Parents' fury after cops Taser their EIGHT-YEAR-OLD daughter

Or she could have fallen on the knife after being tasered.
I have yet to hear of a single 8 year old stabbing themselves on purpose.
Kids are smarter than adults that way. Hell, they run from flu shots.
This is sick.
The child was little danger to herself and tasering her was risking her life unnecessarily.
The cops were certainly in no danger at any time.
Bad call.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

Or she could have fallen on the knife after being tasered.
I have yet to hear of a single 8 year old stabbing themselves on purpose.
Kids are smarter than adults that way. Hell, they run from flu shots.
This is sick.
The child was little danger to herself and tasering her was risking her life unnecessarily.
The cops were certainly in no danger at any time.
Bad call.

Honestly ATA, I am on the fence on this one. I am sure you as a moderator have been alerted at one point or another as to my viciousness, but to be honest, I am more concerned with why an 8 year old girl would even THINK about putting a knife to her chest........

reply to post by Klassified


lol, mate you have no idea what you are talking about.
I worked Juvenile Justice for four and a half years as a Officer, negotiator and counselor, and after being involved in a riot and almost being stabbed by a 13 year old i can tell you this, children from disturbed backgrounds that "go off" even at 8 years (yes i worked with them as young as 8) can have strength like they are possessed, the anger and contained emotion that is built up inside these young vessels is like a nuclear reactor with a core that has a cyclical melt down, it detonates then it starts all over again.
Now the glaring issue that is being over looked here is that the girl was self harming before she put the knife to her chest, self harmer's have a history of self harming, which means this girl could and i believe possibly have self harmed numerous times before this event, self harm often leads to successful suicide attempts.
In my opinion I have to side with the officers especially if they have had no training in communication or negotiating which is obliviously the case.

reply to post by seeker1963


My heart goes out to the family, the girl and to you, too.

Feel free to contact me by U2U if you'd like to rant or dialogue or whatever.

Painful, helpless, hopeless feeling isolation is the pits. All I could offer is a friendly sounding board but I'm willing to offer that.

I don't know what to make of the OP. I don't think I have sufficient info. But it sure SOUNDS like an over-reaction . . . when other options MIGHT have been available with better training and/or creativity.

Usually, there's several ways to distract a person somewhat meaningfully, or even humorously or absurdly . . . if folks are trained and/or creative.

kx12x
reply to post by Klassified

 

Soundslikesomeonehasachipontheirshouldermaybeafelon...*ahem*
I get tired of the endless threads from people on here complaining about police.
Do you know how much crap goes on a daily bases in any given city that most officers have to deal with?

And what about when an officer does something good? No mention of those stories? No, because no one wants to mention that there are many good officers. Lets pick and choose stories and put a bad spin on them, then just bitch about it, while forgetting about the ones you never heard of that may be responsible for saving your or someone else's life. God forbid we be grateful for the good officers that do good for our community.



Too me, it looks like the officers did the right thing. If you know anything about tasers, they lock up the muscles, which would have prevented the girl from injuring herself further. How would you handle it? Run toward the girl and risk her fatally injuring herself? She was obviously in some psychotic state if she had already injured herself.

edit on 24-10-2013 by kx12x because: (no reason given)

1- Get over yourself. You're making ridiculous assumptions, based on your own personal bias. That much is very clear.


2- Relating to point number 1, not everyone who recognizes and speaks out against the many, widespread police abuses in our society "has a chip on their shoulder" or is a felon, as you so snarkily suggest. I'm certainly no fan of abuse by police, and while yes, I have been arrested before, I have no real criminal record, no convictions for anything, etc. To assume that everyone who points out or speaks out against police abuses is a criminal is highly ignorant and pure prejudice, aside from being completely false.


3- To assume that everyone who points out or speaks out against abuses by police are always against police and will always side against them is just as untrue, ignorant, and prejudiced as the last assumption. There have been a number of cases where I've sided with police. There was a vid I saw recently of an amazing cop, who shot and killed a driver (younger, 20s,30s black man, I forget where). I thought that officer's actions were impeccable, and he should serve as an example to others. However, the cases where the police do wrong just tend to get a whole lot more publicity, so we're more likely to end up hearing about them.


4- Regarding this case, specifically, I'm somewhat undecided. If the cops' story is 100% true, then maybe the action was proper. But cops do sometimes falsify reports to keep themselves out of trouble. I don't think it's necessarily fair to assume they did, and I don't think it's necessarily smart to assume they didn't. A cop investigating you wouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt, most of the time, right?

