Government Shutdown Appears to Be A Go

CALGARIAN
If the US Gov't shuts-down due to no vote on debt ceiling today, that makes means the 50 million people on Food-Stamps won't get their cards, the millions on Gov't Medic-aid won't get their prescriptions and military won't get their pay-cheques. That's just to start! Place will go bonkers!

essential services will still be intact, like active duty military, but that's because their contract reads that they will agree to work for free in the event the gov can't pay them. the people who didn't agree to work for free, are being laid off without pay. not sure on veteran's disability and welfare, for example. but i know dept of defense is getting laid off tomorrow.

the problem with not paying active duty military and dod employees is, that they still have to pay their bills. and part of their job requirements is that they maintain stellar credit ratings. you can't maintain a stellar credit rating if you can't pay your bills. this whole thing is fraught with problems.

reply to post by CALGARIAN


I don't think it will happen... If the people who are dependent on the system do not get their food stamps, their is going to be a big rise in crime. That is a elementary conclusion, and their are enough historical statistics to make this a pretty sound hypothesis. Colorado is going to get hit hard there is allot of Federal government jobs out there. Anything dependent on federal funding is going to feel the pinch, its that simple..

Yet as I have been echoing the PEOPLE, are the ones that are going to hurt, from this, not the politicians, responsible for this madness, this is all about POWER, lets not forget, Obama care is a very controversial Federal law, that is debatable about being constitutional or not, so maybe shutting down the system, is what is needed in order to get the attention of the Democrats, the democrats are the ones that do not want to deal, and the passage of Obama care is also questionable about even being lawful. Meh, I am no civics scholar, but I remember, them voting over and over again, until it passed, and it was at like midnight on some day in December..

I have never seen anything like that before.. Lets not forget, healthcare will be a law, and will be a mandate, and punishable by LAW, if you do not have health insurance...

Is that constitutional?

Its a mandate..

Yet you also have to understand, people with pre-conditioned symptoms, are being refused insurance etc. but this wide stroke is interesting.. I have been alive long enough to know whatever the Federal government tries to fix, they usually break.. Oh and in a couple years if you do not have health insurance you can be fined 600 dollars, and or goto jail..

So lets look at the big, picture before we just start, throwing darts at this story without understanding what is going on..

In a couple years you can be a criminal for not having health insurance.. LOL

A criminal with a record...

I live right outside the main gate of Ft Knox. Ft Knox public affairs office issued a bulletin today that said the same thing. OH and they are not sure yet if the soldiers will get paid (that amendment is not yet passed). It will affect 5000 civilian workers and 9500 soldiers in my community. Sad sad sad.

reply to post by undo


ACTUALLY the active duty military soldiers contract states they will not be put in NO PAY STATUS while on active duty. That was on our news today here at Ft Knox. They are breaching a contract by not paying them. IT IS BS!

Bicent76
reply to post by CALGARIAN

 

I don't think it will happen... If the people who are dependent on the system do not get their food stamps, their is going to be a big rise in crime. That is a elementary conclusion, and their are enough historical statistics to make this a pretty sound hypothesis. Colorado is going to get hit hard there is allot of Federal government jobs out there. Anything dependent on federal funding is going to feel the pinch, its that simple..

People with food stamps will not be affected by a shutdown. Food stamps are state government not federal.

k21968
reply to post by undo

 

ACTUALLY the active duty military soldiers contract states they will not be put in NO PAY STATUS while on active duty. That was on our news today here at Ft Knox. They are breaching a contract by not paying them. IT IS BS!

ahh that's good to know. i hate to think of the conundrum it would produce, to demand they function without the means to pay their bills and then punish them for not having fantastic credit ratings. i know this will effect the dod employees.

reply to post by k21968


I think the USDA, would argue with you about that...

reply to post by undo


Oh but they did it once before in 95-96. My hubby was active duty and we seriously screwed our credit up bad for that 26 days. We couldnt pay our bills. Everything was late. They can take their pay....they just are not supposed to.

Bicent76
reply to post by k21968

 

I think the USDA, would argue with you about that...

The Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, known as WIC, could shut down. The program provides supplemental food, health care referrals and nutrition education for pregnant women, mothers and their children.
School lunches and breakfasts would continue to be served, and food stamps, known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, would continue to be distributed. But several smaller feeding programs would not have the money to operate.

FROM here....Shutdown FAQ's

reply to post by k21968


we will just have to wait and see, but snap is 100 percent fed with federal assistance, and the administration costs are 50/50 for state and federal government.. I would not trust what the MSM says COULD happen...


here is a link FACTS

Bicent76

it is beginning to appear like their is no peaceful way to fix it, what I mean by that is something like a strike, or refusal to buy gas etc. something where it can cause a negative effect..

