Police attack nurse because she called her supervisor.

"When will people stand up to this madness?"

Yea...you keep saying it. So...




WHEN WILL YOU???

From the OPs video transcript -

When she got on the phone all she said was 'we fixing to bust one of your nurses,'" Bien-Aime said.

Aren't police officers expected to be able to speak basic English?
'we fixing to bust one of your nurses' ... REALLY???

It seems to me, the common sense thing to do is to notify hospital legal, admins and nurse managers that this will be taking place...in order that the patient can be ready for safe transport and other patients safely removed from the area in case it goes badly...and to give staff on duty the heads up.

This just seems poorly handled all the way around.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Sorry on this one. The Nurse really didn't have authority to stop, delay or hinder the officers. There is no "Wait, I have to call my supervisor to see if you can do that" kind of conversation. If the officers are there to apprehend someone, you can't block them without obstructing. You can't stop an LEO from trying to apprehend someone, it doesn't work that way.

I have seen hospital personnel somehow think they are above Police jurisdiction in situations like this literally over a dozen times. I kid you not. The Hospitals think that they have to give permission for LEO to do things, they don't.

The LEO's in the video were heavy handed, but the moral of the story is you don't obstruct them. There is more to the story I am pretty sure as the police report states the nurse saying "This is an injustice" and "Oh no, this is not happening while she is in charge" , before running behind and locking the half door (not a smart move). I am all for knowing your rights and fighting for them, but you first need to know what the law is. Obstructing a LEO from performing their duties isn't one of those. You do it at your own risk.

Say what you will about the Police Reaction, she obstructed. She didn't have a right to do that.

Actually the nurse had no legal right to interfere with the police in the course of their duty, and neither does her supervisor. Being in a medical facility does not trump the polices legal right to arrest, and she is obstructing law enforcement officers. What did she think she was going to do with calling the supervisor anyway? Did she honestly think that if her supervisor would have told the police that they could not arrest the patient that the officers would have said “well, okay then, we'll just leave”. To the officers this woman is preventing them making the arrest, and could very well be delaying them while the patient has time to escape the area. The police have the right to enter ANY place required to effect an arrest, and there is no one but a judge who can override their right to do so.

reply to post by defcon5


The supervisor of course wouldnt be able to block an arrest.

Having been in that position myself and both having referred to a supervisor and not referred to a supervisor the option of not referring to a supervisor leads to a #storm of job troubles and hearings and threats of termination and all sorts of crap.

If there is any hierarchy at your place of work you have to follow it even if just for the ability to say "hey, I called the supervisor" to get the heat off your own ass.

Sure, the cops have a job to do. So does the nurse. So does her supervisor. So does the department head. So does the hospital board. The cops job is just one pissant little job among many pissant little jobs.

Ahem, civil disobedience, ahem

When is the right time?

When do we stop supporting not only brutal nation-wide police behavior but all the crimes and unconstitutional government acts?

When do we collectively stop paying taxes, announce our demands and exercise our power?

We have the necessary communication infrastructure to get enough people on the same page to make a difference in our everyday lives and correct this madness.

So, when is the right time?!

real MEN do NOT HIT GIRLS,
or taze children,
or Senior Citizens.

Real MEN wouldn't wear a badge.

pavil
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Sorry on this one. The Nurse really didn't have authority to stop, delay or hinder the officers. There is no "Wait, I have to call my supervisor to see if you can do that" kind of conversation. If the officers are there to apprehend someone, you can't block them without obstructing. You can't stop an LEO from trying to apprehend someone, it doesn't work that way.

I have seen hospital personnel somehow think they are above Police jurisdiction in situations like this literally over a dozen times. I kid you not. The Hospitals think that they have to give permission for LEO to do things, they don't.

The LEO's in the video were heavy handed, but the moral of the story is you don't obstruct them. There is more to the story I am pretty sure as the police report states the nurse saying "This is an injustice" and "Oh no, this is not happening while she is in charge" , before running behind and locking the half door (not a smart more). I am all for knowing your rights and fighting for them, but you first need to know what the law is. Obstructing a LEO from performing their duties isn't one of those. You do it at your own risk.

