This is a Biggie if true!! CIA did in DEA agent not drug cartel!

CIA did in DEA agent not drug cartel!

Ok... what's the difference?

TucoTheRat
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Wrabbit,

I don't think anyone is saying that any American Intelligence agent had anything to do with the captured DEA guy beyond knowing he had been captured. I don't doubt they have a hand is other logistic operations is Mexico, But to intentionally harm a fellow American, don't think so.

The principle of the article does smell fishy.

What I don't understand, and this is why I quoted those spinets in previous threads is, Why is this in the news?

Things like this get squashed, they don't end up in the news, especially fox news for crying out loud, it does not have anything to do with Obama, who does this hurt? Who is the target here?

The Rat.

"The CIA ordered the kidnapping and torture of 'Kiki' Camarena, and when they killed him, they made us believe it was Caro Quintero in order to cover up all the illegal things they were doing (with drug trafficking) in Mexico" emphasizes Jordan. He adds: "The DEA is the only (federal agency) with the authority to authorize drug trafficking into the United States as part of an undercover operation".

www.borderlandbeat.com...

reply to post by 727Sky


I believe I would have agreed with you about nothing coming from this ...before Bradley Manning and Wikileaks. They did have one very strong and perhaps, for things like this, positive impact. They shook the whole system to it's core for any sense of invincibility and operating so far above the law, they can never be brought down into public view.

You're probably still right about the people who may have had direct involvement or known about this, not getting what they deserve in justice. In fact, given the time involved, it's quite possible the real people who we'd want to see brought up on charges are dead by now. That could be why this is coming out now, in fact. It may be entirely safe to "give" this scandal to distract us from other things happening. ...because no one still living may be there TO get. Sadly.....

I'll sure be watching this because as much as this murder means to some of us? I think there are definitely people who were younger agents then and have risen to higher levels since..and take this case far more personally than we do. I wouldn't write off an outcome to this, quite yet. We may be surprised...

727Sky

I feel so sorry for the population... The Mexican lady who cuts my hair told me today when things get bad in a city for some reason none of the phone connections work until things are back under control...?? I have never heard that before and still find it hard to believe but I do know when the federals move into a City the druggies have radios and cell phone lookouts that pin point their location better than a drones GPS . So there might be something to her info?

A mobile phone network works by having hexagonal grids of transmitters. Each transmitter actually consists of of three antennae each of which cover 120 degrees of a circle. This forms a triangular patchwork. From any three transmitters, you can triangulate the location of a cellphone. Each transmitter will receive a different signal strength. It's then a case of drawing three circles sized according to signal strength (smaller circle = stronger signal), then you know where the phone is.
Anyone with access to the computer system can do this.

Then there's the communication aspect. During the oil industry strikes over safety in Aberdeen in the 1980's (over safety), the rig-managers would confiscated the transistor radios of striking workers.

In the 1990's, various large companies in the UK and USA decided to fire employees, they would cut the internet and telephone lines to the rest of the company. Employees joked it was "to stop the rest of the world hearing the screaming".

727Sky
www.borderlandbeat.com...

WASHINGTON (Proceso)(apro).-- Three former U.S. federal agents decided to end a 28-year silence and simultaneously entrusted this journal and the U.S. Fox news services with an information "bomb": Enrique Kiki Camarena was not murdered by Rafael Caro Quintero -- the capo that served a sentence for that crime -- but by an agent of the CIA. The reason: the DEA agent discovered that his own government was collaborating with the Mexican narco in his illegal business.

In interviews with Proceso, Phil Jordan, former director of the El Paso Intelligence Center (EPIC); Hector Berrellez, former DEA agent, and Tosh Plumlee, a former CIA pilot, claim that they have evidence that the U.S. government itself ordered the murder of Kiki Camarena in 1985. In addition, they point to a sinister Cuban character, Felix Ismael Rodriguez, as the murderer.

I hate stories like this.. There have been continuous rumors of CIA and DEA drug running for many years with headline news articles that just seem to fade away. Everything from DEA charter aircraft with 4 tons of coke crashing to agents testifying who did what, where and when... If this story is true nothing can justify this, nothing!

