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This is a Biggie if true!! CIA did in DEA agent not drug cartel!

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posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 


Finally! was wondering if this would pop up.

FOX NEWS





"Our intelligence agencies were working under the cover of DFS. And as I said it before, unfortunately, DFS agents at that time were also in charge of protecting the drug lords and their monies," said Berrellez.




"After the murder of Camarena, (Mexico's) investigation pointed that the DFS had been complicit along with American intelligence in the kidnap and torture of Kiki. That's when they decided to disband the DFS."


Damn!

The Rat.
edit on 29-10-2013 by TucoTheRat because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


I think the thread is about the murder of Enrique Kiki Camarena and who may actually have turned out to have done it... If rogue CIA or other American agents had anything to do with it, there is no statute of limitation and double that on THIS one, for the nature and brutality of it.

We've been Off Topic on a tangent for a bit now..and I'm going end my side of that. Perhaps a thread will pop up elsewhere dealing directly with the cartels, politics and general situation now in Mexico.. My apologies to the OP here, as this one really isn't it.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by TucoTheRat
 


Damn!



Complicit is a strong term that Berrellez doesn't shy away from. However, when he raised the issue internally, his supervisors told him to drop it. Eventually he was transferred to Washington D.C., and was ordered to stop pursuing any angle that suggested U.S. assets knew of Camarena's capture.


No!?!? Really!?!?!



"I know and from what I have been told by a former head of the Mexican federal police, Comandante (Guillermo Gonzales) Calderoni, the CIA was involved in the movement of drugs from South America to Mexico and to the U.S.," says Phil Jordan, former director of DEA's powerful El Paso Intelligence Center.


I think Fox news knew this was a little to big to just brush under the rug, they did not want to be "Complicit" as well after being handed the info from the Feds that are blowing the whistle.

Fox News

The Rat.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:00 AM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


I think the thread is about the murder of Enrique Kiki Camarena and who may actually have turned out to have done it... If rogue CIA or other American agents had anything to do with it, there is no statute of limitation and double that on THIS one, for the nature and brutality of it.

We've been Off Topic on a tangent for a bit now..and I'm going end my side of that. Perhaps a thread will pop up elsewhere dealing directly with the cartels, politics and general situation now in Mexico.. My apologies to the OP here, as this one really isn't it.


"Rogue" just means no one will take accountability for it. Doesn't mean they were actually rogue or that it wasn't sanctioned. Listen to Erongaricuaro, he's spot on.

There are reasons why people involved in this business last for 30-50 years strong, and it's not because they are impossible to find. And there is a reason that as soon as a Mexican President aligned himself with US backed money/influence/etc, that an all out war broke out.

The supply didn't get interrupted, simply control for it. But the brainwashed American would think that when the US brokers deals with these people, they were simply trying to stop it, but if the Mexicans do it, they are corrupt… Ah yes, double standards.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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Erongaricuaro
The good guys are the bad guys and the bad guys are cogs in the machine.


Most important sentence in this thread.



And those "good guys" couldnt keep them selves in business without using their "good guy" status to keep the war on drugs alive, but useless.

While "Bad guys" kill each other over the profit in between and the poor, desperate addicts kill on the streets having had the life squeezed right out of them.
edit on 29-10-2013 by Biigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


If CIA tortured and murdered a DEA agent, by design and by decision from the agency itself....and DEA ever got so much as a SLIGHT HINT of that, we'd have a whole new civil war on a smaller, but far more violent scale I believe. An agency with no rules...facing an agency that respects no rules ...with the blood of an agent between them?

Nawww.... I don't buy it. Not for one second. I don't say it couldn't have been a rogue element and there sure were some VERY rogue elements running around in the 80's, especially under Director Casey and the culture he fostered. It was one heck of a CIA under him, as a few things have come out to indicate over the years. So even a small group running their own side business with it's own priorities wouldn't shock me...

However... There are limits to everything ...even paranoia of the Government. At least in my opinion, logic stops short of where the more extreme theory here would take it.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Wrabbit,

I don't think anyone is saying that any American Intelligence agent had anything to do with the captured DEA guy beyond knowing he had been captured. I don't doubt they have a hand is other logistic operations is Mexico, But to intentionally harm a fellow American, don't think so.