Say what you will about the Police Reaction, she obstructed. She didn't have a right to do that.

She had every right. She is responsible for the therapeutic environment of her patients. The police couldn't give a rats ass about the guy in the room next door that is gasping for what little bit of air he can suck through a straw, or what the commotion will do to him.

She has Federal laws to consider, which the police obviously are oblivious to while they shoved their way through and forced themselves onto her. What kind of ward were they trying to enter? Was it mental? Is there a patients rights issue to consider with a possible patient there? What about HIPPA? What about them having guns? Having worked in a mental hospital, I can guarantee you that police are not allowed onto a locked unit with their firearm.

No. The police are not given carte blanc to do what they did. Grown up bullies. And to treat a lady like that....it just puts the icing on the cake of their lousy, misogynistic "authority".

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


She should have called her supervisor and let them know, but she can't tell the Police to wait while she does it. Like you said, nothing the supervisor would have said, would have stopped the Police from performing their duties.

reply to post by Metaphysique


THX THX.

Thuggery is thuggery is thuggery

regardless of the puppet masters "above" it.

Certainly police forces are but an arm of "authority."

The god of this world is pulling out the stops. He knows his days are numbered . . . and that the God of All is coming to more than clip satan's wings.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Yes. The mechanism IS EVIL

INDEED.

The black hand in all the gloves doing all it can to crash everything literally to hell.

Thx.
BTW, saw nothing . . .

xDeadcowx
I work in a field that deals with a lot of personal information, much like the information in a hospital, and there are clearly defined procedures for dealing with situations involving law enforcement. Most of the time the procedure is to not release any information, or allow any access, without someone from the legal team on hand. You can get sued in a heartbeat for allowing anyone access to anything they shouldn't have access to, cop or not.

You should recommend that your facility change this policy as they have no right to overrule a judges warrant for arrest, and you could end up under arrest yourself. Medical facilities have no more right than private civilians to decide whether or not they wish to comply with the lawful order of a judge. The same applies to Doctors, they do not hold superior authority to a legal writ of arrest, which is why they can be arrested themselves.

Look at this:

Art. 15.01. WARRANT OF ARREST. A "warrant of arrest" is a written order from a magistrate, directed to a peace officer or some other person specially named, commanding him to take the body of the person accused of an offense, to be dealt with according to law.

Does it say: “Take the body of the person accused of an offense, unless its in the custody of a medical authority”? No, it doesn't... Once this is issued, they will bring that person in no matter who thinks they are “superior” to it.

The proper way for your facility to handle it is to allow the police to arrest the person without obstruction, and take any documents that are demanded by the warrant. While you allow the police access, you can call your supervisor and inform them of what is occurring. Your supervisor can then call the facilities attorney. The attorney is also not going to be able to stop it, but they can come back and sue the police if anything is mishandled or the paperwork is not in order.

Your facility cannot be sued for handing over information to the police if the police presented a warrant for that information. NO ONE, not even US Presidents, are above having to hand over information when a warrant is presented, unless its a matter of national security.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Your only right is to allow the police unfettered access and contact your supervisor while the police are busy doing their thing, or after they are done. You cannot block or delay the officers, that is obstruction.


There is good reason for this...
It prevents people from being able to destroy evidence or get away while the police are busy going through the facilities chain of command.

reply to post by defcon5


speaking of evidence:
where's the legislation [not local regulation ] you're citing?

defcon5
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

Your only right is to...

NO neither you nor a LEO dictate, decide, or determine ANYTHING in the matter of rights.

reply to post by defcon5


Right. So what did she do that was blocking the police? Really blocking the police. People can tell me know all day long and I can just walk around them. Did she have to buzz them into some room or something?

From the video the cops could have just walked right in and let the nurse shout "no!" until she was blue in the face.

