The bleeding house

Ok, this is a bit of "old" news, but to this day, this mystery has not been solved.

www.nytimes.com...

Source of Blood in Atlanta House Still a Mystery AP Published: September 12, 1987 An investigation has determined that human blood found inside a house here does not belong to either occupant, the police said today.

And here is a blog describing a little further information:

www.brownsguides.com...

What these articles do not tell you, is that the blood found in the basement was flowing upwards. This, I am certain, was reported by the Atlanta Journal and Constitution, but I cannot find any of the original articles. (except maybe this one Google Docs )
Any help would be appreciated. And ... Happy Halloween

Thanks, awesome thread I LOVE halloween, have an INTENSE interest in the paranormal, and I live right outside of Atlanta, so this thread was great!

Wish we knew more about what happened though!

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


That's interesting ! To say the least.

We need some history here ATS. We have the names and ages of two persons, one married
couple and a house with an address. That's four separate historys of which I say, need a
good going over. I believe his stuff always has rhyme and reason that usually, translates
to message and meaning. we might also look up some facts connected to type O blood.
Blood is always an evidence of one thing. Guilt. I'm going to do some checking around.

Good one OP !

This rang a bell to me, then I remembered the family in the Amityville haunting incident described black stains covering some of the bathroom fixtures and a red liquid leaking from the keyholes in the doors of the house. This is just one of the more high profile incidences but it seems these physical manifestations of unexplainable liquids have happened a number of times in haunting/poltergeist cases.

In the google document link I posted, there should be a news article claiming that the blood was "seeping through the floor". Also, one of the detectives claimed that the blood was coming from a 'source" but they were not about to tear up the floor to find the source.

I distinctly remember this incident - I am also from Atlanta, and I remember reading the newspaper articles about it at the time. There was a claim that blood was "flowing upwards" from the basement.

I cannot find that information. I remember the speculation and bewilderment of the investigators. It was definitely a head scratcher. One detective claimed that perhaps the kidney dialysis machine had something to do with it (but no one figured out what exactly, or how exactly that could have happened).

reply to post by GeisterFahrer[/url]


Oooo.. spooky.

I suggest, if you haven't, read Rebecca Long's "ATLANTA'S HOUSE OF BLOOD" article in the Electronic Newsletter of the Georgia Skeptics; Volume 7, Number 1 Winter 1994)

For a link with more than just text, read the article here: source (ghosttraveller.com)

Some excerpts:

To investigate the bleeding walls story, several skeptics went to
the Atlanta Police Department's Homicide Division to obtain more
information. Dr. Joe Nickell, Larry Johnson, Rick Moen, and I
discussed the case with Lt. H. Walker, who led the original
investigation. We reviewed the actual police files, including
color photographs of the scene which showed what appeared to be
blood in various rooms of the Winston home. I subsequently
obtained copies of several of the photographs through the Open
Records Act.[/url]

It is concluded that...:

Our discussions with Lt. Walker and our review of the police
records confirmed that the substance was human blood, it was indeed
type O whereas the Winstons were type A, and the police did rule
out the possibility of any violent crime. However, Lt. Walker
definitely did not subscribe to the poltergeist theory. It was his
professional opinion that someone had deliberately splattered the
blood around the house as a hoax.

And the kicker!

According to Lt. Walker, family problems apparently existed which
gave either the Winstons or their children a possible motive for
perpetrating such a hoax. The Winstons conceivably had access to
human blood because Mr. Winston was a kidney dialysis patient,
leading some people to suggest that one or both of the Winstons
might have hoaxed the blood in order to get more attention from
their children. However, Lt. Walker stated that the Winstons'
daughter worked in a hospital and also had access to human blood.
Therefore it has also been hypothesized that the Winstons' children
could have hoaxed the blood in order to have their parents legally
declared incompetent for financial reasons. Because there had been
no homicide, and to spare the Winston family possible additional
embarrassment, the Atlanta Police opted not to further pursue the
investigation.

Well, that was nice of them.

Wraps it up for me, maybe not others.

Regards,

-AA

Well, I am just a layman, and not a detective. But wouldn't it have been prudent to at least check the source of where the family was getting blood from? I mean, it states they had access to blood. Ok?

So, in all fairness, did any of the "professionals" at least attempt to go to where the family had access to blood and see if any Type O blood went missing? If I remember correctly, any place that had blood, had detailed records of the donors.

I am, after all, not a detective. Just a layperson.