The principle of the article does smell fishy.

What I don't understand, and this is why I quoted those spinets in previous threads is, Why is this in the news?

Things like this get squashed, they don't end up in the news, especially fox news for crying out loud, it does not have anything to do with Obama, who does this hurt? Who is the target here?

The Rat.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:38 AM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by boncho
 


If CIA tortured and murdered a DEA agent, by design and by decision from the agency itself....and DEA ever got so much as a SLIGHT HINT of that, we'd have a whole new civil war on a smaller, but far more violent scale I believe. An agency with no rules...facing an agency that respects no rules ...with the blood of an agent between them?

Nawww.... I don't buy it. Not for one second. I don't say it couldn't have been a rogue element and there sure were some VERY rogue elements running around in the 80's, especially under Director Casey and the culture he fostered. It was one heck of a CIA under him, as a few things have come out to indicate over the years. So even a small group running their own side business with it's own priorities wouldn't shock me...

However... There are limits to everything ...even paranoia of the Government. At least in my opinion, logic stops short of where the more extreme theory here would take it.


I'm actually surprised by the naivety here from you. You still don't get it, the "rogue" agents, are whistleblower. Yes, a good portion (large portion) -pencil pushers- etc, are kept in the dark, but the people in the higher echelons and strike teams, they are the players.

This is reminiscent right down to smaller LEO groups, where beat cops are held to the official standard and strike team and major crime units run amok with no oversight. The larger you go, the larger the corruption gets. But this stuff is documented, and there is no chance in hell people don't know what's going on (if they are in the know.)

This is like saying the Bush administration didn't know their lead intelligence agency was redacting reports so it implicated Iraq for having weapons of mass destruction (and the unredacted showed it actually proved the opposite.) Yeah man, no one had a clue…






posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:40 AM
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TucoTheRat
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Wrabbit,

I don't think anyone is saying that any American Intelligence agent had anything to do with the captured DEA guy beyond knowing he had been captured. I don't doubt they have a hand is other logistic operations is Mexico, But to intentionally harm a fellow American, don't think so.

The principle of the article does smell fishy.

What I don't understand, and this is why I quoted those spinets in previous threads is, Why is this in the news?

Things like this get squashed, they don't end up in the news, especially fox news for crying out loud, it does not have anything to do with Obama, who does this hurt? Who is the target here?

The Rat.


Devil is in the details. In that world, murdering someone might be as simple as letting something slip with your informant/contact/etc., not like they have to pull the trigger themselves.

Here is a picture of George Bush SR and Felix Rodriquez to mull over:

www.afrocubaweb.com...

Another source on the OP www.ticotimes.net...
edit on 29-10-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by Riffrafter
 





Just wait until they get to setting the record straight on JFK...


And when they do that, the REAL brown stuff will fly.

America will discover their entire *legitimate* political system ended that day.

And I for one would start at looking who gained out of JFK's death...LBJ was the first, that's where i'd look first, and then who hhe was affiliated with, especially the money people.

Then you'll find your conspiritors, the shooters were just hired guns..the orders came from higher up.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I'd appreciate it greatly if we could debate the topic and keep it off the personal level here. I'm not calling you naive or saying you "don't get it", personally. We have differing opinions. In this case, very different opinions.

Mine has no more natural superiority or corner on the market of being accurate than yours does.

Having said that, I absolutely see the framework of a police state assembled around us. I see the potential here and it's reached a point where it can go from the peace it is today, right now, to something pretty ugly in a matter of days. Depends on the level of national crisis that happens or may someday be used to spark that transition.

I do not, however, live with my eyes peeled for black vans, helicopters or cops lurking around. Hell, I know several of the cops in this town and have been out on their range training with medical trauma courses that have been offered. Several know me, if not well, then enough to nod to anyway. I don't share some of the hate, let alone fear of the police that seems common these days. I've simply known too many as friends and personal contacts over my lifetime to even play at believing a majority are bad. They aren't and never have been.

....and back where we started. There's my opinion, from my own life experiences across almost 40 years worth. My opinions, from where I sit, are right on this. Yours, from where you sit ..are right on this. That, is the true nature and joy of a free nation. We can have radically opposite opinions ..even mutually exclusive ones ..and have them without fear.