If your obstruction is in another room nowhere near where you are headed is it really an obstruction?

The time to destroy evidence or escape is funny. Because it doesnt take time to go after the nurse? Seems the best course would have been to just walk in and get the person.

reply to post by Metaphysique

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fourth Amendment says that upon the issue of a warrant the police have the right to search, seize, and arrest. No 'legal' authority of anyone other then a judge can overturn this.

I grew up in Lawrenceville, Ga. As a nurse I am shocked at the behavior of the nurse! You DO NOT lock a door to prevent police from entering your facility period!!! It's called obstruction of justice!

I believe this is the reason they were seeking arrest...

The Gwinnett Daily Post

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


there's really no need to go to an effort to debunk this LEO twaddle/authoritarian claptrap/sheeple braying


simple logic says otherwise:
if the suspect had had [and hopefully did] an infectious disease
and the hospital allowed the police to do whatever they pleased
the hospital would be liable and the police themselves would be suing.

however, since the brutes violently forced their way in; the hospital is in the clear
in addition, the hospital must make sure the police don't go "arresting"/manhandling the wrong person
as they do 99.98% of the time

bigfatfurrytexan

She had every right. She is responsible for the therapeutic environment of her patients.

We will let the courts decide that. I have seen similar things like this numerous times. You can't obstruct. I've never seen it involve the arrest or physical confrontation of a Nurse, someone eventually tells the Nurse to get out of the way.

bigfatfurrytexan She has Federal laws to consider, which the police obviously are oblivious to while they shoved their way through and forced themselves onto her. What kind of ward were they trying to enter? Was it mental? Is there a patients rights issue to consider with a possible patient there? What about HIPPA? What about them having guns? Having worked in a mental hospital, I can guarantee you that police are not allowed onto a locked unit with their firearm.

Upon research, it's seems that your statement doesn't always hold up. "Some" PD's have genral orders about it, some don't. From what I have quickly researched is that there is NO State law in TX that says LEO's have to disarm. Source I am not sure about other States. Hospital rules don't trump those.

From same site:

I didn't say there was a law against it, it's just a matter of policy that we always observe in jails and can observe in mental facilities. A couple of years ago, a mental patient in a private facility got hold of some sort of metal rod from a door and attacked a staff member, causing some serious injuries. They called the police, but when the police got there, the staff said they couldn't enter armed. The police told them they would either enter armed or leave. They were allowed entry and ended up killing the patient who had gone completely berserk. Had they not been armed, who knows what would have happened?

and another:

For a while, one regular hospital decided that guns wouldn't be allowed in their ER. At the time, it was located outside the city limits and I assume the county honored that. I got a call to it one night to take a report of something that happened in the city and they told me I had to disarm. There is no way on God's green earth that I'm going to walk around a hospital ER in uniform with no gun. I'm not a fanatic about guns, but there's a limit to my good nature. I told the receptionist, the nurse and then the doc that I wasn't coming in and the patient could call the police when they were released.

I went on to tell them that if it were a suspect in their ER, there would take a lot of staff to stop me and as many officers as required. I don't know what happened after that, but after we annexed that area, they no longer had the policy.

Some Hospitals have rules asking for LEO's to disarm, Some Police Dept's have General Orders stating similar things, some don't. In TX in particular, according to a LEO who contacted the assistant director of state mental hospitals, there is no state code prohibiting armed entry.

Here is from same site again:

“First, staff in the ward tries to control the situation. If they feel it’s past their ability, they call OHSU’s public safety force,” he said.

And all have policies that ask police to check their weapons at the door for routine visits, such as patient drop-offs.

However, in a crisis situation, they say police are allowed to bring weapons in. “We have no control over whether guns are brought onto the unit,” said Tracy Barnett, spokeswoman for Legacy Hospital, which has three facilities with beds reserved for psychiatric patients: Legacy Adventist, Legacy Emanual and Legacy Good Samaritan. “Once they get here, they are to respond as they do to any of their calls.”