Genetic Memory

reply to post by soficrow


Sincerely, I really do not have a problem with your position. Though to some extent (due to the fact the OP begins with a link). Your concerns are not related to the perspective I am presenting. Nature can present all kinds of obstacles to human existence that can result in dysfunctional humans.

The humans are not responsible.

Say a Star goes supernova and an enormous amount of Gamma rays are headed this way. In the time allotted we gather what we can and go deep underground.

Once it is finally over we surface and find an environment that has literally been sterilized. The conditions on the surface of the planet are so harsh, that the only food source are animals that live in the deep ocean.

In order to conform to conditions our ancestors become aquatic but before that happens there are aberrations.

In society today there are conditions that in the future may end up irrelevant. Just for the sake of argument consider the idea that a Doctor can be replaced by a robot.


Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai


RE: Your OP link. It explains that the concept of "Genetic Memory" is pretty much debunked.

...Nature can present all kinds of obstacles to human existence that can result in dysfunctional humans.

The humans are not responsible.

True - trauma and stress can create dysfunction. I will agree for the sake of argument that sometimes, said dysfunction might be inherited. Unfortunately, this is also the argument that Eugencists make for sterilizing and euthanizing defectives.

I will stipulate that any human who can conceive of "not being responsible" can also think about taking personal responsibility, and "changing their destiny." The very wonderful thing about epigenetic inheritance is that the effects are not permanent. This does not mean that change is easy - just that it's possible.

You might want to check out the concept of Ancestry Syndrome and liveandlearn's thread here.

If environmental stress can cause dysfunction then the problem is the environment not the individual exposed to the environment.

Your point is mute.

Kashai
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

So how does that relate to what we are talking about? Sounds more like a compulsion to infer superiority.

I guess unless I do everything perfect something must be wrong. That sounds like you are projecting and are full of yourself.

edit on 6-11-2013 by Kashai because: Content edit

No - I just don't understand what you are on about.

reply to post by Kashai

If environmental stress can cause dysfunction then the problem is the environment not the individual exposed to the environment.

I agree. I also know that many people, not just committed Eugenicists, think that an individual's inability to cope with environmental stress is evidence of "genetic inferiority." I don't agree - because the evidence shows that such dysfunction relates to level and duration of exposure, and is epigenetic, not genetic. The evidence also suggests that individuals without a given environmentally-related dysfunction simply have not been exposed to the relevant stress - and when they are, their systems can't handle it.

Your point is mute.

I assure you, neither I nor my points are mute. [Had to say it. Yes, I know you mean moot.] ...Which particular point do you think is debatable?

symptomoftheuniverse
Also the irish tend to be more emotional than the english.

That's more of an environmental trait. When you're raised around a certain behavior you will adapt to that.

Genetic behaviors that are pre-programmed are more related to survival and well being, things that we don't have to be taught, such as:
-Fire hurts.
-Falling from big heights = ouch.
-Must avoid spiders and snakes.
-Growling dog/hissing cat isn't friendly.

reply to post by Xaphan

Genetic behaviors that are per-programmed are more related to survival and well being, things that we don't have to be taught, such as:
-Fire hurts.
-Falling from big heights = ouch.
-Must avoid spiders and snakes.
-Growling dog/hissing cat isn't friendly.

Leaving "learned behavior" aside, the evidence very strongly suggests that even "instinct" is not hardwired. Granted, nothing is proved yet. But given that our genetic hard drive only has 20,000-odd genes, 'instinct' looks to be an epigenetic software program more than a hardwired function.

P.S. Your examples are not universal. Most children I've observed had to learn that fire is hot - they're most inclined to want to touch that pretty flame. I personally have never had any fears of spiders and snakes or growling dogs/hissing cats. I do have a fear of heights, but also have had recurring -and very clear- dreams/memories since childhood of trying to climb out of the edge of an abyss while the soil and rock were crumbling beneath my feet.

"Instinct" is a still mystery - but the best scientific explanation likely will be found in epigenetics and inherited memory (not genetic memory).

soficrow
reply to post by Kashai

 

If environmental stress can cause dysfunction then the problem is the environment not the individual exposed to the environment.

I agree. I also know that many people, not just committed Eugenicists, think that an individual's inability to cope with environmental stress is evidence of "genetic inferiority." I don't agree - because the evidence shows that such dysfunction relates to level and duration of exposure, and is epigenetic, not genetic. The evidence also suggests that individuals without a given environmentally-related dysfunction simply have not been exposed to the relevant stress - and when they are, their systems can't handle it.

Your point is mute.

I assure you, neither I nor my points are mute. [Had to say it. Yes, I know you mean moot.] ...Which particular point do you think is debatable?

edit on 7/11/13 by soficrow because: add sentence

When you mention genetic inferiority and opinions of how it is something about a person. That is a good example of a dysfunction of society.

Humans, animals, plants insects on earth exist because of the environmental conditions onEarth. Besides "other issue", DNA could form on Earth and here we are. In so far as people feeling that others are inferior that is a good example of dysfunction in a society. It is to say that those who support Eugenics are simply confused about the overall relationship between what we are and DNA.

Myself if I ran into someone posting about the relevance of Eugenics I would have a field day taking there argument apart, because it makes no sense to talk about it that way.

A clear distinction between humans and animals is that when a dysfunctional sibling is born to an animal, that sibling has no chance for survival.

So these people you speak of are thinking about doing what???

“an epigenetic trait is a stably inherited phenotype resulting from changes in a chromosome without alterations in the DNA sequence.” Shilatifard and colleagues have also proposed three categories of signals that operate in the establishment of a stably heritable epigenetic state. The first is a signal from the environment, the second is a responding signal in the cell that specifies the affected chromosomal location, and the third is a sustaining signal that perpetuates the chromatin change in subsequent generations.

Source

That part do not have problem with friend

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai


Gotcha. It's not your fault and you are not responsible for doing anything about it.

Take care.

Actually one way of understanding what I am saying is that I would be interested in responding to a Thread related to Eugenics.

All things considered your perspective on the matter (IMO) is worthy of a new thread.

Having said that a problem with Epigenics is in relation to onset dates with respect to the psychosis or personality disorders.

At the very least you simply have not provided evidence to support your position, though I grant you Epigenics is a really new field.

Any thoughts?

not new anymore.

genetic memory has been proven in bacteria, worms, birds, perhaps humans already behind the red tape.

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

and the gene for 'improving it identified' (Cs9 or something, in bacteria).

military is even developing genetic memory retrieval/storage/transfer protocols, and already upgrading bits/bytes, probably at the TB by now behind the scenes:

"Permanent genetic memory with >1 byte capacity"

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Genetic memory enables the recording of information in the DNA of living cells. Memory can record a transient environmental signal or cell state that is then recalled at a later time. Permanent memory is implemented using irreversible recombinases that invert the orientation of a unit of DNA, corresponding to the [0,1] state of a bit

.

accounts of actually inheriting it beyond generations is still limited. but to 14 generations, that's hella' impressive anyway:

Ancestors' Genetic "Memories" Could Be Passed On For 14 Generations

www.iflscience.com...

Apr 21, 2017 · The experiences of the ancestors of worms are passed on genetically for 14 generations - so could the same apply to humans?