Biophotons: The Human Body Emits, Communicates with, and is Made from Light

Bedlam

When you can demonstrate one by measuring some sort of energy emission from chi or chakras, let me know. It's one of those things you have to take on faith, since it doesn't seem to be tangible.

I'd love for you to make chi be true, or a chakra. But if you can't measure it, and you can't reproduce it, and the supposed practitioners can't perform their little chi tricks in a setting they don't control, then it's a lot more like parlor tricks and badly performed magic stunts. (yeah, I know there's a guy who is not only the 'chi master' but also writes pseudo-science papers about himself in his own refereed chi journal - don't bother dragging him out)

They can reproduce it even on a statistical scale so that people now days can use company health care in my country for reiki treatments.

It is all about effecting synchronicity and the placebo effect.

www.reikiken.com...

And the thing about not being noticeable. Last time I had three reiki practioners giving me treatment I had to stop the treatment since my backside got to hot for me to handle since I am a bit sensitive to heat.

Seems your understanding of science is not cutting edge but a few decades old. You do get that the intention to test is changing the experiment and the outcome of the data collected?



On quantum level everything becomes about probability. With the help off chi you are trying to change probability/synchronicity.

And random is not always random. It needs to be checked for fields of synchronious events. Here you have a network of computers looking for those times when random stops being random. What they have done is set up random number generators (RNGs) around the world to see if any spots show synchronous events instead of the normal random.

teilhard.global-mind.org...

LittleByLittle

They can reproduce it even on a statistical scale so that people now days can use company health care in my country for reiki treatments.

It is all about effecting synchronicity and the placebo effect.

Hint - if it doesn't exceed the 'cure' rate of placebo, it's a sham. It is not having any effect.

UK uses homeopathy, too, which is also bogus. I guess if it pacifies the masses, it's pretty cheap to just bottle some tap water and tell you it's a homeopathic cure.

Better yet, you don't really need a reiki practitioner, either, just a nurse with the ability not to laugh - sham Reiki is just as effective as "real" Reiki.

And the thing about not being noticeable. Last time I had three reiki practioners giving me treatment I had to stop the treatment since my backside got to hot for me to handle since I am a bit sensitive to heat.

And three sham reiki practitioners would have got the same effect, because it's the same as what you get with chi - it's self-delusion.

Seems your understanding of science is not cutting edge but a few decades old. You do get that the intention to test is changing the experiment and the outcome of the data collected?

Yet another person who doesn't understand the observer effect. Intention has nothing to do with it. But new agers often try to mis-appropriate the observer effect as some sort of proof that woo is real. Chopra, for instance. Or that piece of dreck "What the @#$@ do we know?" Then they immediately demonstrate they don't understand it by, for example, stating that the observer effect has something to do with intention.

Bedlam

LittleByLittle

They can reproduce it even on a statistical scale so that people now days can use company health care in my country for reiki treatments.

It is all about effecting synchronicity and the placebo effect.

Hint - if it doesn't exceed the 'cure' rate of placebo, it's a sham. It is not having any effect.

UK uses homeopathy, too, which is also bogus. I guess if it pacifies the masses, it's pretty cheap to just bottle some tap water and tell you it's a homeopathic cure.

Better yet, you don't really need a reiki practitioner, either, just a nurse with the ability not to laugh - sham Reiki is just as effective as "real" Reiki.

And the thing about not being noticeable. Last time I had three reiki practioners giving me treatment I had to stop the treatment since my backside got to hot for me to handle since I am a bit sensitive to heat.

And three sham reiki practitioners would have got the same effect, because it's the same as what you get with chi - it's self-delusion.

Seems your understanding of science is not cutting edge but a few decades old. You do get that the intention to test is changing the experiment and the outcome of the data collected?

Yet another person who doesn't understand the observer effect. Intention has nothing to do with it. But new agers often try to mis-appropriate the observer effect as some sort of proof that woo is real. Chopra, for instance. Or that piece of dreck "What the @#$@ do we know?" Then they immediately demonstrate they don't understand it by, for example, stating that the observer effect has something to do with intention.

Believe whatever you want. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks.

LittleByLittle

Believe whatever you want. You cannot teach an old dog new tricks.

I always liked "If you can't measure it, it isn't real", or
"If it fails to defeat the null hypothesis, it probably isn't real either" or
" 'Subtle energy' is another term for bull# "

LittleByLittle

On quantum level everything becomes about probability. With the help off chi you are trying to change probability/synchronicity.

And random is not always random. It needs to be checked for fields of synchronious events. Here you have a network of computers looking for those times when random stops being random. What they have done is set up random number generators (RNGs) around the world to see if any spots show synchronous events instead of the normal random.

