Does Satan or Demons Exist in this world?

"God" doesnt allow none of that. It is the choices of man the brings him to it. I think it is your idea of what god is that is ridiculous.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Of course its allowed otherwise these animals wouldnt be able to hide behind a powerful church that buys off politicans judges and lawmakers. An omnipient god would have gotten rid of the breeding ground of pedophiles hundreds of years ago. Hohum...the list of casualties grows.

AfterInfinity
Without God, there is no Satan.

There is just God.
But when God forgets himself he acts like a devil.

WhoKnows100

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Dianec

 

I think the real demons are standing in our shoes, sitting in our seats, drinking coffee from our mugs. No greater monster has ever existed, than the human race. And that's the reality we're trying to avoid while looking everywhere but the mirror.

edit on 29-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

14 Every man is a beast by his own knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his melting is but falsehood, and there is no breath therein.

Jeremiah 10:14 The more that man thinketh to do anything well by his own wisdom, and not as God instructeth him, the more doth he prove himself to be a vile beast.

Exactly.
Who could have put it better? Wonderfully concise!

Shadow Herder
"God" doesnt allow none of that. It is the choices of man the brings him to it. I think it is your idea of what god is that is ridiculous.

Well, quite clearly, your God does, as it happens almost on a daily basis. The fact that your God chooses to do nothing about it shows he either doesn't care, or never existed in the first place to stop it - of which I suspect the latter.

Also - "doesnt allow none of that". Really?? Did they not teach you about double negatives in school? Honestly, some of you people out there need to read a little more.

I still think the surest way to answer this question is to call out Satan on a moonlit night. I hope he can salsa dance.

The Church's view on Demons 'has changed', the view of all major religons is that these people in the respective religous texts who saw or heard Demon's were in fact mentally ill. If you are seeing or hearing Demons good chance you are mentally ill too.

My view of God is that he is fundamentally 'good' and why he made a physical universe that would necessarily be full of imperfections and therefore evil is still a complete Mystery to me and 'The Brothers Karamazov'.

But in the end there must be some important 'reason' for God to do this. I feel safe in the knowledge that it must all be part of Gods plan therefore in some way God must be right and justified in his creation. I dont buy into the whole original sin thing as the downfall of Humanity. God made the Universe and it evolves to his calculations he knows what happens next and why he created such a world/universe. I cannot claim to know the mind of God. I can only claim to love God.

Meh I dont believe they exist, only reason people think they
exist cause of religion.People cant think outside the box.
Demons/satan exist only to get your ass's into church.
Could religion survive without a evil part to it?
Lets say if nothing bad happens to you if you dont
worship per se whatever god, what would people
do, would they have more followers or less,
without having to scare them or blackmail them?

I dont think I ever seen a "good" happy religion,
why dont they exist? I would think they would.
Come on "men" make up a new happy religion,
if l ron hobard can make Scientology, can
at least make a good ol happy feel good religion!

Reasons for demons to exist would be.
Drugs(also late flashbacks of drugs). also undiagnosed
schizophrenics(in which people think its a gift>)
And last but least, dreams/ night terrors which is people mistake
for demons, etc.

Human beings are just human beings, theres nothing good or evil
about them, its all a big giant lie in which man has made.

You would think we would have evidence of demons with
cameras/video, people be winning nobel prizes
for their discovery.

noonebutme

Shadow Herder
"God" doesnt allow none of that. It is the choices of man the brings him to it. I think it is your idea of what god is that is ridiculous.

Well, quite clearly, your God does, as it happens almost on a daily basis. The fact that your God chooses to do nothing about it shows he either doesn't care, or never existed in the first place to stop it - of which I suspect the latter.

I laugh at the lack of intelligence and knowledge in these responses.

You think that "god" is a being, a parent, a big brother here to watch over you and make sure you have lots of fun and if he doesnt give you all the petty, moronic, useless things you consider important in this world than "he" must not exist. What fools.

Just say, I dont understand, will not understand, and am too ignorant to understand because that is what you project in your responses.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


But I'm not ignorant. I know he/it doesn't exist. It's very evident in daily life. How could any being of such power and omnipotence be so callous and uncaring as to let all the horrors of daily life happen?

Why is it in the Bible he slays millions? Commands people to worship him and nothing else? What sort of egotistical, psychopathic madman is this god?

You say you laugh at those who don't believe - how can you NOT laugh at those who do? It seems insane from a rational, logical mindset to believe in something as f**ked up as a God.

According to Christian mythology(if you guys are so right all time), God created "Satan". Again, according to the story, he was the almighty god greatest angel, even greater then the others at times. However, someone like Satan, eventually falls off, ether because he gets upset and Jealous(reminds me of Yah Weh) of God's love for human beings. Or he banged Eve, which got humans and the snake kicked out of Eden.