So .. this detective decided that since one person in the household was on a kidney dialysis machine, they obviously hoaxed everything. No crime had been committed, supposedly, but if someone had taken Type O blood without authorization ... you have a crime.

Quite a jump if you ask me.

Is it safe to donate blood and what happens during blood donation?

Donating blood is safe and simple. We use only totally sterile disposable blood bags and needles. The actual donation process works like this:

You will complete a donor registration form that includes your name, address and a few other details.

You will be asked a few questions about your health.

You will go through a simple medical checkup including blood pressure, and pulse.

A drop of blood will be obtained from your finger tip to test for Hemoglobin% and your group.

You will proceed to a donor bed where your arm will be cleaned with antiseptic.

During the donation process, you will donate 350ml or 450ml depending on your weight.

After the process is over, you will rest for about 5 minutes.

Following your donation, you will be given a refreshment.

blog.bloodconnect.org...

So ... apparently a person's name, address and other details (like blood type) are recorded and filed.

Hmm.. well, agree to disagree.

GeisterFahrer
Well, I am just a layman, and not a detective. But wouldn't it have been prudent to at least check the source of where the family was getting blood from? I mean, it states they had access to blood. Ok?

Sure it would have. You are absolutely correct. I'm not sure why no one decided to check it out. Apparently, they just opted to.

Because there had been no homicide, and to spare the Winston family possible additional embarrassment, the Atlanta Police opted not to further pursue the investigation.

GeisterFahrer
So .. this detective decided that since one person in the household was on a kidney dialysis machine, they obviously hoaxed everything.

Dr. Joe Nickell, Larry Johnson, Rick Moen, and I discussed the case with Lt. H. Walker, who led the original investigation.

GeisterFahrer
No crime had been committed, supposedly, but if someone had taken Type O blood without authorization ... you have a crime.

One would think so.

GeisterFahrer
Quite a jump if you ask me.

Who knows. Oh, did you read over this part too?

The coincidental and amusing occurrence of my own "bleeding walls"
did provide some useful information. It gave me an opportunity to
compare the blood patterns in the Winstons' home to the pattern
made by a liquid which actually did come from inside a wall. The
"blood" in my bedroom emerged through the paint on the wall,
approximately eight inches below the ceiling, and left streaks
about a foot long as it ran down until it dried (Figure 1). An
intact droplet shape remained at the bottom of each streak. In
contrast, the blood on the walls of the Winstons' home (Figure 2)
showed a pattern of splashing outward from various points of
contact, indicating that it did not emerge from within the walls
but instead was splattered from some distance away.

If you have questions for Rebecca Long, the author of the article, her contact information is in the first link I provided.. if you could get in touch, she could tell you more, I assume.

GeisterFahrer
So ... apparently a person's name, address and other details (like blood type) are recorded and filed.

Probably. Do remember this took place in 87', things may have been different, and may have been different in Georgia.

Regards,

-AA

No, I didn't "forget" to read over that part

"Splattered along the walls" is far different than "seeping through the floors" which is what the archived newspaper article in the OP indicates.

The last time I checked, walls are not considered floors. "Seeping through" also indicates thatthe blood did not have a splatter pattern.

And that isn't even mentioning that the blood splattered walls were in the basement .. and the blood was flowing UP. The main floor had blood seeping through the floor (I readily recall all of this being reported in the news).

But, then again, I am just a layperson.


In 1987, I am pretty sure you could still obtain your vital records .. no? Just not with the ease of the interwebz.

Just to add something here - I have lived in the Atlanta area most of my life. I have never known the APD to dismiss, or drop, a case because they didn't want to embarrass someone


I am fairly certain that Detectives are not stupid ... and, not being stupid, someone checked out the source of where the family was getting blood, and no blood turned up missing. If it were the case that blood did turn up missing, that information would have been made public. I am left with the impression that whatever happened, freaked the detectives out and they wanted no part of it.

I'm not going to say that I unequivocally believe this is evidence of a supernatural presence, however I'm also of the same mindset as the OP. The fact that the police believe it may have been staged isn't proof that it was. There really isn't enough evidence in either of the links or quoted material to make a determination either way.

On one hand we have an elderly couple, we don't know if there's a history of dementia or alzheimers. On the other we don't know anything about the history of the family other than there was some dispute between the parents and adult children. Without the specific facts there isn't enough to go on to make the stretch that one side or the other had some ulterior motive to go so far as to steal blood and stage what could very well be construed as a crime scene.

