FBI raids alleged online drug market Silk Road; arrests owner

MystikMushroom
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

That's why I didn't touch ANYTHING when I peered down there. I was sure that 90% of what I was seeing was nothing more than undercover LEO's laying traps. I just couldn't believe that the FBI and others weren't staging stings to catch people. I mean, come on ... there's no way you can hire a hit man over the internet and it be legit.

I felt like I needed a real, physical shower after looking at the deep net.

That's quite naive. There's a lot which goes on on the darknet which is real. All it takes is a little research on it.

Yes, you can hire a hit man online and you can also find much worse. You'd have to go deeper than the top layers of the darknet though.

I'm generally surprised so many on ATS are happy about law enforcement wasting resources on something like SilkRoad when multiple alphabet agencies are involved in bringing the drugs into this country in the first place.

MysticPearl

MystikMushroom
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

That's why I didn't touch ANYTHING when I peered down there. I was sure that 90% of what I was seeing was nothing more than undercover LEO's laying traps. I just couldn't believe that the FBI and others weren't staging stings to catch people. I mean, come on ... there's no way you can hire a hit man over the internet and it be legit.

I felt like I needed a real, physical shower after looking at the deep net.

I'm generally surprised so many on ATS are happy about law enforcement wasting resources on something like SilkRoad when multiple alphabet agencies are involved in bringing the drugs into this country in the first place.

I agree. I find the news to be disconcerting rather than uplifting. However, it's a good wake up call to people who think the onion network is untouchable.

I feel like the TOR community is what the Internet should be, and kind of was at its inception. Sure, people will abuse the freedom for morally bankrupt purposes, but these sites are not where the crimes are occurring.

The Silk Road is only a place where information is exchanged. While it is associated with real life events, it is not the events themselves. If all the transactions within Silk Road still occurred, but no corresponding shipment of real life packages ever happened, no crime would have been committed. So, while the arrest my have been lawful, I don't think the removal of the site itself was.

Any thoughts? I'm no lawyer, just rambling. Also, I'm surprised there aren't many posts in this thread. This is pretty huge!

reply to post by AlliumIslelily


Your surprised there aren't more replies....have you noticed that in the forum generally lately? I was wondering if they were doing MITMA and users are being segregated into separate forums.

Weird how the internet has gone so quiet all of a sudden.

oxford
reply to post by AlliumIslelily

 

Your surprised there aren't more replies....have you noticed that in the forum generally lately? I was wondering if they were doing MITMA and users are being segregated into separate forums.

Weird how the internet has gone so quiet all of a sudden.

MITMA wouldn't prevent the posts from showing though, right? All that would happen would be that the posts would pass by an extra set of eyes. Besides, what's the point of using a MITMA on a public forum? You can just read the posts without having to intercept them.

This is THE largest drug/cash seizure in history. Currently, the bit coin conversion rate is 1 Bit Coin = $102.80 USD. That means they seized the equivalent of $370,080,000 in US dollars.

They're not calling it that, because it legitimizes the Bit Coin. The Bit Coin is the One World Currency......

The silk road prices were way too high anyways, pardon the pun..

Looks like the Feds don't like anyone except themselves selling drugs..

alienreality
The silk road prices were way too high anyways, pardon the pun..

Looks like the Feds don't like anyone except themselves selling drugs..

They also don't like Bitcoin because, like the greenback, it can't be controlled like dollars. This bust wasn't about the drugs as much as it was about Bitcoin.

AlliumIslelily

MysticPearl

MystikMushroom
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

That's why I didn't touch ANYTHING when I peered down there. I was sure that 90% of what I was seeing was nothing more than undercover LEO's laying traps. I just couldn't believe that the FBI and others weren't staging stings to catch people. I mean, come on ... there's no way you can hire a hit man over the internet and it be legit.

I felt like I needed a real, physical shower after looking at the deep net.

I'm generally surprised so many on ATS are happy about law enforcement wasting resources on something like SilkRoad when multiple alphabet agencies are involved in bringing the drugs into this country in the first place.

Any thoughts? I'm no lawyer, just rambling. Also, I'm surprised there aren't many posts in this thread. This is pretty huge!

Maybe people aren't sure what Silk Road is.

Most people buy their 'stuff' face to face. The so called hitmen were mostly (I think 100%) fake anyways.