Whats funny(from what I know,not entirely sure), is how the other two Abraham don't necessarily focus on evil ,Hell , orsymbols of punishment, considering that the "Almighty God" is that "SYMBOL" of punishment. Only Christianity has this dualism, that the other two do not have.

As far as I'm concerned, Angels are far more feared in some ways. Since they are gods hands and enforcers, and since Satan started of as an Angel... Not only that, God is said to "Destroy" the world at the final battle.

Nothing new under the Sun. Which is why I think many older civilizations, believed their Sun Gods to be "Devils".

Whats funny, is how the Sun actually will destroy the Earth...Althought that won't be for 3 billion years...If our people earned their wings by that time...Scientific fact!

Guess the Yah Weh, all punishing design, is much older then it looks.

Angels to me are more like...how should I say this in their language(just a joke)..."Wth is your problem?".
or "Again!"...Or " o I can't wait to see how you guys fix this mess up?"

snoopy11
The Church's view on Demons 'has changed', the view of all major religons is that these people in the respective religous texts who saw or heard Demon's were in fact mentally ill. If you are seeing or hearing Demons good chance you are mentally ill too.

My view of God is that he is fundamentally 'good' and why he made a physical universe that would necessarily be full of imperfections and therefore evil is still a complete Mystery to me and 'The Brothers Karamazov'.

But in the end there must be some important 'reason' for God to do this. I feel safe in the knowledge that it must all be part of Gods plan therefore in some way God must be right and justified in his creation. I don't buy into the whole original sin thing as the downfall of Humanity. God made the Universe and it evolves to his calculations he knows what happens next and why he created such a world/universe. I cannot claim to know the mind of God. I can only claim to love God.

I think it's a terrible mistake for the "church" to take this position on demons. In fact it goes against the very scriptures they claim to uphold. Not only that, by taking this position, the "church" is derelict in the duties they were assigned by Jesus. It's exactly this type of religious doctrine made up by humans that undermines the salvation message of Jesus.

With the seemingly never ending train of false doctrine being actively pushed by the church, it's no wonder people either don't believe in a creator, or outright reject him as a psychopathic mass murderer.

Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if a drug user didn't experience an unpleasant supernatural encounter. These drugs assist in opening portals. It's why these drugs have always had such a close relationship with shamanism etc. Take a person with whom the accuser has legal claim to, open up a doorway and what would you expect to find on the other side? Elmo?

According to scripture, humanity is on the front lines of a major spiritual war. What do people think the armour of god is for? A fashion statement?? Without demons, what exactly is the sword of the spirit supposed to be used for? Decoration?? No, Christians are supposed to wade into the conflict and go to work on the enemy. Instead, the church sits around like a bunch of impotent kittens, polishing their helmets, denying the enemy exists, and lamenting that God never brings a revival to their home town.

Meanwhile the black flame burns all around them. They are awake, fit, trained and prepared. They will massacre the church. The scriptures themselves even says so.

My apologies for the rant. It's not directed at you snoopy, but my fellow religious pagan Christian Pharisees. This ridiculous situation really winds me up :-(

Yes you're spot on in respect that an omnipotent, omnipresent creator would know what was going to happen. It's a great mystery indeed, and I look forward to enquiring about the answer at some point in the future. :-)

reply to post by UnderGetty


Excellent post! Spot on, and I also believe in that link between drug use and spiritual portals being opened. I won't comment on it any more than that, but in my experience this is true.

UnderGetty

1. I think it's a terrible mistake for the "church" to take this position on demons. In fact it goes against the very scriptures they claim to uphold. Not only that, by taking this position, the "church" is derelict in the duties they were assigned by Jesus. It's exactly this type of religious doctrine made up by humans that undermines the salvation message of Jesus.

**snip**

2. According to scripture, humanity is on the front lines of a major spiritual war. What do people think the armour of god is for? A fashion statement?? Without demons, what exactly is the sword of the spirit supposed to be used for? Decoration?? No, Christians are supposed to wade into the conflict and go to work on the enemy. Instead, the church sits around like a bunch of impotent kittens, polishing their helmets, denying the enemy exists, and lamenting that God never brings a revival to their home town.

Meanwhile the black flame burns all around them. They are awake, fit, trained and prepared. They will massacre the church. The scriptures themselves even says so.