There are often other circumstances that lead law enforcement to push a causation consistent with the least common denominator i.e. case load, skepticism, political pressures within the department etc.

As someone who tries to keep an open mind knowing that we as humans have only gone so far in the knowledge of our surroundings and that as of yet not one of the brilliant minds walking the planet has proven or disproven the existence of spiritual entities, the counterargument isnt enough for me to dismiss the case outright as it may be for some.

An interesting case study in either possible paranormal activity or vengeful psychological tendencies regardless.

Greetings friend,

GeisterFahrer
No, I didn't "forget" to read over that part

Never said "forget". I just thought that since you referenced Homicide Commander Lieutenant Horace Walker as:

So .. this detective decided that since one person in the household was on a kidney dialysis machine, they obviously hoaxed everything. No crime had been committed, supposedly, but if someone had taken Type O blood without authorization ... you have a crime.

while he led the original investigation. And his name is mentioned in all three of your OP sources.

So all those conclusions, remember, those are words out of his mouth.

If you think there is a conspiracy there- and

"Splattered along the walls" is far different than "seeping through the floors" which is what the archived newspaper article in the OP indicates.

The last time I checked, walls are not considered floors. "Seeping through" also indicates thatthe blood did not have a splatter pattern.

is enough to make you think so- then so be it.

Just to add something here - I have lived in the Atlanta area most of my life. I have never known the APD to dismiss, or drop, a case because they didn't want to embarrass someone

Maybe instead of giving Rebecca Long a ring, you should find Lt. H. Walker? I'm assuming he was a big part of the opting out of further investigation.

Regards, and have a good night,

-AA

I actually would like to ask Lt. Walker about it. If I could find him and not impose this on him.

Kgdetroit
I'm not going to say that I unequivocally believe this is evidence of a supernatural presence, however I'm also of the same mindset as the OP. The fact that the police believe it may have been staged isn't proof that it was. There really isn't enough evidence in either of the links or quoted material to make a determination either way.

I agree with you. But I do believe that since possible motive seems to come from a few different angles, the fact that not one but two people of the household had access to blood (you wouldn't say that's common, would you?), it brings the "HOAX" side of the scale to tip.

On one hand we have an elderly couple, we don't know if there's a history of dementia or alzheimers. On the other we don't know anything about the history of the family other than there was some dispute between the parents and adult children. Without the specific facts there isn't enough to go on to make the stretch that one side or the other had some ulterior motive to go so far as to steal blood and stage what could very well be construed as a crime scene.

I suppose that's true.

As someone who tries to keep an open mind knowing that we as humans have only gone so far in the knowledge of our surroundings and that as of yet not one of the brilliant minds walking the planet has proven or disproven the existence of spiritual entities, the counterargument isnt enough for me to dismiss the case outright as it may be for some.

It's extremely important to keep an open mind. I respect your decision completely. After all, fact is, this event has passed.. it is unarguably impossible to get those fresh blood samples.. State Crime Lab could have really used them...

Director Larry Howard stated that they could have learned much more-sex, race, traces of drugs or alcohol-more easily from fresh blood.The only semi-relevant fact discovered by the Crime lab was that it "looked like the blood was projected out of something or shaken off something.

That's from one of the OP's sources (brownsguides.com).

GeisterFahrer
I actually would like to ask Lt. Walker about it. If I could find him and not impose this on him.

He's probably retired now- it's been almost 20 years since they interviewed him, which was several years after the event. Worth a look though! Good luck.

Regards,

-AA

reply to post by GeisterFahrer

Happy Halloween and thanks for the interesting read.

Although I'm pretty sure, I'd never step a foot in that house. The negative energies must be bouncing off the ceiling.

Which person in their right mind and knowledge of the paranormal would go there?

"Bleeding house you say? Suuuure, let's go check it out.... I wonder what's inside..."




I love reading stories like these, and am looking forward to reading more about the investigation... haven't done any investigation of my own in nearly a year, been too busy with work.

Thanks again. S&F

It's amusing to watch the mental gymnastics some people go through to deny that stuff happens that's just weird and indicative of more weirdness. This stuff happens, get over it. Some might be b.s., but if you read and talk enough, or are lucky enough to have this rare stuff happen to you, then it's not academic... it's da facts.

Now WHAT it means that this happens... that's interesting.

Imagine if the usual scenario is true and you find yourself "dead' one day... how do you manifest bugs, blood or all the other stuff disembodied spirits seem to be able to do? Is there an instruction manual? If you can do that when dead, can you do it when alive? Hmmm...