I think if anything this was more about embarrassment. Remember awhile back when all the news agencies and 'normal' people were talking about the 'deep web' and Silk Road? It looked pretty bad for the feds. Obviously they were aware of it, but public perception seemed to be that Silk Road was foiling the government and making asses of them when in reality it was probably a rather small blip on the radar they weren't all that concerned with. I think most of us figured this was coming. How could it not?

It got too much attention, was in the public eye too long and so needed to be made an example of. I can kind of see why people would say it's about bitcoin but I don't really think it is. Think how many people got curious and downloaded Tor to check it out?

reply to post by Domo1


Yeah, that does make sense. It probably caused a drop in the NSA's ability to monitor for the 'bad guys' (aka Citizens).

Can't have the law abiding people hide what they are doing! Only a matter of time before they make it against the law to hide any interest you have....

Copied from other thread...



I used silkroad for 2 years myself, my state medicinal pot is illegal, but my cardiologist an actual hardcore specialist recommended it for me if I could get it.

Since the shutdown luckily there is another hidden service on for popped up plus there are 3 trustworthy sites on freenet . you can get on freenet with this info: freenetproject.org...

You can search google for silk road alternative for/freenet then type in pastebin to get lists of darknet URLs

Also the hidden wiki has a new alternative up: kpvz7ki2v5agwt35.onion...
Just stay out of the Hard Candy section (wink)

My first order on new site came in yesterday , we have like 2 "mailbox etc " companies In town and they don't require tons of ID to get a drop box account this one wanted proof of name/residency and said they'd accept a utility bill or bank statement so I scanned my power bill then changed the name with Photoshop thanks to Kat.ph :-)

That got me all set up.

So for silk road users don't fret its like the pirate bay it reappears seconds after idiots try and shut it down for years...

hknudzkknexnt
reply to post by hknudzkknexnt

 

There was big sell off of bitcoin a few days ago, but it has bounced back to it original price now. So no crash as yet.

As someone who used to visit the TOR network ( both the Silk Road and others) I can't help but feel that because the Government wasn't getting any tax on the sales they felt it was their 'duty' to close it down.
And yes you could buy drugs, guns and hacking tools on the SR for sale to the public but why should the government be the only ones to have those things?
Oh yeah that's right to protect us from ourselves, erm I mean the terrorists and criminals, erm and I mean not, definitely NOT the ones in Government.
There is no such thing as a free internet in TPTB's eyes, only one that they allow us to have and that is monitored, policed and sanitized.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

You express my own sentiment so well there. A shower. Yes. It's not a joke, is it? It's also impossible to explain why it's not a joke without physically showing someone or waiting for them to return for their own life learning experience. I think that's why I'm almost coy and evasive about questions on TOR and the levels below it.

I can't say there is NOTHING good down there because some corners make Wikileaks look like Barnes and Noble peddling mainstream policy. It's quite a world of crap to find just a few shiny turds tho, isn't it?

Once everything is regulated and controlled through law......there will be no real freedom. There will be no choice.

People are free to do as they wish, including committing crimes. Sad, but necessary to be free. Unfortunately, our liberties are tied via lifeline to these crimes. Eradicate one, you eradicate both.


- SN

AlliumIslelily
So if this information is accurate, I think we can say Tor is not completely compromised. You are secure as long as you use it correctly, which has always been the case. This means journalists in censored countries who use Tor for protection should still be safe as long as they take the proper precautions and don't mess up. Sounds like this guy just got overconfident and slipped up on some of the basic areas of maintaining anonymity.

Excellent point to make. Hopefully there is something of our ability to be somewhat free left.



- SN

needlenight
reply to post by hknudzkknexnt

 

Well.. there goes TOR...

damn.. what else we got?

Hopefully something truly will pick up the torch.




-SN

reply to post by SadistNocturne


I hear ya about freedom and the need for it without Big Brother in our business and down our throats (Dr. Sammy now too, for that matter), still?

There is some real evil and criminal activity in what has generally existed as the Wild West of the Internet. Rules are necessary....

As a matter of fact, and when I think about it? A lot of people lately have quite literally been asking and wondering about life without Government at various levels of anarchy would be like. I'd point to the overall Onion world. That's what it looks like. Some of the best ...along side things that go into the real evil category. I kinda liked the idea of one place free, as well. Totally free. That has been interesting to explore too. It reeks of what's infested it though, as the best way I could put it.

So, it doesn't necessarily bother me to see law enforcement finally in that world. I wouldn't invite them...but I won't complain about the occasional beat cop, so to speak.