Time for some sleep though.. the sun is on the rise. I can just feel it.. (*poof*)



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Well, the one comment is actually meant to be a compliment more than anything…


I see the potential here and it's reached a point where it can go from the peace it is today, right now, to something pretty ugly in a matter of days.


Someone posted this in a thread. Good cost of so called "peace" I imagine, but the organization of discussion. (Very relevant.)


I do not, however, live with my eyes peeled for black vans, helicopters or cops lurking around. Hell, I know several of the cops in this town and have been out on their range training with medical trauma courses that have been offered.


Neither do I sit with a tinfoil hat on, and yes, know officers as well. My accounts include what I've learned from them, and also relate to what actually makes it out to the news. As I said though, the scale of corruption diminishes the smaller you go. So, a small town, hardly has any, compared to an agency with god knows how much in funding. More money, more corruption.


I've simply known too many as friends and personal contacts over my lifetime to even play at believing a majority are bad. They aren't and never have been.


I agree with you that this here, is a matter of opinion. However, the position I took on this one has evidence to support the basis. Did I generalize too much? Perhaps. I will reflect on that.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Well, putting the Naive thing aside ...


No story or topic is worth hard feelings or personal issues over, right?

Heck, maybe the several threads a day running right now with some variety of 'Get the cops!' or 'Everything about the US sucks' are just rubbing my fur a bit raw. I'll probably do real work today for a change and let my software projects gimmie something else to be distracted with. The real floods of threads on one topic or focus of rage always pass, until the next story comes along to turn overall public anger in a new direction.

It is a bit of a shame though, that the story of this agents horrible murder can't be the focus..and I don't mean you..I mean the thread lasted on that for a few posts before becoming the same running in over a half dozen threads right now, with little variation among them within a page or two.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 06:03 AM
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I was always under the impression the CIA was the biggest cartel and they organized the Sinoloa gang.
Of course what do I know? I'm just a silly American who watches too much tv.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 06:16 AM
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Perhaps Snowden has started a domino effect within the agencies...



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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Wrabbit2000
...with some variety of 'Get the cops!' or 'Everything about the US sucks' are just rubbing my fur a bit raw.

It is a bit of a shame though, that the story of this agents horrible murder can't be the focus..


I get the same reaction when people tell me about the "civil war" raging in Mexico and how the "cartels" have taken over the government, the lawlessness, and the country in a state of siege. That is not the life we live here.

Shame about discussing the actual topic of this thread. When it becomes exposed that the slaughter of an American Drug agent may have actually been carried out by a rival US agency covering up their nefarious activities there is a rush to say, "That just can't be so." The whole sordid affair is much easier to swallow if we can just blame the Mexican instead of looking at the bigger picture.

What is typically not realized by the average folk is just what an organized big business the illicit drug trade is, who really is involved, and how its profits depend on keeping a Drug War in place. It is big business on both sides of the stream and serves an even bigger agenda of tearing down the peoples security and any expectation of privacy all in the name of "getting the bad guy." It is shameful what liberties the authorities now routinely take to deprive us of ours. Anything like the news in this thread that casts the Drug War in a bad light or exposes it wheeling-dealings just has to have its subject changed and put the focus back on all the crime and corruption that exists outside and beyond the US borders.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by TucoTheRat
 


From the Fox news article you posted:
www.foxnews.com...


Over 30 hours, Quintero and others crushed Camarena's skull, jaw, nose and cheekbones with a tire iron. They broke his ribs, drilled a hole in his head and tortured him with a cattle prod. As Camarena lay dying, Quintero ordered a cartel doctor to keep the U.S. agent alive.

It is one thing to kill someone and quite another "thing" to torture someone for the crimes of their fathers or employers.. Kiki was a DEA agent working for the U.S. Government who was going after the Cartel's money instead of their soldiers...


Today, however, Quintero is gone, released from jail by Mexican judges nine weeks ago on a legal technicality. In doing so, Mexico ignored a U.S. extradition request and also never informed Washington of his release. Two days later, the White House released a statement saying it was "deeply concerned" Quintero was free.