Those Dr Quantum videos are total junk. Deeply misleading and non-scientific.

If I have me annadda kid, gonna name em Photon.

reply to post by Bedlam

Photons are an electromagnetic field, so if there are any, then they have to be one.

Chi/chakras don't exist, so they share something with biophotons, in that they are both associated with woo. But in this case, biophotons can actually be detected, even if they're as meaningless as the roar in a seashell.

Chi and chakra have both existed for centuries. It makes sense that they would be closely associated with bioenergetic fields.

AfterInfinity

Chi and chakra have both existed for centuries. It makes sense that they would be closely associated with bioenergetic fields.

If it's the sort of "bioenergetic fields" that can't be measured, then yes, chi, chakras and bioenergetic fields all share a key thing in common.

reply to post by Bedlam


Chi has been measured as a form of biomagnetism via EEG. Chakra can be observed via electrophotonic imaging. Go ahead, look it up.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Chi has been measured as a form of biomagnetism via EEG. Chakra can be observed via electrophotonic imaging. Go ahead, look it up.

EEGs don't measure magnetism. "Electrophotonic imaging" is a new, less baggage laden term for "Kirlian photography", which, like a rose, is still bogus by any other name.

reply to post by Bedlam

EEGs don't measure magnetism. "Electrophotonic imaging" is a new, less baggage laden term for "Kirlian photography", which, like a rose, is still bogus by any other name.

EEG measures electrical activity, which goes hand in hand with magnetism. As for the rest, your opinion doesn't concern me. Believe what you want to believe.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Chi has been measured as a form of biomagnetism via EEG. Chakra can be observed via electrophotonic imaging. Go ahead, look it up.

You cannot prove something to someone who do not want to know due to ego religious convictions. And I call it religion since he is using what he knows about science as a dogmatic belief that he knows everything with no real sense of verifying if it works or not. His whole approach is faith based.

And frankly I have been the same type of person who had no clue and was sure chi/chakra was a trick. The joke was on me. Give it 10-15 years and he will probably know better since his understanding will be the minority instead of the majority.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Bedlam

 

EEGs don't measure magnetism. "Electrophotonic imaging" is a new, less baggage laden term for "Kirlian photography", which, like a rose, is still bogus by any other name.

EEG measures electrical activity, which goes hand in hand with magnetism. As for the rest, your opinion doesn't concern me. Believe what you want to believe.

I believe you wouldn't measure a magnetic field with an EEG anymore than you'd unscrew a Reed-Prince with a rubber hammer, although both are tools. If you were wanting to measure bio-magnetics, you'd use a SQUID, because there just isn't much in the way of a bio-magnetic field.

Kirlian photography measures moisture and outgassing more than anything else. It's not particularly useful. All those neat photos where they tore pieces of leaf off and still saw the whole outline? They forgot to clean the leaf moisture off the plate, and re-used the plate. If you clean the plate or swap the torn leaf to a fresh one, no outline.

LittleByLittle

You cannot prove something to someone who do not want to know due to ego religious convictions. And I call it religion since he is using what he knows about science as a dogmatic belief that he knows everything with no real sense of verifying if it works or not. His whole approach is faith based.

My faith is in instruments. If you can't measure chi, and you can't, then who between us is using faith? Science doesn't need it. It'll work for you, the same way it works for me. If it doesn't, either one of us is doing it wrong, or one of us is mistaken. That's why science works - it's replicable. When it's not replicable, something's wrong. Faith doesn't enter in.

Chi, chakras, reiki, magic bioenergy fields that can't be measured and when tested empirically come out with the same stats as random chance or placebo - that tells you it's not there. It isn't verifiable. It isn't replicable. It isn't measurable. That's what makes it faith or wishful thinking.

We use particle accelerators to understand matter though in reality when matter and anti-matter interact what we get is kinetic energy. Some of that energy is released in the form of heat, visible light and pretty much the rest of the light spectrum (even Gamma). When we collide two protons in a particle accelerator, in parallel the idea is equivalent to smashing two cars together in a front end impact at there maximum speed.


Then trying to figure out how they were constructed based upon the aftermath.



In respect

Psychic ability can only be proven by a test of a population. In this case that test would require a process by which every human being on the planet is tested for same. That in essence would constitute a deductive evaluation of thephenomenon. As an example today we have statistical evidence of the validity of Gravity Theory based upon our evaluation, of what we understand of the Universe.

This being the reason why Gravity Theory is still called a theory.

Bedlam


My faith is in instruments. If you can't measure chi, and you can't, then who between us is using faith? Science doesn't need it. It'll work for you, the same way it works for me. If it doesn't, either one of us is doing it wrong, or one of us is mistaken. That's why science works - it's replicable. When it's not replicable, something's wrong. Faith doesn't enter in.

