.

reply to post by Murgatroid

Remember what ELSE Jesus said....



“Every word of God proves true” ~ Proverbs 30:5

If you believe Jesus was speaking in proverbs...

You have more serious issues then dealing with the fruit of said trees

You can't just point to any passage in the book and attribute it to Jesus bro...

Not only is that completely dishonest to those that don't know any better... but its actually a ridiculous claim

Wake up a bit eh... LOL

Geez

reply to post by Murgatroid


Jesus wasn't born yet in his human body, therefore he did not write this verse.

“Every word of God proves true” ~ Proverbs 30:5

As for the encounter with "Jesus", many people see "Jesus" and he always has a personality. Spirits can play tricks on people, this is why Jesus said to judge by the fruits so you won't be deceived.

Its all interpretation now isn't it. "every word of God' would be the small still voice and inner guidance that leads you, as long as you're doing the work you came to do. Because giving into anger, primitive impulses, desires, and not growing your higher mind skills and learning how to stand still, does tend to make the cell phone temporarily disconnect. ie pineal like a cell phone, when you are lower frequency you can't dial the heaven/home/beyond number. Hence why the guidance of the blood covered power hungry elites is a massive distortion. Like isaiah 28 says, they're not meeting with angels, or even angel ets, but with the dead.

Every word of God has nothing to do with every word on a document or in a religious text.