I understand that Bush Sr. was heavily involved in this kind of nonsense, and he rose to become the POTUS.. sad but true.

stormcell

727Sky

I feel so sorry for the population... The Mexican lady who cuts my hair told me today when things get bad in a city for some reason none of the phone connections work until things are back under control...?? I have never heard that before and still find it hard to believe but I do know when the federals move into a City the druggies have radios and cell phone lookouts that pin point their location better than a drones GPS . So there might be something to her info?

A mobile phone network works by having hexagonal grids of transmitters. Each transmitter actually consists of of three antennae each of which cover 120 degrees of a circle. This forms a triangular patchwork. From any three transmitters, you can triangulate the location of a cellphone. Each transmitter will receive a different signal strength. It's then a case of drawing three circles sized according to signal strength (smaller circle = stronger signal), then you know where the phone is.
Anyone with access to the computer system can do this.

Then there's the communication aspect. During the oil industry strikes over safety in Aberdeen in the 1980's (over safety), the rig-managers would confiscated the transistor radios of striking workers.

In the 1990's, various large companies in the UK and USA decided to fire employees, they would cut the internet and telephone lines to the rest of the company. Employees joked it was "to stop the rest of the world hearing the screaming".

I agree with you and I have a little knowledge of how it works; I just never thought TPTB were using it to shut down a geographical area that was experiencing domestic problems in Mexico...

I guess all the U.S. drug war assistance is working in some areas...? Kinda like the mushroom in a darkened room and fed crap. But in defense if an op is going down the Cartels usually (used to) know well ahead of time which exits routes to take to save their hides.

One of the bosses refused to leave Matamoros because he had paid the protection money to the military....Little did he know the Gulf Cartel had paid more (kinda hired the Marines) so 600 Marines kicked the Zetas out of Matamoros and killed Tony the Torturer... 4 members of the cartel survived and the last I heard high tailed it to Houston...

Nice to have an American passport, No?

Let's open the border ! Make it easier for anyone to travel back and forth... Most people have absolutely no idea what is going on... I don't either unless what I have read or been told is true. Looking at the spread of the Cartels into American cities; I will believe myself before many other mouth pieces pontificate their well thought out arguments.

reply to post by 727Sky


Gary Webb must be smiling right now.

Okay we are talking either about the US government, or entities whom control the US government. As big as the drug bluishness is, whom has the power and resources to direct the course of action of the US government surely is involved in all kinds of businesses, maybe has a huuuge portofolio that encompasses a lot of not only the US economy. So the people whom can direct the letter agencies are wealthy beyond measure and if it is the US government itself whom is involved, without an outside influence, its basically rigging the game to get the dollars that it is printing to begin with.

So whoever is involved has bigger roosts to fry than the drug trade. But if money isnt the motivation, why would somebody with the power to direct the letter agencies have an interest to keep the drug trade going?

And if money is of interest, why kind of set up is it where a group of people have the power to direct the agencies of one of the wealthiest nations on earth, but themselves are not so wealthy that they do not scoff at getting their share of the drug trade?

We guarded poppy fields in Afghanistan.

libertytoall
We guarded poppy fields in Afghanistan.

We ran drugs in Vietnam...what is your point?! I don't mean that to be disparaging, but just making a statement doesn't really make a point.

Merinda
Okay we are talking either about the US government, or entities whom control the US government. As big as the drug bluishness is, whom has the power and resources to direct the course of action of the US government surely is involved in all kinds of businesses, maybe has a huuuge portofolio that encompasses a lot of not only the US economy. So the people whom can direct the letter agencies are wealthy beyond measure and if it is the US government itself whom is involved, without an outside influence, its basically rigging the game to get the dollars that it is printing to begin with.

So whoever is involved has bigger roosts to fry than the drug trade. But if money isnt the motivation, why would somebody with the power to direct the letter agencies have an interest to keep the drug trade going?

And if money is of interest, why kind of set up is it where a group of people have the power to direct the agencies of one of the wealthiest nations on earth, but themselves are not so wealthy that they do not scoff at getting their share of the drug trade?

Actually it is much more basic than all that.

Congress controls the purse strings (supposed to) The CIA was trying to fight a war in Nicaragua against the Sandinistas without Congressional approval or money.

Ronald Reagan saw the Contras as a convenient tool for removing the Sandinistas from power in Nicaragua while trying to get the American economy back on it's feet after the disaster that were the Jimmy Carter years..

