Man kills police officer during no knock search warrant, believing it was a home intrusion

projectvxn
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

I'll be honest with you here.

I am heavily armed and trained in warfare.

This is one of my biggest fears.

I do not engage in illegal activity of any kind. I am also in the military. But what if they make a mistake? It's not unheard of that police doing no-announcement break-ins occasionally break into the wrong home. If that happened with me or my wife there would be someone getting shot dead and fairly quick. It is something I have thought about many times in recent years reading stories like this.

As a once and former 11B, I can absolutely relate to this. With 3 kids in the house my basic rule is anything that gets past or tries to harm the Akitas is going to be short on time for this world. It's like being in an urban combat environment, you're not checking ID's if someone else fires first, you're checking pulses after the firing subsides.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Unfortunately these have been going on for some time now. There are many a video on you tube, search no knock raids.

Innocent people and pets are murdered every day in this country, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? A no knock raid allows them to carry out their own brand of judge, jury and executioner, pathetic.

Most of these are over a safe, medicinal, therapeutic plant too.

reply to post by projectvxn

The you better hope you're not residing in Texas, brother. You can't shoot cops in self-defense there.

I can't believe this issue is not being immediately addressed by the SCOTUS. One declaration from them and this BS power ends for DAs all the way down the pike.

seabag
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

Not true. The story said the guy was a convicted felon who was believed to have stolen guns and drugs in the house. Convicted felons cannot be in possession of a firearm. I would not want to tip off an armed drug dealer/convicted felon prior to entry if I was a cop. I’d rather surprise him. In this case it didn’t work out but…

First, they didn't execute a no knock, no announcement warrant becuase of the drugs or the stolen guns. They executed it because he HAD a gun, as well as a supposedly ferocious dog. To show why that's critical, here is the fourth amendment:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I don't argue that sometimes a no-knock warrant is important in cases where the police believe the suspect will be violent. What I have concern with is that it was a NO ANNOUNCEMENT, as in they claimed they had the authority to just barge in and grab him without even identifying themselves as police. THAT is almost certainly what caused that deputy sheriff to lose his life because anyone on the receiving end of a forced entry at 6:00 AM will naturally believe it was a home invasion rather than the police if the police don't identify themselves as police. What also concerns me is that if the police are claiming they have the authority to smash their way in and grab people without identifying themselves simply becuase the household was armed and/or had a guard dog, they are necessarily claiming they have the authority to do this in every household regardless of necessity. So many people have firearms and/or guard dogs that it's an almost a certainty any household they have a search warrant on will have one or the other.

The police acted in accordance with the law according to the information you provided. I find it hard to believe anybody would have a hard time realizing it was the police entering the home. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court. I’m sure he’ll end up getting 20-life.

Yes, the police followed the law allowing them no knock, no announcement entry. The point is that the courts are now going to have to sort out whether the law the police followed is unconstitutional or not. Stop and frisk was likewise a law the police followed in NYC until the courts ruled that was unconstitutional as well.

Snarl
reply to post by projectvxn

 

The you better hope you're not residing in Texas, brother. You can't shoot cops in self-defense there.

I can't believe this issue is not being immediately addressed by the SCOTUS. One declaration from them and this BS power ends for DAs all the way down the pike.

I agree and you're among the first to look at where this starts for the problem.

After all, NO individual officer in his right mind and sanity WANTS to be first through a strange door, with no announcement and a criminal who they can reasonably expect will respond very very badly to thinking he's being hit by a rival dealer, home invader or some other violent crime. Heck..the cops through the door likely know and can never forget ..THEY would fire on 'them' if on the other side and taken by total surprise.

The damn system is set up to make No-Knock's Standard Operating Procedure and all but expected of them to use in a wide range of situations. There was the one in Georgia here not long ago where an old woman shot at least one of the cops and maybe it was 2 (not checking at the moment) before being killed herself. SAME thing.... It was a bad mistake, she had NO clue they were cops by what was determined later and lived in a very BAD neighborhood. Some idiot came through her door violently, and she had a gun handy to shoot him with ....the fact there were a dozen behind that one with guns wasn't visible I can assume.

...So heck, lets get some changes done within the system here. Even the cops may just thank everyone for it when THEY aren't having to be a part of some of this insanely dangerous crap, hunting for crimes of consumption.

Wrabbit2000

...So heck, lets get some changes done within the system here. Even the cops may just thank everyone for it when THEY aren't having to be a part of some of this insanely dangerous crap, hunting for crimes of consumption.

That's a good angle. Ask the cops how they like stacking up on doors for no good reason.

We've seen plenty in NY refuse to enforce the SAFE Act for this very reason.

I imagine such as with LEAP supporters many would find difficulty at the office for speaking out against this crap.

Along the lines of "if you didnt want to barge unannounced into strangers homes for plants then why'd you become a cop?"

