Debt Ceiling Showdown

Majority Say No

John Boehner: "There may be a back room for secret deals ... but nobody's in it."

Folks, they're doing the poll thing. Obama won't talk. The House of Reps is standing in the pasture like a freshly castrated horse. The Senate has the ball under their arm and they're headed home without a backward glance over their shoulder. TPTB are shooting moms dead in the capitol, closing people off from essential services, embarrassing themselves on the world stage, and alienating their own citizens at every turn.

I am completely shocked the majority polled want our country to default on its debt ... but it looks like it's about to happen ... next week. How am I doing for my first 'doom porn' post?

reply to post by Snarl


You have to ask yourself, who is making all the doom predictions?

The politicians and the media.

Ironically, the same politicians making all the doom porn noise are the same ones that welcomed and wanted a shutdown and a cap on the debt ceiling in 2006.

So which is it?

Are we headed for doom or not?

Obama wanted no ceiling increase in 2006. Would not that have caused doom?

Now he wants a raise in the ceiling to avoid certain doom.

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I think nothing will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised.

I think this is all theatre created to urge the masses to go along with the increase.

If the government defaults and truely shuts down, maybe people will realise that government isn't that important after all, and that people can get along just fine without all their interference.

Just my 2 cents.

I think we all know whats going on ... But it's worse then you think. I have said like most of you that this Shut-Down is a ploy... We're in a fight for currency. The dollars going to collapse and they know it!

Is this a ploy for a New World Currency?? If you can't fight them... Join them?

World Bank Whistleblower and so much more...

If we are headed for doom because of a default, you can assume that it is intended by both sides. The status quo is so easy for TPTB to continue when you take into consideration that all it takes is a bunch of mindless distractions to keep the average american entertained through all of this. Keep the Pepsi flowing, the tv pumping out "mouth gaping" garbage and a slew of adverts tailored to each individual surfer and you can surely keep kicking this can, even uphill!

there are a lot of players in this world that would love nothing better than to see America collapse. and unfortunately, there are Americans going along with that plan

reply to post by beezzer


I agree. ATS should really look into having some sort of awards show for all the doomsayers, lol. Stay tuned, coming up "The DOOM Awards" next on ATS, lol. The award will be a little bronze statue of a mushroom cloud, lol. Think about your acceptance speech.

jimmyx
there are a lot of players in this world that would love nothing better than to see America collapse. and unfortunately, there are Americans going along with that plan

I think there are some americans that are comparing this to the preverbial band-aid on a hairy leg syndrome. Just rip it off already.

reply to post by Snarl


Even though they are small scale, we do have some elections coming up in the next 30 days. I haven't seen much mention of that. But it is significant.

Personally, I don't see why we need to raise the debt ceiling. Being in debt is a problem to most people. It's a issue that needs to be addressed.

Keep the ceiling as is and find ways to reduce spending. Beginning with the "Pork Projects" is the key to setting things right in my opinion.

Look at it this way.

If we have to raise the debt ceiling in order to prevent defaulting on loans, (and we have no plan to decrease our spending) then we are just delaying the default, not stopping it.

We are in default RIGHT NOW

And the world has not ended.
Economies have not blowed up!

The debt ceiling rise is in order to provide more social programs, more government intrusion, more controlling authority, more TSA, more NSA, more DHS, more drones, more wars, more dead and dying, more illegal aliens, more food stamps, more subsidized housing, more welfare, more pork barrel projects, more losses of freedoms, more spying, more government!

reply to post by Snarl


If the debt ceiling is not raised, I am absolutely sure the White House will make every attempt to make life more miserable for us, while continuing to fund and spend on the programs the President wants.

He may suspend social security payments just so that he can go all "stompy feet" and say "look at what the Republicans did!" I would not put anything past this regime.

But, rest assured, China will get their bond payments.

Average Person

Hello Mr Bank Manager,

I have no money, my lifestyle costs exceed my income, but I don't want to work harder to get more money, so I have been funding the excess with my credit card.

My repayments have been building up, so that now my repayments equal my income, but I still want to keep my lifestyle, but I don't want to work any harder for it.

I have taken out other credit cards, and used them too. Now I use some of them to pay the repayment on otherse, and now everything is all at max. Can I have another card to keep this party going.

Bank Manager:

SECURITY!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, there is an option. its called debtors prison!. Or in legal country terms. Nexum! (look it up). However the US and most other countries have been in nexum for a very long time. So what happens when you break your bond? Well your word is you bond, and therefor an oath. Dante stated there is a special level of hell for Oathbreakers.

Well US looks like you're going straight to hell.

Say hi to Greece and Ireland while you're there. As for me, I'm going to Iceland for some sanity!

My personal opinion, and I think a lot of people probably feel this way, is that I am tired of the same old crap. Overspend, go into more debt, raise the debt ceiling while at the same time putting into place some type of long-term plan that republicans and democrats both keep putting off because of fear of losing their positions of power and greed, overspend, go into more debt, raise the debt ceiling....and the cycle continues.