Actually the truckers are all planning a 72 hr strike October 11th. All trucks will stop where they are and not move for 72 hours. Those close to the capital will apparently be parking there.

People have had enough.

As a personal note, I believe the only fair way to have a government shut down is to keep the military active and paid while shutting down everything else, food stamps and everything. No offence to the civilians with federal jobs. Politicians should be the last to be paid.

God how I tire of whiny people. "Oh no, will I still get food stamps!?" "My husband is in the Army, will our credit suffer!?" "I'm going to be furloughed, I won't be able to pay my bills!!"

Noone cares. Not. One. Person. If you are on food stamps, grow a garden and hunt. Better yet, work...or work harder. I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. Neither does anyone else...even though they won't admit it.

I have zero sympathy for the armed service people either. You signed a contract to work. All relevant data on your pay should a government shut down happen was all in the fine print. Now, We The People are supposed to feel sorry for you because you were stupid enough to sign up!? Wah!

You're a Federal employee? Ya get zero sympathy as well. You already get far higher pay than someone doing the same work as you in the private sector. You work directly with, and are a part of the big problem. Besides, all you're bitching is useless considering you'll just file for unemployment in your home state anyway.

I make only $18k per year and can support myself, my girl, and my two ferrets, without government help. The idea that a household needs $50k a year to make ends meet is preposterous.
Perhaps people need to learn how to live within their means instead of buying that house and needing 3 vehicles, 2.1 kids, a dog, and a white picket fence.

This country literally seems to have very few REAL men left. I don't recall reading about Americans whining during the Dust Bowl, WW1, The crash of 1929, etc. People just did what they had to do.
Its no wonder I'm an introvert...who the hell would want to talk to any of the jack-wagons living in this wussified country full of people who think the world owes them anything.

I can't wait for TPTB to cull the heard a bit. The gene pool is almost beyond repair as it is.

Don't bother flaming for my reply....I just don't care, and won't respect your point of view anyway

reply to post by Honestabe28

I know is that people who work for the government will not be paid. 

If they do that for one year wouldn't that bring back the government debt for about 50%?

The Republicans who are hell-bent on causing this are absolutely insane. Somehow they think a government shutdown is the answer? It most definitely is not. What would the Republicans say if the Democrats threatened some drastic action because they didn't agree with their politics? It is ALWAYS a double-standard with Republicans. I have long been convinced that these people are not only the most gullible in America, but the most simple-minded, who are unable to not only think for themselves, but who lack all sense of compassion for other human beings. The vast majority of your racists belong to this party, and that is enough said.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Last I checked, it takes two to tango.

Democrats didn't even bother to come in Sunday, but hey nothing changes for them to hell with the rest of the country.

Republicans are making excellent points backed by FACTS.

All the democrats can do is resort to name calling? Please.

Indigo5

Em2013
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Could you possibly explain to me why we'd lose $1.5bn/day? Is this from figures taken from tax dollars used to pay government staff which in turn uses that money to pay for goods and services? If so, does that really count as a loss? More like savings to me.

You can google costs of Government shut down..

Interest accrued for delayed payments.
Cost of shuttering and then re-opening all government operations, national parks etc.
Loss revenue in tourism..admission fees to parks etc.
Contingency planning and lost user fees.
Many (not all) military contractors have contingency clauses that insulate them from these things and assign additional costs for shut-down/start-up expenses as well.

The list goes on..

This isn't partisan numbers...the costs of government shut down have been run exhaustively in prior shut-downs, by both non-partisan orgs and the left and the right.

The OMB concluded that the 1996 shut-down cost Gov. an additional 1.4 Billion per day...about 2 Billion in todays dollars.

I see, I didn't know that. Thank you for that valuable information! It's upsetting to see such a loss and yet the Republicans said yes to everything but no to Obamacare, yet the Liberals would rather see the country suffer and of course I'm betting $10 that the media will blame the Republicans for this shutdown. Here's hoping Obamacare gets thrown into the trash.

reply to post by imasheep


this seems to be the problem:

the retired military were guaranteed retirement pay after 20 years.
if they were disabled during service, they were guaranteed disability pay.
if after 20 years, they retired, they had a better chance at a job in the dod.
so alot of the people who will go without pay starting tomorrow, are vets, many
of them with various disabilities, who take a cut in pay already because their
disability amount is calculated into the dod pay, so the dod doesn't have to
pay them as much.

that amounts to the breaking of several contracts. i dunno about you, but when i do work for someone under contract, i expect them to pay what they agreed to. don't you?