Yep the old "Deeply Concerned" statement..that will get them! Maybe the technicality the Mexicans discovered had something to do with the whole thing being a CIA directed op.. ?


"In (Camarena’s) interrogation room, I was told by Mexican authorities, that CIA operatives were in there. Actually conducting the interrogation. Actually taping Kiki."

Eventually, the prosecution did obtain tapes of Camarena's torture and murder.

"The CIA was the source. They gave them to us," said Berrellez. "Obviously, they were there. Or at least some of their contract workers were there."


So Kiki was tortured for 30 hours: Someone from the CIA knew what was going on either during or after (enough to acquire the tape of the interview of Kiki according to this source) and yet no rescue mission was launched.....

Most people think their unit (military, FBI, DEA, CIA, police force) etc etc will have their back if something bad goes down and in many/most cases they have every right in this belief. Evidently Kiki was sold down the river by powers so far removed he did not even know of their existence. Like I said in the title this really is a biggie if the particulars are true.


"You want me to say this on camera? Alright. Those entities were cut outs financed and operated by the Central Intelligence Agency," he said. "Our operations were sanctioned by the federal government, controlled out of the Pentagon. The CIA acted in some cases as our logistical support team."


Of course the "Official" word is:

On Thursday night, a CIA Spokesman told Fox News that “it’s ridiculous to suggest that the CIA had anything to do with the murder of a U.S. federal agent or the escape of his killer.”



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 

Thanks for the post there to remind people what this case was, why it matters and why...it really is just about THIS one and not 1,000 other cases to be tied in and somehow connected to make a great big TPTB issue to just debate generalities until the cows come home. (rolls eyes)

This definitely wasn't a quick shot to the head or beheading, as they've come to love doing to people now.

They did actually use a medical doctor, as evidence came to show, to revive him and keep him alive for as long as humanly possible, literally, so the torture could continue.

The only case I really know of that made me equally sick and burned in like this this one for the sheer horror of what was done to the man ...is William Buckley (Beirut, 1985).

Like you say...there is killing and even execution. That's bad enough and it's BAD..no mistake. This? This was the work of friggen animals and EVIL. Nothing but outright evil in the true sense of the word, IMO.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by 727Sky
 

Thanks for the post there to remind people what this case was, why it matters and why...it really is just about THIS one and not 1,000 other cases to be tied in and somehow connected to make a great big TPTB issue to just debate generalities until the cows come home. (rolls eyes)

This definitely wasn't a quick shot to the head or beheading, as they've come to love doing to people now.

They did actually use a medical doctor, as evidence came to show, to revive him and keep him alive for as long as humanly possible, literally, so the torture could continue.

The only case I really know of that made me equally sick and burned in like this this one for the sheer horror of what was done to the man ...is William Buckley (Beirut, 1985).

Like you say...there is killing and even execution. That's bad enough and it's BAD..no mistake. This? This was the work of friggen animals and EVIL. Nothing but outright evil in the true sense of the word, IMO.





Yep. Remember the above, people, next time you want to buy a little toot to snort, a little grass to burn, even a little ecstasy. It is your money funding the drug cartels. They don't care just so long as they get the American buck. And so far, nothing seems to be stopping it. RIP, Kiki.



posted on Oct, 29 2013 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You and I both know nothing if anything will come of these revelations just as nothing came out of the testimony of DEA agents in the 80s.
www.borderlandbeat.com...
Talk about a change in policy and salt in the wounds...!

MEXICO, DF. (proceso.com.mx).--The Mexican Office of Attorney General (PGR: Procuraduria General de la Republica) has decided to restrict official reports about organized crime in the country for 12 years, such as the number of cartels, their names and their areas of operation.

Sure nothing to see here! Move along! It is for the protection of the people! Which people is up to us to decide, No?

As the video says they will bring those responsible to justice... Must have been classified or I missed it?
More of the same even made "Dateline" MSN where was the final determination?
The government side and rebuttal.. "There has never been a conspiracy in the United States"
Plenty of youtube reports for anyone who might be interested in some of the background of CIA drug running. As usual there are the reports from those who fought the war and those who were incharge of the war. Kiki was trying to fight the war......




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