Anyway, the point about potentially falling on the knife after being tazed may have been a good one as well. How likely that is, I don't think anyone can say, though. And if it were likely, why didn't it happen? I'd say either it's not all that likely, or the knife wasn't exactly tip-to-chest. But the question of why this officer felt using a tazer was the best way out of that situation remains unanswered. I'm also curious how big this girl was. The difference in size between kids at around eight can be pretty extreme sometimes... If she were a big enough kid, and was truly upset, I could see that as being maybe a bit intimidating. It can be hard to block or evade a weapon coming at you.


Unless we can get a lot more info on the particulars, we can really only speculate as to whether he made the right call....

reply to post by Asktheanimals

The child was little danger to herself and tasering her was risking her life unnecessarily.
The cops were certainly in no danger at any time.

How do you figure that an 8 year old running around with a knife despite being confronted by her babysitter and three police officers was of little danger to herself? Especially after she pointed the weapon at her own chest.

It is entirely possible the girl would have gone through with it. Just a smidgen of doubt that she would justifies the tazer. Knives are sharp, and kids do commit suicide. If it's true that initial reports indicated she had already stabbed herself in the legs (which apparently didn't happen) that's a pretty big red flag for an officer on scene as well.

I don't think the cops were particularly concerned that she was going to flay them, but concerned for her safety. I really don't think making them out to be tazer happy monsters that scoff at the thought of harming a child is reasonable. I would have to see the whole altercation before I commit to my stance on the incident, but to me tazing an 8 year old is better than her stabbing herself or hitting her with a billy club. Yeah of course they should be able to restrain an 8 year old girl, but if they have to cover a distance of 4 feet or so that's more than enough time for her to plunge the knife. Knife wounds are incredibly dangerous. I believe there was a study done by the FBI that indicated they are typically more deadly than gunshot wounds.

I agree though that tazing is rather risky business if someone is holding a knife and could conceivably fall on the blade.

I just hope the poor thing gets help. It's so messed up when a child feels this desperate (or anyone for that matter).

reply to post by Klassified

I know my opinion here is the unpopular one, but I don't care, it's the truth.
Here on ATS there are ten threads about a bad cop, for every thread of a good one. Not because every officer is human garbage, but because some people here want to believe every cop is evil scum.

I've actually read comments by certain members in other threads stating that all police officers are bad. Are there bad officers? Yeah of course. Just like in every group, of any kind, there are the bad ones. But believe it or not, its a small minority.

In this case, I think they did the right thing given the circumstances. Some people just read "Cop tasers 8 year old" then ignorantly post something based on that alone, just to get a chance to bash another police officer.

If you really look at it, what would you do better?
Most people don't know that the point of the taser isn't to inflict pain, (yes it is painful, but that is either a pro/con depending on the situation) it is meant to disable muscles momentarily. Seems a little insignificant knowing the girl is alive now, doesn't it?

Candy and compliments seems like it would be more enjoyable, but that wouldn't be very effective method to keep a mentally unstable person from injuring her self, would it?

Actually, yes. Yes I do. For a good cop, the system can be a real nightmare at times. I have friends who are cops. And when I think they're wrong, I tell them so.

I have family here in the local PD and know others, 90% of the officers here are good people. There are the troubled ones, but most are very fair and upstanding officers. Usually the the bad ones aren't held very highly by other officers.

reply to post by PLAYERONE01

lol, mate you have no idea what you are talking about.

I think I do have an idea, considering I have a family member who used to have fits when he was a kid, and bite himself till he drew blood, or worse, hurt someone else. Yes, he was strong as an ox. I had to wrestle him down once. Thankfully, only once. I shudder to think what the cops today would have done to him. They probably would have shot and killed him.

I respect your experience in this field, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. At least, from the info provided.

reply to post by seeker1963

Hard to say. I'm wondering if she has mental issues like my family member mentioned above. It amazes me the amount of pain these people can stand to inflict on themselves. It's like they don't feel it.

If she was on drugs, a serious look needs to be taken at her prescription, or whoever is dosing her. Some serious issues there.

reply to post by Klassified

You're telling me none of you guys can handle an 8 year old girl with a knife? You would taser her too? Seriously? Wow. I don't mean any disrespect to any of you. But that just blows my mind. A little psychology would have gone a long way here, and would have saved that little girl the extra trauma she didn't need.

Or a chair or step ladder. How about a push broom, there must be one in the garage. If a police officer can't think of some way to (gently) pin the "dangerous little felon" against the couch or rug with something that can hold her down so that she can be disarmed...

Grow some imagination coppers.

reply to post by iwilliam

I'm also curious how big this girl was. The difference in size between kids at around eight can be pretty extreme sometimes... If she were a big enough kid, and was truly upset, I could see that as being maybe a bit intimidating. It can be hard to block or evade a weapon coming at you.