Something has to be done and the only way to do it appears to be shutting the whole monster down. If the economy collapses, it will suck but life will move on and hopefully our children and grandchildren will have a brighter future than what we had. We have put ourselves in this position and it is time to own up to this gargantuan level of fiscal irresponsibility.

If the cost is me losing my job, if the cost is my mother losing her Social Security, if we have to drive on torn up interstate systems, if the cost is hard times, so be it. As long as it is not just the middle class who suffers, but everyone. Bottom line is we as a nation have to spend less than we take in and congress has shown no desire to do this on their own. Overzealous 10 year plans to balance the budget, with all of the projected savings in years 7-10 (when in reality, in year 7 another plan will be passed that kicks the can further down the road), are quite frankly a load of crap.

Perhaps I rant too much, but bring on the fiscal meltdown! I am ready to see change.

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen


problem is, China (and russia) and Japan and Germany and the UK will dump the bonds as soon as word gets out they can't be repaid.

Bond rates will go through the ceiling, and inflation will not be too far behind.

All hail the Weimark US

I don't know what this is about but ,China warns US over debt ceiling as deadlock hits markets - as it happened ?

beezzer
Look at it this way.

If we have to raise the debt ceiling in order to prevent defaulting on loans, (and we have no plan to decrease our spending) then we are just delaying the default, not stopping it.

We are in default RIGHT NOW

And the world has not ended.
Economies have not blowed up!

That's because either A) The house of cards (stock market) hasn't begun to collapse B) Other countries haven't turned their backs on us C) Hyperinflation (this one is an admitted stretch) hasn't set in.

There weren't a lot of folks prepared for the real estate collapse, and we were fortunate that was controlled. I'm also wondering whether or not the insurance industry and banks have the securities everyone rests their assurances on. Why did these even need to be considered, and in some cases rescued, during the bailout. And, afterwards, how could they have recovered so quickly. It's not like everybody and their brother threw their life savings at them to manage.

beezzerThe debt ceiling rise is in order to provide more social programs, more government intrusion, more controlling authority, more TSA, more NSA, more DHS, more drones, more wars, more dead and dying, more illegal aliens, more food stamps, more subsidized housing, more welfare, more pork barrel projects, more losses of freedoms, more spying, more government!

That's a good start at a list of things I could certainly let go of, starting with the Testicle Squeezing Agency (TSA). Why again did we ever need them?

You know, in the long run, at least America can produce enough food for her citizens. The Grapes of Wrath scenario is not one I'd be interested in experiencing first-hand.

reply to post by Snarl


The stock market hasn't collapsed because the Fed keeps pumping billions into it every month (QE Infinity!)
Also, the market is now heavily invested overseas. It's not domestic anymore.

I followed that when I was in Germany because whenever the stock market would go up, the dollar would fall and the euro would jump up.

Seems the big shots in Wall Street have known about this for quite some time.

reply to post by Snarl


We’re not going to default on anything. There is enough revenue coming in to keep the lights on. Notice congress is still getting paid while our parks and services are ceremoniously closed in what is no doubt a political stunt.

I’d be glad if government actually ‘shut down’. All they do is blow WAY TOO MUCH of our money on BS anyway. We should immediately cut funding for congress and use OUR MONEY (taxes) to fund the programs and services designed for the people (for us).

reply to post by Snarl


So what happens if there is a default?

You can look at Iceland for the way it is done correctly.

four principal lessons from the ordeal.

* First, a team of lawyers was put to work to ensure that losses in the banks were not absorbed by the public sector. In the end, the public sector did of course have to step in and ensure the new banks had adequate capital, but it was insulated from vast private sector losses. This was a major achievement.

* Second, the initial focus of the program was exclusively on stabilizing the exchange rate. Here, we reached for unconventional measures, notably capital controls.

* Third, automatic stabilizers were allowed to operate in full during the first year of the program—effectively delaying fiscal adjustment. This helped support the economy at a time of severe strain.

* Fourth, conditionality was streamlined and focused on the key issue at hand—rebuilding the financial sector. While there are some issues in the broader economy where reforms will eventually be needed, these were not a part of the program

Edward Harrison goes on to comment on these points. The orginal article he is commenting about is at the IMF blog HERE: How Iceland Recovered from its Near-Death Experience

Iceland essentially told the Banksters to go pound sand they would not hold their peole hostage for the bankers bad decisions.

JakiusFogg
reply to post by AnonymousCitizen

 

problem is, China (and russia) and Japan and Germany and the UK will dump the bonds as soon as word gets out they can't be repaid.

Bond rates will go through the ceiling, and inflation will not be too far behind.

All hail the Weimark US

If all the big holders start dumping treasuries who's going to buy them? From what I understand most stock and bond fire-sales go for pennies on the dollar. Hyperinflation will finish the dollar as the world reserve currency.

My question is who can ride out this storm the best? China and Russia have been buying gold hand over fist but I don't think even they are going to have enough if the US defaults. That leads me to wonder:

1. Is there a group behind this that can survive a worldwide depression?
2. Is this just a case where the least beat up economy becomes the defacto winner?

reply to post by beezzer


They have, since 1913 as I remember, when the Federal Reserve Act came into Being.

And what fun it has been since.