Chi, chakras, reiki, magic bioenergy fields that can't be measured and when tested empirically come out with the same stats as random chance or placebo - that tells you it's not there. It isn't verifiable. It isn't replicable. It isn't measurable. That's what makes it faith or wishful thinking.

I can see that you hate the placebo effect and also hate synchronicity and want it not to exist. The difference between you and me is that I know it exists and want it quantified and understood scientifically like everything else in existance. No mystery total fact and replicable. If you cannot accept the placebo effect and do not like it and that it exists, then how can you try to understand it and see it you can increase it to save life and suffering. What is more important you hate for placebo effect and faith or the lives a total quantification of how the placebo effect works will save.

With quantification of placebo effect and faith there is no need for dogmatic faith. You are the typical person who say we cannot explain this so we are not researching it. I have in this case I have a more "can do" attitude that say humanity is going to figure this out and understand more from it. And good job for derailing this thread so that no real understanding can be gained in this except that science in the wrong hands can be as dogmatic as religion.

LittleByLittle
I can see that you hate the placebo effect and also hate synchronicity and want it not to exist.

The placebo effect is fine. It tells us that an experiment has failed to defeat the null hypothesis, which is very necessary. You get that when something wasn't true and your hypothesis is wrong. Like, chi exists. If your experiment to prove it exists gives you about the same stats as a placebo, then there is no chi. Sort of like reiki testing. In actual tests, sham and 'real' reiki test at the same effectiveness, thus proving there is nothing to it. In many many tests.

As far as synchronicity goes, there's a term for that too, coincidence. Paired with another one, confirmation bias, it often leads to magical thinking.

The difference between you and me is that I know it exists and want it quantified and understood scientifically like everything else in existance. No mystery total fact and replicable.

Show me it exists. So far, nothing about it rises to a level of certainty that defeats the null hypothesis which is, there is no synchronicity. Before you can quantify it, it has to be measurable and repeatable, so far, bupkes.

If you cannot accept the placebo effect and do not like it and that it exists, then how can you try to understand it and see it you can increase it to save life and suffering. What is more important you hate for placebo effect and faith or the lives a total quantification of how the placebo effect works will save.

If I give you a sugar pill and tell you it's a cure and you feel better, no cure has taken place, you just think it did. That's your placebo effect. It serves the purpose of telling a researcher his hypothesis is incorrect.

You are the typical person who say we cannot explain this so we are not researching it.

I'm the typical person who has done research, and is telling you you are glorifying the indicator that says your research is in error. It's not indicating a wonderful cure, it's telling you that your cure is no better than doing nothing. Lots of research was done, has been done, is being done (sadly) on woo like reiki. And what it tells us is, if a nurse tells a patient she is a Reiki master, waves her hands around and says nonsense magic words, that patient will, on average respond exactly as if a "reiki master" had done their thing. So nonsense is as effective as reiki. And it's been done by a lot of researchers.

And good job for derailing this thread so that no real understanding can be gained in this except that science in the wrong hands can be as dogmatic as religion.

You want to post that you put your index fingers on your temples and imagined Chinese ideograms flying out of your forehead into your dog and he got better, that's skunkworks. In S&T, you are going to be challenged for a bit more rigor.

Spontaneous Remissions at there more conservative estimates are about 1 in 100,000.

There are 7 billion people on this planet.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai


Greetings to All and sorry for my Yoda English.

My opinion is that placebo effect will be at the core of future health sciences, then knowledgeable of the powerful relation between mind and body, exactly for finding no origin for mind in neurobiology, so giving up that approach.

Identifying mind with its real nonphysical nature causes much more cognitive potential difference between it and the body (neural activity), in comparison with the obsolete closer difference.

Then, also, no more attempts will be made to prove the existence of one nature by the other, seeing that evidently absurd. Mind will be acknowledged to exist for its own experiencing, just as we believe physical matter exists.

So we are not beings of light then..just meaning less dark, cold physical bodies that eventually just die, well one could ask WHY the feck would such a existence manifest out of something as hugely magnificent..beyond human comprehension called the universe and possibly others... not to forget inner and extra dimensions that some scientific fields say could very well be a reality... just does not add up..science does not know everything there is to know at present and those claiming it does are the ones to avoid and are in a real danger of going to be proven wrong eventually as new realities start manifesting into the scientific arena..

Those that keep on using the same old scientific rhetoric that we are all just nothing more than atoms ect are really in the premature sleep walking dream that never wakes up..in essence they at present cannot differentiate between the dream and the dreamer.. We are so much more... the occult manifests this reality...