3. My apologies for the rant. It's not directed at you snoopy, but my fellow religious pagan Christian Pharisees. This ridiculous situation really winds me up :-(

1. Is it though or is just an understandable ancient misunderstanding of mentally ill people ?

2. Some of us think it will be a real war and not a spiritual war at all. I think the armour of God will be handed out in due course. The sword of the spirit in my honest opinion describes a future weapon, used on those who take up arms against the Messiah at some future appointed time. In my honest opinion the Earth will be destroyed and those who survive will actually be taken to a New Earth somewhere in the galaxy using a spaceship designed by those who follow 'The Beast' but of course the ones who follow the Anti-Christ will never get to use the ship. You may say that is an overliteral interpretation of the Bible but how else will the Messiah return to Earth fully grown ? The clue again is in the Bible 'I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star'. How else will we get a new Earth under a new heaven ? If we discover a new Earth like planet and land there then because we have changed position in the galaxy the constellations will have changed and we will have a new Earth under a new Heaven.

We are on the verge of discovering such a planet already its only a matter of time before we have the technology to get there, the appointed time is drawing near.... but its not here yet...

3. Dont apologise you have as much right to rant about your opinions as I do and I like a good debate on such things.

reply to post by snoopy11


Oh I totally agree there will be a physical component to this. There is clear evidence that we are talking about extra dimensional entities that have their own technology and bring it with them.

The tower of Babel is a good example. Everyone knows these days that there are limits to how high you can build a structure and building a tower literally to heaven is impossible. I presume God is fully aware of this, and Nimrod was too, because they built it in a valley rather then on a hilltop.

So why intervene with the construction unless what they were attempting was indeed possible? It's possible that they intended to open a portal into the dimension in which heaven exists, not build a
"ladder" like we are taught to believe. Their plan was to physically enter heaven and attack God. If that isn't possible then the whole account is a waste of paper and time.

I seriously believe the ancients knew exactly what the tower was all about, and we somehow got sidetracked by the ridiculous notion that an all mighty creator got freaked out by guys building a tall, tall building lol!

UnderGetty

So why intervene with the construction unless what they were attempting was indeed possible? It's possible that they intended to open a portal into the dimension in which heaven exists, not build a
"ladder" like we are taught to believe. Their plan was to physically enter heaven and attack God. If that isn't possible then the whole account is a waste of paper and time.

Well I believe that Heaven is a place, but not in this Universe, its more fundamental than that.

Physicists have theorised that what existed before the universe was an 'imaginary' space-time the use of 'imaginary' in this case is taken to be at 90 degrees relative to our spacetime ie 'imaginary' numbers.

Some physicists most notably Roger Penrose think fundamentally this place was made of fields.

Electromagnetic - Gravitational etc.

But some think the only way to explain concious thought (including Penrose) is that there must be a field of conciousness that permeates this primordial space, an infinite field of concious thought.

I believe 'Heaven' is in the mind of God.

That God has made it perfect and that it is more fundamental than our Universe.

Perhaps what they planned to attack was the primordial space where God is ?

To elaborate further on Heaven I imagine it to be like a perfect form of VR or Holodeck where you feel, hear, see
but it is more perfect feeling, it is more perfect hearing, it is more perfect seeing than our physical Universe.

Although in the mind of God it would be more 'real' than our Physical Universe.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


"For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him." - Isaiah 51:4-5

This is why the bible also say "vengeance is the lord's" and to never get revenge (Romans 12:19)


Comparing it to a justice system,

God = Judge
Angels = Jury
Good Spirits = Civilians of the kingdom
Satan = The Accuser (the one who wants the judge to convict you)
Jesus Christ = Lawyer
Demons = Criminals

arpgme
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

"For the LORD is a God of justice; How blessed are all those who long for Him." - Isaiah 51:4-5

This is why the bible also say "vengeance is the lord's" and to never get revenge (Romans 12:19)


Comparing it to a justice system,

God = Judge
Angels = Jury
Good Spirits = Civilians of the kingdom
Satan = The Accuser (the one who wants the judge to convict you)
Jesus Christ = Lawyer
Demons = Criminals

Gods justice - just is.
What is IS.
Man cannot see what is - man imagines what should be.

Interesting thread. The way people interpret God and demons that is. Wisdom comes from time (experience, ancestors, trial/error, etc), yet there are still so many who discount God and demons because they don't make the world as they think it should be or some person represents it badly. To say people are delusional to believe in something so ancient and that has no limit to its capacity to be studied is short sided.

They exist within us all and they are also otherworldly. Look at the research by Stan Grof (one of many scientists who have studied it). We leave the spirit - come into body and struggle to regain it or succumb to something entirely opposite. That doesn't have to be through religion but something within remembers, and those who have experienced transcendence (or even near death experiences), understand that both exist.

A person does not have to be religious to study the bible - there is deeper meaning as you actually study (there are levels that are exposed as you apply it to self yet all seems quite surface if not integrated). Ive personally experienced this - and I'm not a hard core anything but rather seek to understand like most of you. It can take years due to our fear of exploring this wisdom (why we resist is thought to be due to the physical we become). God exists then demons exist - and both are certainly within and outside of us (as we are attracted to both and both are available to us/influence us).