The players included Iran, Panamanian leader Manuel Noriega, several un-named coc aine traffickers, and Colonel Oliver North who was (accused) reported to have concocted a complex scheme in which American weapons were sold to Iran. The money from Iran as well as additional funds from drug trafficking, were routed to the Contras.

North took the fall for the Government as a good trooper should.. The pentagon had full bird colonels pouring coffee for generals as general aids so I always found it hard to believe a Colonel (probably hand picked by CIA director Bill Casey) could have ran the show unbeknown to the big boys.

Many things about that time in history are so buried that we will learn about the Kennedy assignation before those files come to light IMO. Maybe Col. North will do a death bed confession but I doubt it. They were fighting communism in there minds and plans... The end justified the means.... evidently?
Not to leave out a Democratic administration; Jimmy Carter and his plans actually set up the situation

libcom.org...
1970-1987: The contra war in Nicaragua
libcom.org...

When his rule was challenged, by the [popular, left-wing] Sandinistas in the late 1970s, the US first tried to institute what was called "Somocismo [Somoza-ism] without Somoza" - that is, the whole corrupt system intact, but with somebody else at the top. That didn't work, so President Carter tried to maintain Somoza's National Guard as a base for US power.

The National Guard had always been remarkably brutal and sadistic. By June 1979, it was carrying out massive atrocities in the war against the Sandinistas, bombing residential neighbourhoods in Managua, killing tens of thousands of people. At that point, the US ambassador sent a cable to the White House saying it would be "ill-advised" to tell the Guard to call off the bombing, because that might interfere with the policy of keeping them in power and the Sandinistas out.

Our ambassador to the Organisation of American States also spoke in favour of "Somocismo without Somoza," but the OAS rejected the suggestion flat out. A few days later, Somoza flew off to Miami with what was left of the Nicaraguan national treasury, and the Guard collapsed.

The Carter administration flew Guard commanders out of the country in planes with Red Cross markings (a war crime), and began to reconstitute the Guard on Nicaragua's borders. They also used Argentina as a proxy. (At that time, Argentina was under the rule of neo-Nazi generals, but they took a little time off from torturing and murdering their own population to help re-establish the Guard - soon to be renamed the contras, or "freedom fighters.")

libcom.org...

You just can't make this stuff up and if you did it would not be near as interesting as what actually went down during those years. There are many different stories all claiming to be correct and I do not have an inside story on any of it: only what I have read and remember. Kinda like the guys who waited 28 years to tell a story of how and why a DEA agent was killed; believe them or not... I wonder if I would risk everything if I were in their position for I know many who would not....

727Sky

I hate stories like this.. There have been continuous rumors of CIA and DEA drug running for many years with headline news articles that just seem to fade away. Everything from DEA charter aircraft with 4 tons of coke crashing to agents testifying who did what, where and when... If this story is true nothing can justify this, nothing!

What? Come on man.

You know it true. You always have. You, yes you, the reader reading me. Yes, YOU the lurker, you know too don't you?

Let me remind you and YOU that people, friends, neighbors, lovers, family are victims of this. Day in and day out.

That # you loathe so much is being feed to those you love by those who are supposed to "protect you". It's so true they made a movie of the damn thing. Because of that, we as a culture just accept it.

You say yourself, nothing can justify it. So now what?

libertytoall
We guarded poppy fields in Afghanistan.

Hold on saving a space here for a quote. Stay tuned.

In Afghan fields the poppies grow. Between the crosses. Row on row.

Michael Rivero

WhatReallyHappened.com

Tosh Plumlee has been on the Expert Witness Radio Show a few times. Their website is a mess if you want to find old shows. I'm going to post some links, but at the moment I can't listen to them again to verify that they really are the Tosh Plumlee interviews.

Tosh recent

Tosh 1

Tosh 2

Tosh 3

Tosh 4

Tosh 5

Mike Levine from the the Expert Witness Radio Show used to work with Kiki Camarena. He has been mentioned so many times on the show, I doubt I could come up with a list of podcasts.

It is interesting to read this story on the Fox News website.

www.foxnews.com...

"I know and from what I have been told by a former head of the Mexican federal police, Comandante (Guillermo Gonzales) Calderoni, the CIA was involved in the movement of drugs from South America to Mexico and to the U.S.," says Phil Jordan, former director of DEA's powerful El Paso Intelligence Center.