Wrabbit2000

Snarl
reply to post by projectvxn

 

The you better hope you're not residing in Texas, brother. You can't shoot cops in self-defense there.

I can't believe this issue is not being immediately addressed by the SCOTUS. One declaration from them and this BS power ends for DAs all the way down the pike.

I agree and you're among the first to look at where this starts for the problem.

After all, NO individual officer in his right mind and sanity WANTS to be first through a strange door, with no announcement and a criminal who they can reasonably expect will respond very very badly to thinking he's being hit by a rival dealer, home invader or some other violent crime. Heck..the cops through the door likely know and can never forget ..THEY would fire on 'them' if on the other side and taken by total surprise.

There was a case in (I believe) Ohio where a perp likewise had weapons and apparently was also ready to use them. Rather than storming their way in like the marines on Iwo Jima liek these guys did, the police sent one single solitary police officer to knock on the door and tell the suspect that his car was severely damaged in a hit and run and asked him to come out and identify the damage. The suspect immediately panicked over his car being damaged and ran out to investigate, where he was immediately ambushed by hidden police officers. No shots were fired, no forced entry at 6:00 AM, none of that.

See the difference?

I still think it was bad tactical planning that lead to this deputies demise. It comes down to whos got a bigger * piss poor prior proper planning leads to uncertain results usually involving someones death or injury in a tactical situation. They could have done this a lot easier and a lot safer but they chose to do a dynamic entry at a disadvantage, the police probably saw the pregnant girl first and hesitated to shoot as ole boyfriend was already alerted by loud noises laying in wait and boom, barely crossed the threshold and low and behold his fatal front was not the imminent threat as he probably never cleared his corner.

Two words - jury nullification.

If I were on the jury, I couldn't convict someone for shooting persons unknown barging into their house.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I see the difference and we can compare cases all day long. That wasn't my point. I was noting that the individual uniformed officer didn't write the laws, didn't write the regulations and no one asked him his opinion. He just gets to follow and enforce them or find work elsewhere.

The political establishment writes the laws cops enforce. The politics are what determine the methods and procedures for enforcement in Ohio, vs Texas, vs Georgia.

The cop hate is so powerful among some, they vibrate with it and I've simply come to ignore those folks entirely, every thread. Not worth it. For the rest of us with various levels of emotion for or against police as individual people? Well... We can all agree this is broken and I'd imagine most can agree there is very mixed direction for why.

The BIG thing tho? You can change every cop in the nation. All 800,000 or so of them. It won't change anything. Not one thing. They'll be replaced by others who will be ordered to do the same things, by the same laws and under the same regulations. Change that system though, and end results change.

Theres no reason for a no knock entry.

At the very least they need to announce their presence while the house is surrounded and wait.

Wrabbit2000
The cop hate is so powerful among some, they vibrate with it and I've simply come to ignore those folks entirely, every thread. Not worth it. For the rest of us with various levels of emotion for or against police as individual people? Well... We can all agree this is broken and I'd imagine most can agree there is very mixed direction for why.

Funny ... most people think I hate cops. I don't ... but I know better than to call one on the phone. You cannot trust a cop anymore.

The biggest problem in law enforcement (and all of government FTM) is oversight. It's too easy to get a signature (permission) to do the wrong thing. Once that signature is on paper, it seems no one asks where it came from and why.

Focus needs to be put on mayors and DAs in a big way.

I'm just waiting for this to happen on a totally innocent person, they do a no knock warrant on the wrong house, the person in the house shoots and kills said cop, what will happen then?

The story said the guy was a convicted felon who was believed to have stolen guns and drugs in the house. Convicted felons cannot be in possession of a firearm. I would not want to tip off an armed drug dealer/convicted felon prior to entry if I was a cop. I’d rather surprise him. In this case it didn’t work out but…

reply to post by seabag


Surprise him huh? Deputy Adam Sowders, got the surprise he deserves. This isn't a military setting dealing with terrorist.(although, some people want/think it's like that) Their dealing with domestic Americans on American soil. If, you enter a dwelling without announcing yourself, You cant expect people to just stand down. The sh*t eaters made the mistake of thinking they had the upper-hand and element of surprise. Boy, were they wrong, huh? You cant really think not announcing yourself would be a good idea, can you? I cant see that ever working out. Especially, in the middle of the night. I mean they don't ever run in on pinned bank robbers, right away.. Only after all options are spent will they consider that.

The judge who signed the warrant disagrees with you. LOL

According to the affidavit for the warrant, Sowders received information from an investigator that Magee was growing marijuana and possibly had stolen guns, as well as other drugs inside his home.

We all know these gun-ready coppers embellish some to say the least to get a judge to sign off. And I disagree with this warrant affidavit. possibly had stolen guns, possibly? as well as other drugs. There was NO other drugs... Some plants? okay! I lay blame, also, on the investigator's information. He can tell the deputies family he's to blame and sorry.and all around effup! If their going to live in a fantasy, that their military storm troopers, at least get your Intel right. IMO, The whole chain of mental midgets embellished to see this raid come to fruition. I am not sure if the gun was stolen. Two firearms were gifted to him from mom and grandad. Yes, he was a convicted felon. Which is a min mandatory 36 months. I guess the expendable life of their dep, was worth that.