0bserver1
reply to post by Honestabe28

 

I know is that people who work for the government will not be paid. 

If they do that for one year wouldn't that bring back the government debt for about 50%?

I really hope I am not reading this statement correctly. Are you saying you think it would be a good thing to not pay our civilian workers for a year to reduce the debt???? These folks are mostly veterans who have earned the right to their jobs and have a right to their pay the same as you and I. This statement is ludicrous.

If you really feel that way, you can donate your salary to reducing the debt?

These folks have families, families who need to EAT the same as you and I.

How about if our elected officials including the President give up their salaries for a year. That would go a LONG way to reducing the debt.

JiggyPotamus
The Republicans who are hell-bent on causing this are absolutely insane. Somehow they think a government shutdown is the answer? It most definitely is not. What would the Republicans say if the Democrats threatened some drastic action because they didn't agree with their politics? It is ALWAYS a double-standard with Republicans. I have long been convinced that these people are not only the most gullible in America, but the most simple-minded, who are unable to not only think for themselves, but who lack all sense of compassion for other human beings. The vast majority of your racists belong to this party, and that is enough said.

Tell me what exactly is so "insane" about a government shutdown though? I mean, if the government just doesn't have enough money to keep national parks open, I have a few suggestions.

1.) Cease funding the unconstitutional NSA program that spies on American citizens clearly violating Constitutional law thus making it an illegal action to begin with. Our tax dollars are being spent on this but they are going to close national parks?

2.) Ask the DHS to buy 1 billion less hollow point bullets, 5 thousand less AR-15s and 3 thousand less armored vehicles. While you're at it, it's probably safe to tell the IRS they don't need semi automatic weapons as a branch of the non governmental federal reserve.

3.) Stop funding known terrorist groups such as the rebels in Syria, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and any other radical muslim extremist group that happens to fit into the buddy plan at any given month, that should save a few bucks no?

4.) Scale down the police force in low crime urban areas. Yeah, I know, way too many middle school kids won't get their smoking tickets and I may be able to drive 4 blocks without getting a seat belt ticket but by God, sometimes when you have to tighten your belt, you have to let some of those hardened criminals go.

5.) Think about the reason you have the CIA, FBI, DHS, NSA, ATF, TSA and all the branches thereof, I kind of feel like some of these agencies haven't exactly proven their financial worth, cough...... 8.1 billion dollars a year but hasn't caught one terrorist...... cough, TSA...... cough.

6.) Cut foreign aid, a government "shutdown" means we can't afford to provide foreign aid, which in most cases we shouldn't be giving anyway because it's not the governments money to give, it's ours and I don't recall the people approving it. Oh, the senators approved it? Thats probably because they don't (really) have constituents, do they?

7.) Discontinue the phoney war on drugs. It's asinine, ineffective and has been a complete and abysmal failure from start to finish at a terrible and unthinkable cost to America. Stop it, now.

8.) STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE! Where is my congressman when I am short on my mortgage? Can I count on a bailout? When I spend money I don't have, they take my house, my car, put me on the street and I eat out of dumpsters, should be no different for this country. Spend what you have and if you don't have it, stop spending, period.

Thats just to start with. Whats insane to me personally is you even associating this fiasco as a republican or democrat issue. This is an issue with our government being completely and wildly out of control in every sense of the word. It should've shut down a decade ago and not reopened until they had somebody with a shred of common sense who understands you don't continue to spend money you don't have until everyone that lives in your country is broke and desperate. It's not that hard a concept.

Are you saying you think it would be a good thing to not pay our civilian workers for a year to reduce the debt???? These folks are mostly veterans who have earned the right to their jobs and have a right to their pay the same as you and I.

reply to post by k21968


Why do you think most are veterans? I've worked around and in the military since 1986, majority were never in the military. Even the contractors have I high percentage of people that were never in the military. They hire their friends and relatives over veterans.

Across the federal workforce of approximately 2 million employees, about 27.3 percent are veterans, according to new figures for fiscal 2011 from the Office of Personnel Management. More than a quarter of the veteran employees are disabled, according to the OPM.

site link

The above, they are talking about the furlough and the federal employees it would possibly affect. I have some of my own documentation about the contractors.

More than two out of five of the approximately 800,000 Department of Defense employees facing furloughs are veterans, Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said Wednesday. “Forty-four percent of them are veterans,” Carter told the House Armed Services Committee during a hearing on the potential effect of sequestration on the military. ”Very soon we’re going to have to furlough the great majority of them.”