Im just curious, and I hate to use this analogy, have you ever had to break up two fighting dogs, i mean two dogs that are really going at it, or try to pull a wild cat or small animal that's trapped out of a cage.
If an 8 year old came at you with a knife, screaming, scratching, spitting, biting, kicking, how would you handle it. because I've seen it first hand as a professional. remember you only have a few seconds to react, because,lol, they dont stop just because you grab hold of them.

reply to post by Klassified

Hard to say. I'm wondering if she has mental issues like my family member mentioned above. It amazes me the amount of pain these people can stand to inflict on themselves. It's like they don't feel it.

If she was on drugs, a serious look needs to be taken at her prescription, or whoever is dosing her. Some serious issues there.

Well, as shocked as I am that I didn't realize it from the start, it is definitely something that should be looked into. I am speaking from experience here, not from something I read on the internet......

When you see how doctors are so quick to prescribe drugs to kids who's parents say they can't control them, it is definitely something to think about! Although it is something that those of us on ATS love to debate about, it is also a part of the news story that we most likely will never know...........

reply to post by kx12x

Some people just read "Cop tasers 8 year old" then ignorantly post something based on that alone, just to get a chance to bash another police officer.

I had a strong negative reaction when I read the thread title, it sounds horrible. Then I looked at the totality of the circumstances and realized it was most likely the best approach given the information we have. Not sure if people are just champing at the bit to bash cops, or if they're just to lazy to read and put themselves in the same position as officers. I think it's both.

I would have probably tazed the kid too if the report is on the up and up. Yes, of course I could defend myself against an 8 year old girl. I wouldn't have tazed her for fun or out of fear, I would have tazed her to disrupt her nervous system and snatch the knife so she couldn't kill herself. I'm not a superhero, I don't move faster than a tazer.

Klassified
reply to post by PLAYERONE01

 

lol, mate you have no idea what you are talking about.

I think I do have an idea, considering I have a family member who used to have fits when he was a kid, and bite himself till he drew blood, or worse, hurt someone else. Yes, he was strong as an ox. I had to wrestle him down once. Thankfully, only once. I shudder to think what the cops today would have done to him. They probably would have shot and killed him.

I respect your experience in this field, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. At least, from the info provided.

come on man, the difference between epilepsy and self harm mental issues is like apples and oranges, and I highly doubt the police are going to kill anyone for taking a seizure,that went out in the dark ages.
what i am trying to say is there is far more going on here with this child behind the scenes than anybody realizes. this kid needs a whole lot of help.

reply to post by blamethegreys


I would rather my child get tazed then have them die by their own hand...maybe that's just me though?

These seemingly increasing instances of youngsters getting shot/tazered/beaten by police makes me wonder if those "don't hesitate" targets are being effectively seen in action now?

Here's one of he threads from back in February:
Get a Load of These Police Targets...



Could we now be witnessing the fruits of these desensitization programs in the police force?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Our people in our nation has about 4 out of ten that cannot think anymore.

She does not have the upper body strength at 8 to penetrate her own chest. The cops could have knocked the knife out of her hand with a baton like they did in the good ole days.

She is 8 years old for Gods sake wake up.

intrptr
reply to post by Klassified

 

You're telling me none of you guys can handle an 8 year old girl with a knife? You would taser her too? Seriously? Wow. I don't mean any disrespect to any of you. But that just blows my mind. A little psychology would have gone a long way here, and would have saved that little girl the extra trauma she didn't need.

Or a chair or step ladder. How about a push broom, there must be one in the garage. If a police officer can't think of some way to (gently) pin the "dangerous little felon" against the couch or rug with something that can hold her down so that she can be disarmed...

Grow some imagination coppers.

I don't think you're understanding the situation. I think that's a big problem in this thread. Not trying to be confrontational. They weren't going to be able to pin her with anything without it being blatantly obvious and possibly causing her to stab herself. They didn't taze her to protect themselves, they tazed her to protect her from herself. If you have someone standing on a ledge about to jump you can't just walk up and pin them, they might jump when you start moving at them. Same thing here. Even though she was young, she was more than capable of killing herself if provoked. Again even a 5% chance she would go through with it warranted the tazer.

If there had been no indication of self harm, yeah, pin her ass with a broom or a chair. Or just go in and grab her. The problem was they were most likely (assuredly) having a standoff where it was either said or implied that if they got close she was going to kill herself. If they had an invisible broom perhaps your idea would work.

reply to post by seeker1963


Do you really think that an eight year old girl would (or could) fatally stab herself, much less a grown man, with multiple adults just steps away?

reply to post by OpenMindedRealist

Do you really think that an eight year old girl would (or could) fatally stab herself, much less a grown man, with multiple adults just steps away?

Do a google!! Try typing in "8 year old commits suicide".......

You might be surprised!