I hold Judge Reva Towslee Corbett, responsible for allowing such a raid on shoddy, minimum, stretched, intelligence. Also, the manner in which it was served. (No announcement, give me a break) The Capital punishment charge levied against Mr.Magee needs to be swiftly dropped, straight away. He, im sure was in fear for his life and that of his female companion.

I find it hard to believe anybody would have a hard time realizing it was the police entering the home.

Oh, really? Have you ever been woken up in the night due to an armed home invasion? I have. This day, we all need to stay diligent. Some people are desperate and will do the unexpected. I'd like to think we still have the right to protect life and property. The ball was dropped from the onset of this broken Intel and the signing of a warrant,green lighting an unannounced armed home-invasion that would of been better served at a neutral daylight hour. I am sure they would of got alot further, with a midday knock on the door, inquiry. Maybe their deputy would still be breathing.

This raid (like alot of them) was over the top fueled by militarization of a domestic police unit. Served by a unit that assumes they could kick in a citizens door, armed, unannounced and have him lay down pleading for his own life. Their shock campaign back fired.

How is this a 4th amendment violation if they had a warrant?

Because the investigator juiced/spun, the information to suit their needs. Followed by search and seizure methods that should be questioned and changed. ANNOUNCE who you are!

Cops got what he deserved, and should serve as a lesson to all others who, blindly follows and execute orders against citizens, for petty issues in the Amerikan self serving drug war to fill your corporate prisons.

Hey LEO`s wake the eff up we the people are not your enemy, your are all cattle used for others ambitions, and have no one to blame but your own lack of intelligence and will to be accepted and follow orders, for the current hate you feel from the people of all countries and states.

Only when the `GANG` in blue goes back to serving and protecting and not imprisoning and enforcing will I ever trust one of the states hired assassins ever again other wise, just dumb roided out power hungry pricks who deserve nothing but the scorn they receive until there are changes from within, and earn the trust of the public to secure instead of terrorize us.....

SaneThinking

reply to post by DelegateZero88

You are so right, the margin of error of an innocent or law enforcement getting damaged collaterally is way too high, the flawed logic about this is that they are willing to take the high odds of collateral damage to law enforcement and innocents in the area into account and yet end with the conclusion of a no knock, in the hopes to bring one individual to justice at any cost.

The judge signing the warrant did not use common sense, the police that sought this warrant were not using common sense, what happened to surveillance, apprehension, good detective work and "Booking them Dano" the good ol fashion Miami Vice way?

Goes to show you that stupidity will reign supreme over common sense any day of the week.

phinubian

... what happened to surveillance, apprehension, good detective work and "Booking them Dano" the good ol fashion Miami Vice way?

They had to give all that up once they began hiring under IQ caps: Cops ban high IQ's

The best tactic the police can muster these days is to stack bodies at the door to catch bullets.

Protect your neighbors. Serve your community. Catch bullets in the face for the sake of the law.

Protecting the rights and liberties of everyone takes a backseat to the law.

reply to post by Snarl

Funny ... most people think I hate cops. I don't ... but I know better than to call one on the phone. You cannot trust a cop anymore.

You know? I hear this quite a bit and I think it varies dramatically by location. I've been many places around the nation in the truck where the cops were almost as much a concern as the bad guys at night for being hassled or watching for problems while I'd be parked outside a customer for the morning. Other places, I was quite happy to see one drive by occasionally.

Here locally? I have absolutely no qualms about calling police for assistance. Heck, I know a few of them and may end up having someone roll out that I know by name. I don't know them by bad contacts, so it wouldn't be an awkward moment. Some local cops I absolutely question for ability and professionalism in getting a job done right, but nothing for fear issues in the least.

(Our GI-Joe SWAT team can trade their M-4's for 9mm sub-guns any time they'd like to stop being a menace to whole neighborhoods at once..but thats a different matter). We don't have a full time SWAT that I know of, anyway. We have duty officers carrying gear in their units to change hats as called upon...and perhaps that's how it all ought to be anyway.

So I hate hearing how people are living with Police Departments they literally fear and that should never be the case. Single cops? Perhaps..they're human too. Including jerks. Whole groups by profession? That's always a shame to hear.

in the us a felon caught with a gun is automatically facing a felony with up to 7 years in jail max federal time. so this guy killed someone while he was committing the felonious act of being in a house with a firarm yep he is going to get the needle. was it right gor them to kick in the door without identifying who they were hell no! but this guy is still damned because he killed the cop while committing the felony

reply to post by GoodOlDave


He killed a cop and they let him live? That's odd.