The real Wild West was romper room with Quakers by comparison. lol.....

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by SadistNocturne

 

I hear ya about freedom and the need for it without Big Brother in our business and down our throats (Dr. Sammy now too, for that matter), still?

There is some real evil and criminal activity in what has generally existed as the Wild West of the Internet. Rules are necessary....

As a matter of fact, and when I think about it? A lot of people lately have quite literally been asking and wondering about life without Government at various levels of anarchy would be like. I'd point to the overall Onion world. That's what it looks like. Some of the best ...along side things that go into the real evil category. I kinda liked the idea of one place free, as well. Totally free. That has been interesting to explore too. It reeks of what's infested it though, as the best way I could put it.

So, it doesn't necessarily bother me to see law enforcement finally in that world. I wouldn't invite them...but I won't complain about the occasional beat cop, so to speak.

The real Wild West was romper room with Quakers by comparison. lol.....

First of all, let me thank you. For not attacking me and name calling. It's hard when you can see you're views are radically different than someone else, especially behind the "anonymity" of the internet, to not go nuclear and go into assault mode. Thanks


So, do I approve of being able to hire hitmen readily? No. Do I think that within a matter of days to weeks, a new method of being able to hire hitmen, if you truly desire to, will avail itself? Absolutely.

When it comes to drugs, I have a fairly libertarian view on them and their use. I realize that drugs first of all, represent a bigger issue than the drug and it's use to begin with. Purchasing drugs means supporting everything from organized crime, to prostitution, to child labor and sexual abuse, etc, etc, etc. Unfortunately, this is a problem that has existed almost since time immemorial. If we continue with a "war on drugs", I feel that the only result is that all of these things will continue, as the only way to get these drugs will be through contacts that have dealings in this aspect of things.

So, in a nutshell, yes, I believe the war on drugs is perpetuating an already bad and centuries long underworld drug trade. Make it illegal, people will go to illegal means to get what they want, and the end result is almost always far worse. Prohibition perfectly underscored this issue. It can not be swept away by puritanical beliefs administered by those that clearly know what is best for you and your loved ones. Sarcasm intended. As a brief aside, are you aware of the fact that sexual acts (in New Jersey) mired in Masochism / SM / BDSM) are enough to have you placed into a psychiatric ward, as if you as an adult submit to them, you are obviously unfit mentally? Not too far off topic, when it comes to personal liberties and rights. It effects us all.

Whereas I feel that "natural" drugs are far safer than even alcohol, which in itself is a manmade drug (like cigarettes, and coffee) and don't personally condone the use of harsher drugs like heroin or coc aine or oxycodone (or even that icky new Krokodil from Russia...christ, read up on that sometime), I am of the opinion that if the person is only harming themselves, if that is what they actually desire, as an adult, they should be allowed to do it. There are plenty of working and highly professionally functional (not to mention highly paid) people who are functioning heroin addicts. It is how they've chosen to live their life. I personally feel that if it does not harm another person, who am I to say they cannot do it? I realize we are taught to "just say no" (Thanks Nancy) and that "drugs" are bad, and that many folks simply won't agree with me. But, this is how I feel. And I believe alot of other libertarian minded people would agree.

Now, do I think it should be handled any differently than alcohol when it comes to age restrictions and driving motor vehicles (or even on the job issues, such as operating heavy machinery, working on an oil rig, etc). As long as they're quirks don't harm anyone else, and that is overseen by society, then I believe it should be allowed.

Now, on to Silk Road. Unfortunately, more things than drugs are available here. Yes, you can also get hitmen here as well. This is overtly negative. However, I believe (and know) that Silk Road offered more. It offered a manner of obtaining books banned by your country. It offered religious materials where they were outlawed. I feel that these things cannot be overlooked as being positive. So therefore, I do not feel this can be dismissed as simply being a "evil drug / den of violence". In all reality, it is a conduit to personal freedom and liberties, IMHO. Imperfect, but given today's world, if imperfect is the best we can get, then I say we need to take it.