"In (Camarena’s) interrogation room, I was told by Mexican authorities, that CIA operatives were in there. Actually conducting the interrogation. Actually taping Kiki."

Eventually, the prosecution did obtain tapes of Camarena's torture and murder.

"The CIA was the source. They gave them to us," said Berrellez. "Obviously, they were there. Or at least some of their contract workers were there."

On Thursday night, a CIA Spokesman told Fox News that “it’s ridiculous to suggest that the CIA had anything to do with the murder of a U.S. federal agent or the escape of his killer.”

Berrellez says two informants from the Mexican state police, who witnessed Camarena's torture, independently and positively identified a photo of one man, a Cuban, who worked as a CIA operative who helped run guns and drugs for the Contras.

I had to search for the story. Fox is certainly not emphasizing it in their coverage.

Camarena's troubles started when he got too good at his job.

Besides the Expert Witness Radio show, Bill Conroy from Narco News has been covering this story for some time. Here is his latest article:
Narco News

reply to post by 727Sky


Well I stand corrected Sir!

I was just kind of..I don't know...trying to help save face. You know there are a Lot of Americans that just can't handle the Idea of all those years believing that Mexico is such a corrupt and screwed up country only to one day wake up and find that their gov is pretty much in the same boat. It's silly really, JFK getting his brains blown out should have settled that illusion.

But, in that case let me go back to saying....DAMN! That's some crazy stuff!

The Rat.

reply to post by 727Sky


Plumlee broke this on Alex Jones' show last week fearing he'd be Breitbarted before he could get the story out.
Glad to see the story out in the public domain.

reply to post by 727Sky


Ahhh...you beat me to it.Mike Ruppert has been saying that the CIA has been importing and dealing drugs for a LONG time.

gariac
Besides the Expert Witness Radio show, Bill Conroy from Narco News has been covering this story for some time. Here is his latest article:
Narco News

From your link:

Plumlee during that period (early-to-mid-1980s) was already talking with then-Sen. Gary Hart’s office about the drug-and-weapons shipments he was being ordered to carry out as part of US-government sanctioned operations. In fact, he provided testimony to the US Senate several times “behind closed doors” in the 1980s and early 1990s, revealing what he knew about the operations.

narcosphere.narconews.com... copy of Senate testimony

“I conveyed what he [Plumlee] said to the [Senate] Subcommittee on Narcotics, Terrorism and International Operations, then headed by Sen. Kerry,” Holen says. “They did validate what Tosh was saying.… Kerry’s staff did speak to me on several occasions, and they did bring Tosh in to testify. I have no reason not to believe Tosh [Plumlee].”

John Kerry still moving and shaking even today......

In the wake of Camarena’s murder, Jordan says DEA agents managed to catch up with Caro Quintero at the airport in Guadalajara, but were prevented from apprehending him because Caro Quintero was protected by dozens of DFS agents.

Jordan, who says he has two trusted sources of information on the so-called “Mexican stand-off” at the Guadalajara airport, adds that the plane Caro Quintero flew out on that day was owned by narco-trafficker “Matta Ballesteros,” the founder of SETCO. Jordan also contends Caro Quintero was carrying DFS credentials and that the aircraft’s pilot was “a CIA operative.”

Those individuals wanted to find and control the sources providing information to Camarena in order to protect the covert operation and ultimately the White House. Berrellez also says Camarena played a key role in helping DEA to successfully ramp up interdiction of the proceeds from illicit drug sales, thereby threatening the funding source for the CIA-backed Contra-supply effort — which was another incentive for ferreting out his sources of information.

Now that makes sense: They wanted to know Kiki's sources so they could roll up the leaks.. This is a well written article with a little more detail.. Thank you for Posting the link
I Remember Daniel Inouye during the hearings being shut down by Col. North's lawyer

Bio of Kiki... along with the official "We are gonna get those suckers"!

The infamous "deeply concerned" statement by the U.S. upon release of Kiki Camarena's murder.. Payments had to be worked out on who would get paid for his release according to the video.

If you start at 6:15 this deep cover X agents says the CIA is the biggest "Don" in the drug trade... an old sordid tail.. There was plenty of smoke to indicate there was a fire but all talk and no fire fighters pursued the flames. . Sound familiar? Good video and talks about Ricky Ross's supplier: CIA... Again wait, stall and it will all go away....