Decriminalize drugs. Allow FDA approved manufacturers to create and sell them, therefore creating a federally mandated and regulated product. Of course, this would also involve quality control, so for instance "bad" batches of '___' should or the like should never hit the market, or even the streets. Guess what, crime involved from the manufacture, distribution, and sale of drugs will go away. It may take awhile, but eventually the legitimate market will overpower the criminal. I also see an early plume in usage occuring, say one two generations, max. But, after that, I *firmly* believe that it will lose it's taboo aspect, people that are obviously self medicating will look to seek out more formal and better forms of medication for their problems. It won't be the cool, anti-establishment thing to do for teenagers. It will simply lose much of it's appeal. Also, let's not forget about taxation. For instance, marijuana is an incredibly hardy plant. It has been said that all you have to do is drop seeds throughout a field, either provide water or be in an environment that gets appropriate rain fall, and you'll have a more than sufficient crop. Therefore, the cost to bring it to market is relatively low. Keep the price low, but tax the heck out of it. Right now, am 1/8th of an ounce is approx $80-100. It might only cost about $5-10 to bring it to market. Sell it taxed at a price of $60, and you've just made 500% profit.

With our current situation, much like the NSA spying on American civilians as well as spying on foreign nationals, this is obvious and intentional scope creep. Unless I am mistaken, the law was clearly spelled out that the NSA was not supposed to be spying on American civilians. Yet they do. I see this as being no different from the situation with the DEA and the FBI cracking down on and taking down Silk Road. "We have the power, and we will use it. You aren't paying your taxes on these sales, so we are going to eliminate you." Whereas the FBI and DEA are not breaking the law by doing what they are doing, they might as well be. They are breaking the law of our freedom and liberty, IMHO.

I lament the loss of Silk Road as an option. Not one that I currently would look to use, but having options is always better than not having options.



- SN

PS - for sake of argument and disclosure, I only drink occasionally, and do not purchase any illegal drugs for personal use.

reply to post by SadistNocturne


First, the feeling is mutual on the civil debate despite differences on the topic. I'm not sure how far off we are though. I liken them to a beat cop now because a beat cop sees only a small % and then, can act on only some of that. They are in TOR. Okay. It's good to have that confirmed.....but what has really changed?

As you note, Silk Road was offering some things over any line of society and if they hadn't been, how much work would have been justifiable to bring them down? Seriously, this had a major downside for them too. This made TOR a household "Huh? What's that??" Where it had not necessarily been that before.

Nothing about tracking people down there has gotten any easier today than it was yesterday. It's still half a step from fantasy to achieve it for the sheer digital physics of how the whole thing operates. Having said that....it's now obvious that any slight mistake in what makes TOR effective, including user error, will make illegal (TRUE hardcore) illegal activity something that just isn't safe enough to do.

That's a good thing when it's a pretty short list of what the FBI would consider worth the sheer effort required to attack something down in the mist and ether. That's my opinion anyway. FBI Agents may be go getters and then, they may not be. FBI Managers are bean counting goobers ...and that works to our benefit more than not, I think.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by SadistNocturne

 

First, the feeling is mutual on the civil debate despite differences on the topic. I'm not sure how far off we are though. I liken them to a beat cop now because a beat cop sees only a small % and then, can act on only some of that. They are in TOR. Okay. It's good to have that confirmed.....but what has really changed?

As you note, Silk Road was offering some things over any line of society and if they hadn't been, how much work would have been justifiable to bring them down? Seriously, this had a major downside for them too. This made TOR a household "Huh? What's that??" Where it had not necessarily been that before.

Nothing about tracking people down there has gotten any easier today than it was yesterday. It's still half a step from fantasy to achieve it for the sheer digital physics of how the whole thing operates. Having said that....it's now obvious that any slight mistake in what makes TOR effective, including user error, will make illegal (TRUE hardcore) illegal activity something that just isn't safe enough to do.

That's a good thing when it's a pretty short list of what the FBI would consider worth the sheer effort required to attack something down in the mist and ether. That's my opinion anyway. FBI Agents may be go getters and then, they may not be. FBI Managers are bean counting goobers ...and that works to our benefit more than not, I think.

Reading your post, I feel I need to clarify one point of my stance.

Where I lament the shutdown of Silk Road, it is not that "TOR is dead" or that another Silk Road cannot spring up. Rather, that the alphabet agencies have taken notice, and are actively targeting it, where before, this was not the case.

Nothing else has changed, other than the fact that now you truly have to be concerned that you could be dealing with an undercover agent. I feel that they will be as omnipresent as the CIA desk at the CNN newsroom. This, to me, is a deterrent. I was shortsided or deluded into not contemplating this eventuality. It just saddens me, that's all.


- SN